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  1. Andre o Botelho's Avatar
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       #1  
    I could begin development but dont know if worths the work.
    Last edited by Andre o Botelho; 05-10-2013 at 12:57 PM. Reason: fixed wrong typing on PC, posted on lumia 620...
  2. Microsoftjunkie's Avatar
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    #2  
    I'd be interested, definitely. I know others would be too. If the emulator runs good with descent frame rate. I'd be willing to pay.
  3. wpn00b's Avatar
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    #3  
    Heck yes. Its worth it to me. I'd pay a small amount as well if priced reasonably as a thanks.
  4. jeff920's Avatar
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    #4  
    I'd definitely buy it.
  5. Andre o Botelho's Avatar
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoftjunkie View Post
    I'd be interested, definitely. I know others would be too. If the emulator runs good with descent frame rate. I'd be willing to pay.
    The main problem with windows phones is tha lack of support to recompilation(JIT) so it may run great on 2D games, playable with some 2.5 and 3d Games but full 3D games may be too slow to be playable. I've made a simple port and it Crash 3 runs at 15~20 FPS, its playable but it is not using any ARM code, what can make it faster but will give a little of work(I own a lumia 620 so on a 920 it can run better). That is why I've created this thread .
  6. DennisvdG's Avatar
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    #6  
    Yes I would definitely buy it, I would like a n64 emulator even more :)
  7. MervinLP's Avatar
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    #7  
    I would pay money for one if it ran efficiently. Also, yes an n64 emulator please.
    jtanigawa likes this.
  8. Kellzea's Avatar
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    #8  
    Shut up and take my money!
  9. Kevin N Smith's Avatar
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    #9  
    +1 on N64 emu.
    Rory Boyes likes this.
  10. Kellzea's Avatar
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    #10  
    Seriously though. Psx emulator is probably my most wanted app.

    Ffvii and oddworld on mah fone!!!!!
    jtanigawa likes this.
  11. jtanigawa's Avatar
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    #11  
    Been waiting awhile for this as I personally consider it a must have for the games section of an ecosystem. If it runs great on Lumia 720 and above I too would definitely pay money for this! Consistent support and good reviews would also be great!
  12. WhippedKream's Avatar
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    #12  
    Damn, this sounds like a good idea! But I do rather it on my computer. But with the moga controllers that came out, it'd be nice to see the capabilities of windows phone being pushed to it's max! :)
  13. mase123987's Avatar
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    #13  
    PSX and N64 Emulators are cool but have to be compatible with a controller of some sort. I have tried without a control on Android and that is a nightmare!
    WhippedKream likes this.
  14. Andre o Botelho's Avatar
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       #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by mase123987 View Post
    PSX and N64 Emulators are cool but have to be compatible with a controller of some sort. I have tried without a control on Android and that is a nightmare!
    Windows Phone doesn't support ANY control as long as I know.
  15. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre o Botelho View Post
    Windows Phone doesn't support ANY control as long as I know.
    Doesn't the MOGA controller work? MOGA SDK available, SNES and Gameboy Advance emulators to support Pro controller | Windows Phone Central

    Also, yes please! I also want an emulator for both N64 and Dreamcast. But, one can dream :)
  16. Onslaughta's Avatar
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    #16  
    Yes please!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  17. mase123987's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingTraveler View Post
    Doesn't the MOGA controller work? MOGA SDK available, SNES and Gameboy Advance emulators to support Pro controller | Windows Phone Central

    Also, yes please! I also want an emulator for both N64 and Dreamcast. But, one can dream :)
    This is actually what I was thinking of when I made my past comment.
  18. Andre o Botelho's Avatar
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       #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by mase123987 View Post
    This is actually what I was thinking of when I made my past comment.
    Not everyone have this(neither I ^^) but it will be on todo list. Hope MS will support Bluetooth HID on next update...
  19. DiegoGee's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre o Botelho View Post
    I could begin development but dont know if worths the work.
    Gosh, that would be... I could kiss if you somehow pulled it off. But, I understand that it will be a hell amount of work to get a PS1 Emulator working on a windows phone, and to make it even close to decent. Although, if you got it working at a smooth frame rate, I'd actually be willing to pay much more than the other emulators, and I'm saying maybe even twenty dollars or more.
    Maybe its even impossible to do that though. Maybe you should do something like a GBA emulator, but for lower phones than 920? I don't know, I'm just throwing around ideas. The N64 emulator idea sounds great, I'd pay for that, hopefully you can get whatever you make with smooth gameplay. Good luck!
  20. Rory Boyes's Avatar
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    #20  
    +1 on an n64 emulator if any one hears any news on that let me know!
  21. link68759's Avatar
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    #21  
    This confuses me, 20FPS? The HD2 could run most games @ 60FPS. Is the available instruction set / coding language REALLY that inefficient and terrible, that a phone from 2009 with lesser hardware can outpace what we have today?
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
  22. EdSherriff's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre o Botelho View Post
    The main problem with windows phones is tha lack of support to recompilation(JIT) so it may run great on 2D games, playable with some 2.5 and 3d Games but full 3D games may be too slow to be playable. I've made a simple port and it Crash 3 runs at 15~20 FPS, its playable but it is not using any ARM code, what can make it faster but will give a little of work(I own a lumia 620 so on a 920 it can run better). That is why I've created this thread .
    Hey OP I have a bit of experience with emulator development, so maybe I can offer some helpful advice.

