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  1. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #26  
    I'm not sure who is saying never use Google products. I for one use Google search all the time on PC (Bing on phone). I also use Chrome Browser on PC and of course YouTube.

    Its products like their Gmail, Google Docs, Google+ and the worst, Android that I've completely avoided now.

    Outlook.com is SOOOOO much better than Gmail.

    Google is a search company. Using them for search is perfectly logical. That's what they are best at.
  2. Tahiti Bob's Avatar
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    #27  
    Google boycott is just silly, they have great products. Some have Microsoft equivalent, some don't. I use whichever software is better, I'm the one missing out otherwise. I can live with Outlook, Skydrive, Bing maps and Office365 but to me Search, Chrome, Google Reader, Google Earth and Youtube are just irreplaceable or just better than similar Microsoft products. That doesn't mean I would enjoy Android better, I absolutely love Windows Phone even though it's far from perfect.
    Almost a year since that Flipboard announcement...
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  3. manunitedfan5's Avatar
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    #28  
    I just want to find something like google discussions but I really can't, I wish Bing had that
  4. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    I'm not sure who is saying never use Google products. <snipped>
    Google is a search company. Using them for search is perfectly logical. That's what they are best at.
    Wrong. Google is an advertising company. Search is only a means of collecting the data they sell or use in add targeting. Since you aren't paying Google for their services, you aren't the customer.

    Have you ever "gmailed" your mother about an illness... Google knows about it. Have you ever "gmailed" a friend about marriage problems... Google knows about it. Have you ever searched for the morning-after-pill on the internet while logged in... Google knows about it. People might find this far fetched, but it's really barely the basics. I've worked on these kinds of systems and they can literally deduce information about you that not even you yourself know. Google collects incredible amounts of data on each of their users. The creepy thing is, that you have no idea who has access to it.

    If you are fine with that, great, no problem. That is your choice to make. Although I have nothing to hide, I still don't want people jumping to conclusions about me, based solely on Google's profiling algorithms.

    Chrome too is primarily a means of collecting data. Surely they aren't giving it to you for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. The tricky thing about Chrome is that it has access to your entire computer and every file on it. I view Chrome as spyware and would never install it on any system I use, ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tahiti Bob View Post
    Google boycott is just silly, they have great products. Some have Microsoft equivalent, some don't. I use whichever software is better, I'm the one missing out otherwise.
    I completely disagree. Google boycott isn't silly. It's just that some people care more about privacy than others. If you don't care about your privacy that is fine, but other's aren't crazy because they do. What I dislike is that many consumers are completely ignorant in regard to how Google makes their money. Many consumers don't realize to what extent they are sacrificing their privacy in exchange for Google's "free" services. I would prefer if consumers could at least make more informed decisions on the matter.

    I do agree that we can go overboard though... at some point protecting your privacy boarders on paranoia.
  5. Tahiti Bob's Avatar
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    #30  
    I understand... and don't care. Let them collect whatever they want, I don't have much to hide. Outside the US, Bing search is nowhere as good as Google so using Bing (or whatever else) just on principle is silly. I'm not a primary Gmail user so I'm pretty much never logged on when I browse the net, I think I only log on to check my youtube subscriptions. Really I'm fine using whatever Google has to offer unless someone else does it before.
    Almost a year since that Flipboard announcement...
  6. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #31  
    I don't know if a search engine's success is a product of what region you are in. But I know here in Western Massachusetts, Google is far superior than Bing, point blank.
  7. Flagz's Avatar
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    #32  
    I am forced to use google as I have alot of people on YouTube who want to see me post videos ON YOUTUBE. :( other than YouTube, I am now FULL BING! :D
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  8. dalydose's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDedrick View Post
    I don't know if a search engine's success is a product of what region you are in. But I know here in Western Massachusetts, Google is far superior than Bing, point blank.
    point blank? What makes them so dramatically different to the point of one being "point blank" superior?
  9. dalydose's Avatar
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    #34  
    I'm weening off. I already use Bing 100% as my search engine. I started my Outlook.com addresses to replace Gmail as email. Next up is to move my private domain, which I'm a little worried about doing it right.

