Microsoft should attack Google for its proprietary ways

brmiller1976

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Desktop IE, like other browsers, has vulnerabilities that can be patched.

That's different than a browser designed to scrape user data and report it to a remote server to build out a profile.

Chrome is so spyware-centric that it crashed outright and refused to run during Google's recent network outage. If people understood the level of data they're sending to Google, they'd be blown away.
 

spaulagain

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Bull puckey. If a service is proprietary and doesn't support basic standards like IE10, it's closed. End of.

As much as I love Windows and Microsoft I have to completely disagree with you here.

As a web designer/developer I can tell you that Google is the best when it comes to web standards and is overall the easiest to develop for. Its IE that is way off standards and always needs proprietary hacks to display some of the most simple CSS, etc.

Also, Chromes' update process is the best. Having notable "versions" of a browser like IE does creates fragmentation nightmares for web developers and allows for users to naturally fall generations behind in the browser they use.
Gmail, and their other products on the other hand are on par at best. They often leave something to be desired. And Android, well that's just a cluster****.
 

snakebitten

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Phones and politics. Polarizing nowadays. 😊

I'm an old fart. Find both a bit entertaining.

Love my MacBook, iPad3, Windows 8 desktop, and my new 920. This phone is crazy awesome. My biggest surprise.
 

Laura Knotek

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I don't use IE or Chrome all that often on my desktop. My desktop browsers of choice are Firefox and Opera. Firefox is the default, and Opera is my second choice. I rarely use IE or Chrome.
 

dogfish54

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I don't think Google stuff sucks, if I did I wouldn't care about this. I do think they are not developing for Windows Phone due to Bing being the default search engine. This is a war of ecosystems. Apple and Google's ecosystems complement each other mostly. Microsoft and Google are in much greater competition; Bing, Office, Skydrive. The thing is ... Microsoft isn't insignificant, so it'll be interesting to watch this space.
 

a5cent

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Google is not slacking on web standards.

That sentence isn't specific enough. Google is a huge company with many products and services, some of which are W3C standards-compliant and some of which (likely intentionally) violate those same standards.

I won't go into all the details again here. I will just say that Google's and Apple's treatment of internet standards often amounts to the misuse of monopoly power. In the 1990's Microsoft went to court for similar behavior and was forced to clean up their act. Apparently, the same standards don't apply today. More on this can be found here .

Google is certainly slacking on web standards. It doesn't support Windows browsers properly.

just a small clarification... neither Google nor any other company should be required to explicitly support Windows browsers. They should only be required to abide by internet standards. If websites are standards-compliant, any browser will be able to display the websites content correctly, including IE10, which is one of the best browsers in terms of standards-compliance.

How does Microsoft give a user choice if it does not allow any browser other than IE on Windows Phone?

Microsoft isn't giving you a choice of internet browsers, but even if they wanted too, they just can't afford it. Let me explain:

Mobile Safari and Mobile Chrome are both based on WebKit, and together they are responsible for 95+% of all mobile internet traffic. They are very close to making all other browsers (Firefox, Opera, IE) irrelevant on the mobile web. If Google and Apple were to respect the W3C standardization process this wouldn't be a problem, but as it is now Google and Apple are obviously more interested in running a mobile web dictatorship. The W3C (the organization behind most internet standards) would continue to exist, but would basically adopt anything Apple and Google implement in WebKit as the official standard. As Apple and Google both directly compete with Microsoft, surrendering all control over the mobile web would deal a very strong blow to Microsoft's future ability to compete effectively. The only way to prevent this is by drastically increasing mobile IE's market share on the mobile web. The market share must be large enough to persuade Google, that they can no longer afford to offer a sub-par experience to that many people without noticeably hurting their advertising revenues. IE on WP isn't just Microsoft's last hope of preventing this dictatorship, but also Mozilla's and Opera's.

Theoretically, Microsoft shouldn't mind too much if IE on WP8 is replaced with Firefox or Opera. Although they would prefer you used IE, giving you that choice doesn't threaten them. Unfortunately, Microsoft can't legally allow those two browsers while refusing Safari and Chrome. Were Microsoft to allow Chrome on WP8, it would amount to Microsoft waving the white flag, and we could all attend IE's funeral shortly thereafter.

