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  1. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #26  
    In the end this will come down to ecosystem and compatibility. Blackberry doesn't really have an ecosystem per say at least not like Apple and Microsoft do. If BB wants to compete it has to develop an ecosystem or remain highly compatible with iPhone, Android, and Microsoft ecosystems. How will all of this integrate, how easy will it be to use and how interested will the other OS's be in assisting with integration. To me the big thing about BB for me when I had one was the qwerty for emails. Will not having a hardware keyboard kill BB10? I think that is the question we need to be asking. My Mother in Law still has a BB from her work she has to turn it in soon she is retiring. I got her on a L920 she loves the device and the OS because of its simplicity. What she does miss is the hardware keyboard.
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  2. Ferrarifan123's Avatar
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    #27  
    http://www.change.org/petitions/goog...-windows-phone

    Sign this petition to get Google apps on WP8

    As for the main point stated, I think BB10 will be the 4th place group, but by then, iOS and android would have significant drops in their marketshares. I saw BB10 and think that it's better than android. However, I prefer WP8.
  3. crazeee's Avatar
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    #28  
    Regardless, I think we will have a much clearer idea this time next year.
    snowmutt likes this.
  4. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blake View Post
    In the end this will come down to ecosystem and compatibility. Blackberry doesn't really have an ecosystem per say at least not like Apple and Microsoft do. If BB wants to compete it has to develop an ecosystem or remain highly compatible with iPhone, Android, and Microsoft ecosystems. How will all of this integrate, how easy will it be to use and how interested will the other OS's be in assisting with integration. To me the big thing about BB for me when I had one was the qwerty for emails. Will not having a hardware keyboard kill BB10? I think that is the question we need to be asking. My Mother in Law still has a BB from her work she has to turn it in soon she is retiring. I got her on a L920 she loves the device and the OS because of its simplicity. What she does miss is the hardware keyboard.
    There were leaked photos of possibly the BB10 with physical keyboard.
    I wonder how many who are dedicated to the brand are dedicated to the physical keyboard (my wife hates touchscreen keyboards).

    As I see it, I think the 3rd spot is Microsoft to lose, not RIM to gain. I'm hoping WP8 is a positive sign that MS plans to put massive dollars behind this channel, one that is growing. RIM, on the other hand, is bleeding, and will rely on technology that frankly has been out for so long now. I remember reading a quote about a year ago from a RIM MKTG manager how the full touchscreen is not the way to achieve success, just as another member of their org was introducing the full touchscreen.

    I know devoted BB fans who have moved on to iPhone, for instance. And the more I show them WP, the more intrigued they are. I don't see RIM getting that 3rd spot.
  5. sirfly2fly's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by windocks96 View Post
    MS has Windows (7/8/RT) and all the integration you get with that.
    I personally think it would be a matter of preference.
    If you have a surface, and desktop running W8 everything is just smooth unlike the other OS's (Android,BB,Symbian,etc)
    What integration are you speaking of?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    Blackberrys were always good business phones. Yet they are trying to compete against consumer devices.

    They need to go big on business, do something iOS, android, WP, etc can't, I just don't know what that is.
    And that's what BB Balance is no1 else has that ability
    Last edited by Dave Blake; 12-24-2012 at 01:02 PM.
  6. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sirfly2fly View Post
    What integration are you speaking of?

    What?! Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by sirfly2fly View Post
    And that's what BB Balance is no1 else has that ability
    Again what?
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar

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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by sirfly2fly View Post
    And that's what BB Balance is no1 else has that ability
    Good Technology and Mobile Iron are two others with that capability.
  8. snowmutt's Avatar

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    #33  
    No cloud storage, no true laptop/PC connections, and this is based on the same OS that didn't light the world on fire with the Playbook. Also, as a general rule, BlackBerry tends to be more expensive. These are the things they must overcome.

    A HUGE fan base, and decent profits still rolling it. These are their advantages, and they are HUGE advantages.

    I think RIM is still in the same boat they were two years ago: How can RIM innovate fast enough? They control and invest entirely on their own. Both software and hardware. As Android OEMs and WP OEMs invest in the hardware and allow Google and Microsoft to shoulder the cost of software development. It is truly a quick moving, more efficient way to handle the mobile world. Even Apple is having problems innovating. iOS has not had a major upgrade in years. They milked the iPhone 3 basic hardware for three years before giving the iPhone 5 a new chassis. This was all due to wanting to keep cost down and profits high. Now Apple HAS an entire ecosystem, and iTunes and that ecosystem is keeping Apple hugely succesful. RIM doesn't have that or anyone to share their costs to development.

    I see BB10 selling extremely well in 2013. I see the CrackBerry faithful driving it to great numbers. And I do not want RIM to die, so that is good. It is late 2013/2014 that I see the true measure of their investment. If nothing comes out as a follow up fast enough, or if the Z10 (the rumored name for the full touch screen device) does not get some Android/iOS converts, then BB is in trouble. They can't get new devices out as fast as WP/Android hardware makers can, nor do they have to offer what Apple and MS do as far as ecosystem. I still worry for there future.