    I will only be on YouTube within the month.
  10. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by dalydose View Post
    point blank? What makes them so dramatically different to the point of one being "point blank" superior?
    As I said in my post, I don't know if its regional thing or what. Some say Bing is better and I've tried to use the search engine. I just get better results with Google
  11. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDedrick View Post
    I don't know if a search engine's success is a product of what region you are in. But I know here in Western Massachusetts, Google is far superior than Bing, point blank.
    I think the types of things you typically search for are also very important. It appears that searches for scientific or technical information are far better with Google. People who predominantly search for recipes or sales prices tend to prefer Bing... or so some Americans have told me. Where I live, Google is better for everything... no competition.
  12. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    I think the types of things you typically search for are also very important. It appears that searches for scientific or technical information are far better with Google. People who predominantly search for recipes or sales prices tend to prefer Bing... or so some Americans have told me. Where I live, Google is better for everything... no competition.
    I can guarantee you my search isn't for anything scientific or technical. I am that guy searching for recipes or for random cartoons I barely remember from my childhood. Google, 99% of the time, finds what I'm looking for
  13. rtotheich's Avatar
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    #38  
    Luminatic,

    As someone who hopes to go into the localization business myself in the near future, I'm sorry to hear that bing has not yet been well implemented in Switzerland. I can't blame you for using Google search in that case, but there is a google search app for WP, and the google site works fine in the browser yes? That being said, you should be able to use google search to your heart's content. I don't understand why it would be a big issue. Even syncing Gmail isn't an issue. It's calendar, drive, voice and other services that will NOT work since they are proprietary software.

    As for other device services, it's too bad that local scout and other features don't function well there either. I don't know what impression you have about iPhone there, but iPhone users in the UK and France were extremely angry about issues with Siri (not sure if they were ever resolved) since saying "I'm hungry" (or <<j'ai faim>>) wouldn't return anything simply because there were almost no restaurants listed in an online database. Also, simple changes in accent were unrecognizable. I think that Local Scout is in a similar situation now. And it SHOULD work, but I honestly don't believe the problem is from lack of trying localization is an extremely difficult feat because it requires software engineers who are also proficient in multiple languages and oftentimes there are none of these in a particular language OR they don't want to work for Microsoft. Let's only hope that this will change with the continued sales of WP8

    As for me, I think I'll apply to be a French localization specialist in Switzerland after I get my masters

    Cheers!
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  14. snowmutt's Avatar

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    #39  
    @rtoheich: Good luck and best wishes!! I WISH I could Master something... anything....

    I find this thread kind of fun. Outside of YouTube, MS tries to offer something to compete with both Google and Apple. They have really nailed Bing were it is working. I have gotten to the point I use it and prefer it, and that was truly before I started becoming a WP user. But I do live in the US, and I think we have concluded that MS is a long way from Bing being a worldwide option.

    Otherwise, I am enjoying my developing ecosystem. I think it is okay to work within what is best for you. Not that everyone agrees or would even be open minded to you doing it, even if did not hurt them. Roll over to Android Central and start this thread there. There would be much rage and nashing of teeth as the Troll Hunters would grab their pitchforks and light their torches....
    A closed mouth gathers no feet.
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  15. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #40  
    I will say I'm rooting for Bing to be a real competitive, don't get me wrong.
    rtotheich likes this.
  16. #41  
    I haven't used google regularly for probably since 2009 or whenever bing first rolled out. I still use it occasionally. Bing thou works 99% of the time. And the 1% of the time i can not find what I need on Bing, usually Google can't find it either. They equal search providers. I just choose to use Bing instead.

    As for other services. Google Calendar is much better than anything other than outlook (the application). The Live Calendar is horrible. So I use Gmail because my university is a Google Apps user, and then I the same calendar for personal and education. I don't think I will ever loose google 100%, but if google disappeared I would be just fine.