    Firstly regarding JIT there is allegedly a way to access the VirtualProtect() function you'd need to make data executable. I posted about it on these forums. Have you tried that in C++? it still isn't known if this technique will "pass the censors" either, if you go down this route it may be better to submit a small test app first that does something mundane while using this code.

    The second option is of course an assembly interpreter which is entirely feasible and above board store wise but obviously a lot of work. I would suggest starting small by converting your most heavily used leaf functions. You can profile the code to find these but you can usually guess what they'll be. Functions to decode CPU addressing modes are the first things that spring to my mind.

    Third you can also make use of ARM Neon intrinsics to vectorise code into native SIMD. While VS2012 can auto vectorise (for x86 at least), it can be annoying to re-write all your loops to get it to work.
    Last edited by EdSherriff; 06-23-2013 at 07:54 AM.
  23. juanitoriv's Avatar
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    #23  
    Yes please
  24. EdSherriff's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by link68759 View Post
    This confuses me, 20FPS? The HD2 could run most games @ 60FPS. Is the available instruction set / coding language REALLY that inefficient and terrible, that a phone from 2009 with lesser hardware can outpace what we have today?
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    Just to clarify for those less knowledgeable in software development why exactly WP is so hard to develop emulators for vs Android...

    Every emulator works by converting machine code instructions written for one system into another code, usually this is to the native instruction set of the platform the emulator is running on. So essentially a WP8 PS1 emulator is trying to convert MIPS instructions and calls to the PS1 BIOS into ARM machine code and DirectX calls. The simplest way to do this is an interpreter, it reads an instruction from the game's code then attempts to decode it, in the simplest case this would be a gigantic switch statement in C code.

    Unfortunately this is very slow, many native instructions are being executed for a single game instruction. Many of these are caused by the overhead introduced by using a high level language like C. So the next step we can do is re-write our interpreter in native assembly language and get access to some instructions that may be available on our platform's CPU but not directly accessible from C code. However there will still be many more instructions executed per emulated instruction and needless to say writing a massive program in assembly language is not trivial, nor can it be ported to other architectures (e.g. x86 to ARM).

    The final step which is actually so powerful that you can often skip using assembly and go straight for a C program is dynamic binary translation (also known as dynamic recompilation/dynarec or JIT/Just in Time compilation). In this case the emulator still has an interpreter but the emulator dynamically profiles the code, recording how often certain sections are run. The emulator also stores the eventual output of the interpreter (native machine code instructions). When the emulator detects it has run a piece of code before, it can skip the interpretter and just pull the stored native code from memory and execute that. The end result is a massive performance increase.

    To give you some perspective. On a PC emulators for 8-bit systems like NES or SMS can be written using C, C++ or C# interpretters. 16-bit systems like SNES and Megadrive usually use assembly code interpreters. Anything newer like PS-1 has always used dynamic binary translation/dynarec to get the required performance.

    Problem is that WinRT and WP8 apps cannot use dynarec because this technique requires that the program use self-modifying code. Why is this? It just so happens that self-modifying code is commonly used by viruses to conceal themselves. Android and jailbroken iphones allow self modifying code to be executed.

    EDIT: I'm updating this post to reflect a minor breakthrough achieved for emulation on WP8. I neglected to mention there is a technique that falls in between pure interpretative emulation and dynamic binary translation called "threaded interpretation". In this method when an instruction is run by the interpreter the emulator caches a pointer to the decoded interpreter instruction. When it encounters that instruction again (i.e. the program counter address matches) the emulator can retrieve the pointer and jump directly to the decode instruction, the intervening series of operations to decode the instruction is avoided. In theory at least no self-modifying code is required since the emulator is just calling code that already existed elsewhere in the program. N.B. The technique is called "threaded" because it is essentially generating threaded code, not because it is multi-threaded.

    What does this mean in terms of performance? Well it's still not going to be as fast as dynamic binary translation, because the emulator is still having to jump around the program every instruction as opposed to executing a big block of native code stored in memory. However this difference is extremely small in comparison to the gain over a traditional interpreter. Will it work on WP8? We don't know yet but Andre is trying this technique out on emiPSX so we'll have to see what happens...

    TLDR WP8 cannot emulate games at the same speed as the same hardware running Android. But we may be able to get close...
    Last edited by EdSherriff; 07-29-2013 at 03:58 PM.
  25. Ebira's Avatar
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    #25  
    Definitely, I'll BUY it......please make this emulator.
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