    WP needs a strong 2013 in Tablets and cell phones, and they will be fine. All people have to do is get used to the Modern UI. That is a huge hurdle, but once it is jumped the ret should take care of itself (like app and ecosystem development). BB does not have that luxury.
    A closed mouth gathers no feet.
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  9. BellaRed's Avatar
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    #34  
    If BB10 sells well they will easily regain 3rd spot. Especially if a lot of former BB users return. If iPhone and android users move over then the world is their oyster.

    My problem with BB10 is that they are screaming innovation yet I don't see too much (yet) the active frames, clock. Calendar etc is taken from Meego (Nokia N9). Their timeshift camera isn't unique either, Nokia Smartshoot does it too.

    Its kinda Nokia N9 meets BBOS 7.

    That said, I have a Blackberry alongside ny 820 and may consider BB10, BB notifications are way ahead. I do not however like the look of the active frames homescreen. I see it's purpose but don't find it attractive.

    I wish them well.

    Wp8 will still be around but may not achieve lofty heights until they improve further.
  10. sirfly2fly's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blake View Post
    What?! Seriously?



    Again what?
    Yes, explain the integration and its benefits...BB10 has newbay so expect to see cloud services from them if that is the only integration your referring to. Why doesn't Microsoft make the Surface run off your phone's 3G/LTE connection no hotspot or connect your surface to the TV open something from your phone and use your phone as a mouse to control your surface while hooked up to your HDTV. That is useful integration to me.

    BB Balance allows work profile and personal profile on one phone. Look it up dont feel like typing a book
  11. sirfly2fly's Avatar
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    #36  
    When talking BB10 we all have to remember, everything isn't known yet,we have rumors and leaks to go off of but not all confirmed ..cloud services will come as they do own the company NewBay ..instead of doing things on their own, they've brought some of the best together
  12. crystal_planet's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by sirfly2fly View Post
    Yes, explain the integration and its benefits...BB10 has newbay so expect to see cloud services from them if that is the only integration your referring to. Why doesn't Microsoft make the Surface run off your phone's 3G/LTE connection no hotspot or connect your surface to the TV open something from your phone and use your phone as a mouse to control your surface while hooked up to your HDTV. That is useful integration to me.

    BB Balance allows work profile and personal profile on one phone. Look it up dont feel like typing a book
    "Useful integration" is using a smartphone as a mouse to control a tablet to display on a tv? Wow. You and I have much different definitions of what useful integration is.

    BTW I can tether from my windows phone to my surface neat as you please.

    I'm not sure what you are getting at.
    My next phone...
  13. Laura Knotek's Avatar

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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by sirfly2fly View Post
    BB Balance allows work profile and personal profile on one phone. Look it up dont feel like typing a book
    But why would a person choose that? Business users prefer any device but BlackBerry when BYOD is offered.
  14. BellaRed's Avatar
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    #39  
    Blackberry Bridge only really came to be as the Blackberry playbook had no email, BBM etc at first. It was a way to get those onto the WiFi only Playbook.

    Now that playbook will get all this with an update to BB10 the Bridge app will be used less. After 2 years on the market the Playbook is finally going to get BBM!
  15. sirfly2fly's Avatar
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    #40  
    Im just trying to educate myself, Sprint doesn't have WP8 so i couldn't check one out when i went there the other day. I'm sure you can tether to your tablet, is it a Hotspot added to your bill?

    Yes i find that pretty useful to browse a website on my TV while sitting in my couch from my Tablet or replying to my text messages from my Tablet and receiving an alert when my phone is ringing...i still havent had my question answered tho
  16. sirfly2fly's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    But why would a person choose that? Business users prefer any device but BlackBerry when BYOD is offered.
    When you say this though its in reference to BBOS not BB10, how can one prefer any device but BB10 when it isn't out? see my point...
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttsoldier View Post
    BB10 is just a copy of IOS and Android put together.

    Some of the swipe features are cool, I'll give them that.

    That home screen though Is like... Wtf? :/ It's like a failed live tiles.

    BB10 is too late. The ONLY thing RIM has going for them is BBM. But one by one, people are slowly leaving.
    Exactly which iPhone or Android phone has swipe features? webOS had the swipes and gestures. Personally, I couldn't consider any other phone than a BB simply because of the keyboard.
  18. ClixT's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    And RIM sold more BlackBerry phones in this past quarter than Nokia has sold Lumias in its entire run.
    You're comparing ALL off RIM's sales to Nokia's Lumia line.. Nokia sold way more phones the RIM did..

    "BlackBerry smartphone shipments declined in Q3 2012; the company shipped 6.9 million smartphones" (dazeinfo.com).
    "[Nokia] Mobile Phones Q3 volumes increased quarter-on-quarter to 77 million units; strong sales start for new Asha full touch smartphones, with volumes of 6.5 million units" (Nokia)

    Yeah I know it's about BB10 v Lumia WP8. I think we should wait for BB10 to get released.
    Then we compare and contrast the numbers. (BB10's 1st 3 month sales v Lumia WP8 1st 3 month sal
    es)

    gmlongo likes this.
  19. squire777's Avatar
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    #44  
    The thing that made Blackberry phones popular was that you could use BBM and exchange messages without a data connection. With everyone now having data plans it probably doesn't matter.