    I wish my school subscribed to office 365, we use this at work and it is freaken awesome compared to google apps. I would use my work calendar for personal but I do not want my bosses looking at my personal calendar. ;P
  17. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminatic View Post
    Thanks to a comment on the wpcentral homepage, I've found that even bing.de has more features than bing.ch, and it's NOT in beta.
    <snipped>Or maybe there are just not enough of us, making us too unimportant to care.
    I think your suspicion is correct. Also don't forget our four official languages which complicates things further.

    I feel that Microsoft just doesn't understand anything about the world outside the U.S. For example, I really don't understand why the website www.bing.ch exists in the first place. Why not just stick with www.bing.com, and make everything else configurable?

    For example, although I live in Switzerland, I am interested in news from Germany, the U.S., China, anything related to the EU and Switzerland. I prefer most of my web searches to be in English, but I want to quickly switch to French or German searches when necessary. I'm rarely interested in restricting my searches only to sites in Switzerland. Unfortunately, Microsoft insists on pigeonholing everyone, based on what country they currently live in. That might work in the U.S. where most people speak exactly one language and aren't much interested in the happenings beyond their boarders, but that is completely different for Europeans. We cross boarders constantly and we typically speak more than one language, and that affects what we are interested in and how we use search.

    Like I said, all this stuff should be configurable, and not based on the country code of the domain you use to search.
    Laura Knotek and Klevis like this.
  18. chinlj's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    I feel that Microsoft just doesn't understand anything about the world outside the U.S. .
    Totally agree on this
  19. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #44  
    I live in the U.S. and I think Bing is merely adequate. I tried sticking to Bing only when i first got my Lumia 900 ( i used Bing exclusively on my computer too) and i made it about a month. I even took the "Bing it on challenge" and Google won by a landslide. I really wanted to like Bing, especially since I am stuck with a permanent Bing button on my phone.

    But the truth is, its just not as good as Google. I still use it because the button is there, but I've never once seen it give me better/more relevant search results than Google. It is adequate for most things though.

    As for the rest of this, I don't see the point in inconveniencing myself greatly just to try and be Google free. Yes, Google is an advertising company that will info-mine your internet surfing habits, but if you think Bing doesn't do the same thing, you're deluding yourself. Every company with a presence on the web does it in one form or another. Unless you're going to delete your Facebook account and every other identifying piece of info on the web and surf the internet using Tor from now on, there is no sense in working yourself up into a lather over this stuff and thinking you are some kind of internet privacy warrior because you use Bing and hotmail.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
  20. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Wrong. Google is an advertising company. Search is only a means of collecting the data they sell or use in add targeting. Since you aren't paying Google for their services, you aren't the customer.

    Have you ever "gmailed" your mother about an illness... Google knows about it. Have you ever "gmailed" a friend about marriage problems... Google knows about it. Have you ever searched for the morning-after-pill on the internet while logged in... Google knows about it. People might find this far fetched, but it's really barely the basics. I've worked on these kinds of systems and they can literally deduce information about you that not even you yourself know. Google collects incredible amounts of data on each of their users. The creepy thing is, that you have no idea who has access to it.

    If you are fine with that, great, no problem. That is your choice to make. Although I have nothing to hide, I still don't want people jumping to conclusions about me, based solely on Google's profiling algorithms.

    Chrome too is primarily a means of collecting data. Surely they aren't giving it to you for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. The tricky thing about Chrome is that it has access to your entire computer and every file on it. I view Chrome as spyware and would never install it on any system I use, ever.



    I completely disagree. Google boycott isn't silly. It's just that some people care more about privacy than others. If you don't care about your privacy that is fine, but other's aren't crazy because they do. What I dislike is that many consumers are completely ignorant in regard to how Google makes their money. Many consumers don't realize to what extent they are sacrificing their privacy in exchange for Google's "free" services. I would prefer if consumers could at least make more informed decisions on the matter.

    I do agree that we can go overboard though... at some point protecting your privacy boarders on paranoia.
    No, I'm not wrong. They started out as a search company. Advertising is how they get their money from search. Otherwise they would be a non-profit company. Yahoo and Bing use advertising as well.

