Google's Interesting Turn of Events

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Key phrase "whether knowingly or not, users create data whilst using Google

Whether you know it or not (and I'll allow that you probably do know) Microsoft does the exact same thing.

Go to advertising.Microsoft.com and read all about it.

Yes, Google knows lots and lots of stuff about me. Not everything, but lots. The more I use my Lumia and Bing with it, the more Microsoft knows about me for targeting their ads.

Microsoft is a software company that also has their own fledgling ad network. An ad network that can't target ads to users is worthless.

 

[arrowrand]

If I remember correctly, doesn't RIM have lower market numbers than WP8? I feel like there's a double standard being played here from Google. Thoughts from anyone else?

Sadly, I used to have a Blackberry. All of the instant messaging apps for BB are developed by RIM. They have gTalk, Yahoo IM, MSN and AIM.

Google discontinued all of their apps for BlackBerry while I still had it. Gmail, Gmail for Apps, Google Voice and Google Sync were all put to death before I moved to Android.

 

[Morq]

Some people mentioned that ms should implement google talk support for their phone themselves.
That'll not happen, first of all just look and see at what google does all the time now. I'm pretty sure that as soon as app would hit market Google would "do some required software upgrade" that would **** windows phone over because "something's not good enough in the phone".
Another problem is that unlike RIM Microsoft does have its own searching engine which they constantly developing and using competition's solution would be clear admittance of defeat.

Also, who the **** uses googletalk anyway?
Also2, third party devs can always make googletalk app, so one will be released one day or another
Also3, seeing how MS is implementing Skype on w8 it might be a good thing they won't be doing gTalk lol
Also4, since when **** is a swear word that it needs filtered out?

 

[ohgood]

Whether you know it or not (and I'll allow that you probably do know) Microsoft does the exact same thing.

Go to advertising.Microsoft.com and read all about it.

Yes, Google knows lots and lots of stuff about me. Not everything, but lots. The more I use my Lumia and Bing with it, the more Microsoft knows about me for targeting their ads.

Microsoft is a software company that also has their own fledgling ad network. An ad network that can't target ads to users is worthless.

Bingo!

 

[Dave Blake]

Whether you know it or not (and I'll allow that you probably do know) Microsoft does the exact same thing.

Go to advertising.Microsoft.com and read all about it.

Yes, Google knows lots and lots of stuff about me. Not everything, but lots. The more I use my Lumia and Bing with it, the more Microsoft knows about me for targeting their ads.

Microsoft is a software company that also has their own fledgling ad network. An ad network that can't target ads to users is worthless.

Bingo!

No Microsoft does not you are wrong. That is not the question that was asked but I will address it anyways.

"Would you like to help Microsoft improve its services"

Have you ever seen this before? It us always fallowed by a "Yes or No" if you haven't seen this then you don't use Microsoft services. This is where you make the choice to allow that program to use your data. Here is the difference between Microsoft selling software and Google selling advertising. Each service on Microsoft collects its own data to be used to improve that application only. Your data is not shared across the services its not needed. Microsoft touch keyboard program collects your data to help you type better. Bing collects your data to make your Bing searches more accurate. Every bit of data Google collects is shared across all the Google services so that they can advertise to you more directly. They do this by monitoring every word you type in your email. They collect and monitor every word you type on Google+. Google never gives you any way to opt out. I pay $15 a year to have the adds removed from my Outlook account and I chose "NO" that means no one is monitoring my emails at all. Lets see you do that on Gmail.


We have this same conversation over and over with the same people. Google and Microsoft have 2 different business models. Google sells adds to do that they tracks everything you do on all their services and will not give you the option. Microsoft will track you using your data to improve services if you allow it but Microsoft sells software. You can subscribe to almost every service Microsoft offers. You can also opt out of data collection. HERE is the big one Microsoft services don't share data. <That's a period right there.


Its time to stop the bate and switch or maybe you need to do a little research so you know what you are talking about.

What Microsoft does is not "the exact same thing" if you don't know that you better do some research for your own good.

 

[arrowrand]

"Would you like to help Microsoft improve its services"

I use Bing, Bing Maps, SkyDrive, Outlook and Office Web Apps on my Chromebook and MacBook nearly every day. If I saw that, I don't recall it. I would have said yes.

Each service on Microsoft collects its own data to be used to improve that application only. Your data is not shared across the services its not needed.

Google is one company, I have no problem being one profile to them. I know what they're doing, how many buckets they keep data in doesn't concern me.

But that data, if you say yes, is used by MS to build an ad profile. Display ads are in the privacy policy section of every single Bing service.

Regardless how many buckets your data is stored in, you are one single uniquely identified ad target on every service on the Internet that shows MS ads. Deny it, but advertising.Microsoft.com lays it all out for you.