    I don't see RIM getting out of 4th place at this point in time.
  20. Napocensis's Avatar
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    #45  
    I am tired about hearing the buzz word "ecosystem". Except for Skydrive, what is so amazing about the WP8 integration with a Windows environment?

    WP8 does not have a file manager which is a standard feature in Windows, while BBOS does have one. In WP8, you cannot even take a PDF and attach it to an email.

    Outlook/Exchange belong to MS, but WP8 does not allow one to open Calendar attachments. In fact, it does not even show any attachments, one needs to use a computer to find out that the meeting request had attachments. BB on the other hand can easily handle that.

    WP8 is a great entertainment tool, but has a lot to learn from RIM in terms of business user needs. I really like the amazing built of Nokia phone, the slickness and speed of WP8 and I truly hope WP8 improves soon. I need my phone to be more than an extension to my Xbox.

    With that in mind, I would not count RIM out.
  21. stephen_az's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    True, but Surface sales are hardly setting the world on fire.
    Where are your data on sales figures? BTW, responding with XXXXXXX said so NOT an answer.
  22. stephen_az's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    I'm starting to worry a bit.

    I played with a colleague's "Developer Alpha" version of the BB10 OS, and I had a couple of observations:

    1) In Alpha form, BB10 is more complete and less buggy than release-day WP8 was. It has a better music player, and the experience is just as smooth and sexy.

    2) RIM took its time to "get everything right." They've ramped up hardware production, they have every major carrier in the US and worldwide supporting their launch (unlike WP) and there are unlikely to be device shortages, regardless of demand. They also spent time to fix and tweak every element of the software experience.

    3) RIM is launching with over 100,000 apps in the BB10 store.

    4) RIM is making it easy for Android apps to be ported over to native BB10. That means that apps like Instagram and others will be reasonably easy to develop for BB10, and will arrive for that platform long before we get them.

    5) RIM, the principal hardware company for BlackBerry, is profitable (as of last quarter) and cash-flow-positive. Nokia, the principal hardware company for Windows Phone, is bleeding cash fast.

    6) RIM is supporting carrier-independent OTA updates, just like Apple and Google. That means that any bugs that do occur can be fixed quickly, without a Portico-style "is my phone going to get it or not" mess.

    I was super-impressed with the UI, slickness, and overall polish of BB10. I am getting worried... this OS could be good enough to push Microsoft out of third place.

    Microsoft needs to step up its game. Third place is NOT guaranteed.
    Is RIM paying you for this ad? That is all it is. You are the first person I have heard say any of this outside of the crackberry cult members. Quite frankly much of what you have said is also simply untrue. Leaving taking their time to get it right and number of apps blather aside, RIM is not independent of the carriers in the US and the only Google products that have any degree of carrier independence is the Nexus line. Android devices that make up most of the market share are NOT Nexus devices. That end of the market is horribly fragmented with no guarantee of updates from either carrier or OEM. Apple interim OS updates have also been few and far between - something you still refuse to acknowledge. Oh, has Apple fixed is map app yet? How about Siri? That one has been around for more than a year. As for RIM financials, I would hardly call them to be a recipe for success. If the launch does not stabilize RIM's position, they will be bought for their technology and patents within a year. Personally I doubt the launch will go well since the only people who seem to think it is the next great thing are the crackberry cult. Most of the comments I have heard have stressed that it is aesthetically unappealing and borrows heavily and badly from Android and Windows Phone. It doesn't even have a guaranteed marketing push from any US carrier and RIM is having to rewrite its fee structure to keep them on board at all. As for porting Android apps, ask the Playbook owners (if you can find many) about that amazing volume of ported Android apps. It doesn't exist and never will. I am sorry but your incessant whining about Portico has been at best silly - this is just attaching a RIM shill job to the whine....
  23. wazup113's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    A lot of younger folks might be Xbox fans. Windows Phone might appeal to them for the Xbox tie-in.
    Honestly i use xbox but i really dont see that as a bunch bonus. Xbox has an official app for both ios and android. Just dont see it that's all
    diego3336 likes this.
  24. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
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    #49  
    I'm also an ex-BlackBerry user. What I see as their biggest hurdle is that perception that anything BlackBerry is so yesterday. If the big time apps that the masses want are not onboard come launch, they're not going anywhere.
  25. BrutalSC's Avatar
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    #50  
    The problem is that BB is all alone. Doing the marketing, and developing hardware and software all alone against the competitors with the little income they have these days will be hard. And while some say that it still has strong sales and sells more in a quater than Lumia during its lifetime (which clearly is false) its mostly in markets that are not that important (outside US, EU, China). Second, BB10 will be quite productivity orientated. BB10 wont be too exciting for consumers.And these days employees want phones that please them as a worker as well as a consumer, therefore it wont be as successful among business people as previously. So I think BB10 will have limited success mostly in the US and some previously BB heavy markets like UK. A WP killer it is not, although it certainly wont help.
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