Basically, all consumers are pawns in Apple's and Google's fight for dominance over the mobile web, and Microsoft's hope of preventing that.

Put yourself in Microsoft's position. Would you allow Safari and/or Chrome on WP8?
 
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a5cent

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Microsoft doesn't ban alternative browsers. There's simply no developer building an alternative browser -- likely because IE 10 is so good.

They have banned other browsers on WRT. I don't know what their policy is for WP, but the existence of Nokia's Xpress (in beta) proves that at least Nokia can offer any browser they choose (it isn't just a skin).
 
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brmiller1976

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As much as I love Windows and Microsoft I have to completely disagree with you here.

As a web designer/developer I can tell you that Google is the best when it comes to web standards and is overall the easiest to develop for. Its IE that is way off standards and always needs proprietary hacks to display some of the most simple CSS, etc.

Also, Chromes' update process is the best. Having notable "versions" of a browser like IE does creates fragmentation nightmares for web developers and allows for users to naturally fall generations behind in the browser they use.

Gmail, and their other products on the other hand are on par at best. They often leave something to be desired. And Android, well that's just a cluster****.

Chrome is also spyware. Which is why, if a developer demands that I run Chrome to view his website, I inform him that he's either going to develop something truly open (or go without me using it).
 

brmiller1976

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They have banned other browsers on WRT. I don't know what their policy is for WP, but the existence of Nokia's Xpress (in beta) proves that at least Nokia can offer any browser they choose (it isn't just a skin).

They haven't banned other browers, just said that any browser on RT has to be a Metro app. Mozilla and Google just want to do a cheap recompile of their existing product and say "voila, Windows RT!"
 

a5cent

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They haven't banned other browers, just said that any browser on RT has to be a Metro app. Mozilla and Google just want to do a cheap recompile of their existing product and say "voila, Windows RT!"

Although browser developers can build metro styled browsers for WRT, the metro environment doesn't provide access to some of the API's those browser developers claim to require. At one point Mozilla, Opera and Google claimed they won't be able to develop browsers for WRT at all, and that is where the idea of their browsers being "banned" came from. Since them, all have decided to deliver metro styled browsers, so I agree, it isn't the correct term.
 

brmiller1976

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Mozilla and Google are lazy and incompetent. Mozilla cannot even support 64 bit browsing, while Google just wants to force users into Chrome to download all their browsing and communications data to resell to advertisers. Neither seems especially interested in delivering a quality experience on the platform.
 

Laura Knotek

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Mozilla and Google are lazy and incompetent. Mozilla cannot even support 64 bit browsing, while Google just wants to force users into Chrome to download all their browsing and communications data to resell to advertisers. Neither seems especially interested in delivering a quality experience on the platform.

Check out Waterfox or Pale Moon if you are interested in a 64-bit custom build of Firefox for Windows.
 

brmiller1976

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Yeah, those offshoots of Firefox pop up and go for a while before getting abandoned... then you're back to square one. And they don't get updated as often with security patches and other things.

Seriously, the laziness in the tech community as of late really bothers me. Back in the 1990s, you had developers who would code optimized versions of the same software for multiple platforms that were often very different -- MS-DOS, Windows 3.X, Amiga, Atari ST, Acorn Archimedes, etc. Now they cannot even bother to develop optimized apps for the next generation of the same OS they're already developing for!
 

squire777

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The news about Google dropping support for EAS is another reason why I want to get away from that scummy company. Slowly but surely I am getting away from my gmail accounts.
 

notebookgrail

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How do you think google and Facebook make all their money .. Its not from ads I know for sure .. Just think when was the last time you purposely clicked on an web ad
So why do my paid ads in Google Adsense generate so many clicks? Someone is clicking. If not, there is some sinister going on within Google - May be, they have paid folks all over the world to just click ads that they put?
 

DaveGx

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I never understood fully how ads bring in money sometimes, especially on most websites. I guess, to be more clear, I can't believe there are so many people that actually click on ads. I only do when its an accident.
 

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