Microsoft touch keyboard program collects your data to help you type better. Bing collects your data to make your Bing searches more accurate. Every bit of data Google collects is shared across all the Google services so that they can advertise to you more directly. They do this by monitoring every word you type in your email. They collect and monitor every word you type on Google+.

Microsoft has every word that I type in Outlook. They have access to everything I do on Facebook. They have every site that I go to thanks to Suggested Sites. They have every letter that I type into the address bar thanks to Instant Search Suggestions, even if I don't complete the search.

You've got a problem with the fact that Google keeps one profile on users while MS breaks that up across services. I get that, but it's a personal choice issue for me. I choose to do things the way that I do.

But I'll give you an example of how this containerized approach doesn't work for me. Enable search history on your desktop in Bing. Now, enable search history in Bing on your phone. Do a search on your phone. Look for that history on your desktop.

It's not there, and as someone that uses 7 total devices on a daily basis, that's not helpful for MS to segregate data that way.

Google never gives you any way to opt out. I pay $15 a year to have the adds removed from my Outlook account and I chose "NO" that means no one is monitoring my emails at all. Lets see you do that on Gmail.

Your email is monitored, or using more accurate terminology, machine indexed on Outlook just Like Gmail. Outlook has a slightly less effective search feature, so all of that data IS machine indexed.

And it's true, MS does say that the contents of your mail will not be used to show ads against in Outlook, but they don't say that the contents of your email won't be used to show you ads anywhere. In legal agreements, words are always chosen very carefully by the lawyers that write them.

Google sells adds to do that they tracks everything you do on all their services and will not give you the option. Microsoft will track you using your data to improve services if you allow it but Microsoft sells software. You can subscribe to almost every service Microsoft offers. You can also opt out of data collection.

Microsoft also sells ads. MS will even match your profile with information from Experian and Nielsen to better target ads that you see online and in your Xbox console. Experian is also a Target partner, and Target is world renowned for the work that they do profiling their customers.

I don't really see how A is better or more wholesome than B.

HERE is the big one Microsoft services don't share data. <That's a period right there.

Clearly, this is a huge deal for you, and I get that. For me, it's a distinction without a difference. MS creates different pools of data about me and stores it all separately. Google has one pool of data.

I don't have a problem with it. I don't.

 

[Ordeith]

So far, Microsoft hasn't claimed copyright of work you produce with their software like Google does.

Microsoft hasn't hacked their way around user privacy settings like Google does.

Microsoft actually honors do not track from their own products where setting do not track in Chrome only applies to non-google sites and services.

Microsoft isn't trying to get invasive hardware and software installed in ISP NOCs so they can track activity regardless of the client.

Today, Given Google or Microsoft, Microsoft is actually the lesser evil.

 

[ag1986]

No Microsoft does not you are wrong. That is not the question that was asked but I will address it anyways.

"Would you like to help Microsoft improve its services"

Have you ever seen this before? It us always fallowed by a "Yes or No" if you haven't seen this then you don't use Microsoft services. This is where you make the choice to allow that program to use your data. Here is the difference between Microsoft selling software and Google selling advertising. Each service on Microsoft collects its own data to be used to improve that application only. Your data is not shared across the services its not needed. Microsoft touch keyboard program collects your data to help you type better. Bing collects your data to make your Bing searches more accurate. Every bit of data Google collects is shared across all the Google services so that they can advertise to you more directly. They do this by monitoring every word you type in your email. They collect and monitor every word you type on Google+. Google never gives you any way to opt out. I pay $15 a year to have the adds removed from my Outlook account and I chose "NO" that means no one is monitoring my emails at all. Lets see you do that on Gmail.


We have this same conversation over and over with the same people. Google and Microsoft have 2 different business models. Google sells adds to do that they tracks everything you do on all their services and will not give you the option. Microsoft will track you using your data to improve services if you allow it but Microsoft sells software. You can subscribe to almost every service Microsoft offers. You can also opt out of data collection. HERE is the big one Microsoft services don't share data. <That's a period right there.


Its time to stop the bate and switch or maybe you need to do a little research so you know what you are talking about.

What Microsoft does is not "the exact same thing" if you don't know that you better do some research for your own good.

Going by your logic, MS is far worse; they have access to everything you do on any Windows PC, yes?

And you CAN pay for Gmail, just it's a little more complex - set up a Google Apps account, no ads plus you get email on your own domain.

 

[Nataku4ca]

But I'll give you an example of how this containerized approach doesn't work for me. Enable search history on your desktop in Bing. Now, enable search history in Bing on your phone. Do a search on your phone. Look for that history on your desktop.

IE Win8 seems to sync favorites together, im not sure if history is the same, but tbh this part has nothing to do with what you are arguing with him about is there? i mean syncing history together is one thing, but pulling that data for the company's own use is a different thing...

what Dave is saying is personal info not shared across the entities for selling, not that you shouldn't be able to to sync stuff with other services, heck PeopleHub came right down to my tablet when I got it (had the L800 first) and I didn't have to do anything extra, so that's syncing for sure.... oh and if u have multiple win8 computer and all use the same account to log in, wall paper and some of the settings get synced across too (with the option to turn them off of course) so they are making changes in that front for sure

 

[Nataku4ca]

Going by your logic, MS is far worse; they have access to everything you do on any Windows PC, yes?

And you CAN pay for Gmail, just it's a little more complex - set up a Google Apps account, no ads plus you get email on your own domain.

dude... please read their privacy statement and the link to what data are collected if you click yes... even "we" in the corporate IT can not handle the amount of data, that would generate oceans of data just for PCs on our internal network, I know for a fact that the most any company would keep track of is messaging/email, anything else would be overwhelming not just for storage but the network(not that some won't pick and choose things such as keeping a history of what's copied on to an USB drive... usually only companies that have highly confidential data does that though)

 

[arrowrand]

what Dave is saying is personal info not shared across the entities for selling

Fine, if you want to make this just about "selling" let's do that.

MS "sells" you to advertisers from different, unique buckets of profile data, all tied together by your MS account.

Google "sells" you to advertisers from one bucket of profile data, tied to your Google account.

Now, you and Dave and every other person here that wants to make this about "selling" people will obviously pick the MS method that ties data unique to that service with Experian and Nielsen data and claim it to be preferable.

Me? That's a distinction without ANY difference. Data about users is collected. Ads are targeted at users (in-house) based on that profile data.

 

[Dave Blake]

Wow so many misguided people. All of you need to go back and review your terms and conditions. If you think that what Microsoft does with data collected is the same as what Google does you are wrong.

Skype Terms of Use

Microsoft Services Agreement

Google Terms of Service ? Policies & Principles ? Google

From Google terms and conditions.

[NOTE][h=2]Your Content in our Services[/h]
Some of our Services allow you to submit content. You retain ownership of any intellectual property rights that you hold in that content. In short, what belongs to you stays yours.
When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services. You can find more information about how Google uses and stores content in the privacy policy or additional terms for particular Services. If you submit feedback or suggestions about our Services, we may use your feedback or suggestions without obligation to you.[/NOTE]


From Microsoft service agreement
[NOTE]
3.1. Who owns the content that I put on the services? Content includes anything you upload to, store on, or transmit through the services, such as data, documents, photos, video, music, email and instant messages ("content"). Except for material that we license to you that may be incorporated into your own content (such as clip art), we don't claim ownership of the content you provide on the services. Your content remains your content, and you are responsible for it. We strongly advise you to make regular back-up copies of your content. We don't control, verify, pay for or endorse the content that you and others make available on the services.[/NOTE]


I want to add to this that at no time in this thread have I stated that I think what Google is doing is wrong its up to the individual what you want to share. By putting anything on the internet you are giving up a certain amount of rights to what you post. What I do want everyone to understand is that Microsoft and Google have very different ways of doing things.

 

[ImmortalWarrior]

I'm really glad you went ahead and posted that Dave. People don't understand why Microsoft still has the strength in the market that they do and this is a major contributing factor. Microsoft hasn't breached the people's trust on the privacy front. In fact, they bend over backwards to make sure their services are secure and safe.

It is the same in the development world. MSDN is the largest and most comprehensive development network in the world. As much as the mouthbreathers and hipsters want to vouch for Google and hate on Microsoft, they aren't going to change the fact that Microsoft is doing good work.

 

[bawboh86]

It is the same in the development world. MSDN is the largest and most comprehensive development network in the world.

I use to be one of the Microsoft haters out there. Now, my favorite program EVER to use is Visual Studio 2010. They've really made great strides in everything they have out right now to fix up UI and make it downright pleasant to use their services.

 

[ImmortalWarrior]

I use to be one of the Microsoft haters out there. Now, my favorite program EVER to use is Visual Studio 2010. They've really made great strides in everything they have out right now to fix up UI and make it downright pleasant to use their services.

I totally love VS2010. It makes eclipse and netbeans look positively amateur by comparison. Try downloading Power Productivity Tools from the extension manager. Makes it even better.

I've been toying with vs2012 and I am considering purchasing a license for it this year. It looks promising and I like the interface improvements.

 

[bawboh86]

I totally love VS2010. It makes eclipse and netbeans look positively amateur by comparison. Try downloading Power Productivity Tools from the extension manager. Makes it even better.

I've been toying with vs2012 and I am considering purchasing a license for it this year. It looks promising and I like the interface improvements.

I personally refuse to use VS 2010 if I can't install Power Tools. I've been so use to them that I can't use the tool as effectively without it. I went to a conference hosted by Microsoft a year or so ago, and they were talking about how they were going to build the features from Power Tools into the software. I, too, am trying out VS 2012, and haven't seen too many. Then again, I'm using the Express addition to make WP8 apps.