    And yes, I know all about their tracking of search etc. I use those services at the company I work for. And the reason those services are so effective for businesses is because Google's consumer products are so good at what they do that a majority of consumers use their products instead of the other.
  21. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by rtotheich View Post
    Siri wouldn't return anything simply because there were almost no restaurants listed in an online database. Also, simple changes in accent were unrecognizable. I think that Local Scout is in a similar situation now. And it SHOULD work, but I honestly don't believe the problem is from lack of trying localization is an extremely difficult feat because it requires software engineers who are also proficient in multiple languages and oftentimes there are none of these in a particular language OR they don't want to work for Microsoft. Let's only hope that this will change with the continued sales of WP8
    TellMe already recognizes German, French and Italian. That is by far the most challenging engineering task, but it is already completed, at least as far as Switzerland is concerned.

    In regard to Local Scout, well, the button to launch Local Scout simply doesn't exist in WP. You can't even start it. You are likely correct that this is due to a lack of data (although Microsoft does have more than nothing). Interestingly, Nokia has more than enough data for all of Europe, but they apparently haven't merged their POI databases. I was under the impression that Microsoft and Nokia were going to merge ALL their mapping data, but as of yet it hasn't happened. Anyway, none of this requires bilingual engineers. Most junior developers could get this job done.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-30-2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Spelling
  22. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
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    #47  
    If you've used Google for a long time you can't just leave it all of a sudden. Bing and Hotmail/Outlook are both mediocre services. Everyone uses Google and Gmail because quite simply they are superior services. Google Maps are awesome. This is me not being a fanboy, this is me stating a fact(I'm not even an Android user). Go check out some stats on how many people use Google and how many people use Bing. Google is the BEST search engine out there BY FAR.

    As someone said above, Microsoft does not understand the world outside the US which is why Windows Phone has been such a miserable failure in Europe and Asia. Wanna see how Good Microsoft is outside the US? Go check out the Bing maps of Japan. People on this forum talk about simply 'switching' to outlook are people who've probably not used email/calendar/maps etc from other providers. Because if they did then they'd know you can't just 'switch' over from something you'd been using for 10+ years.
  23. tgp
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    I live in the U.S. and I think Bing is merely adequate. I tried sticking to Bing only when i first got my Lumia 900 ( i used Bing exclusively on my computer too) and i made it about a month. I even took the "Bing it on challenge" and Google won by a landslide. I really wanted to like Bing, especially since I am stuck with a permanent Bing button on my phone.

    But the truth is, its just not as good as Google. I still use it because the button is there, but I've never once seen it give me better/more relevant search results than Google. It is adequate for most things though.

    As for the rest of this, I don't see the point in inconveniencing myself greatly just to try and be Google free. Yes, Google is an advertising company that will info-mine your internet surfing habits, but if you think Bing doesn't do the same thing, you're deluding yourself. Every company with a presence on the web does it in one form or another. Unless you're going to delete your Facebook account and every other identifying piece of info on the web and surf the internet using Tor from now on, there is no sense in working yourself up into a lather over this stuff and thinking you are some kind of internet privacy warrior because you use Bing and hotmail.
    I agree with pretty much everything in this post. I too tried Bing it on, and Google won almost every time. There were rumors that if you log in to Bing's & Google's respective sites when you do a search, the results are different. I didn't try it, but I don't doubt it.

    Another thing we've found at work is that when Microsoft releases something new, like a beta product, Google will find where it can be downloaded but not Bing. Explain that one! When Windows 8 RC was released, we used Google to find the download site. It showed up in a Bing search after a few days, and the resulting hits were identical to Google's.

    I'm probably in the minority here when I say that I couldn't care less what Google or anyone else collects about me. If they want to waste their server storage on my data, more power to them! The thing is, that data is what helps make Google's search results better than the competition. Bing and most other major search engines collect data too; they just aren't as good at using it as Google.
  24. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    No, I'm not wrong. They started out as a search company. Advertising is how they get their money from search.
    I don't care how they started out. I'm interested only in how they operate now. The Google of yesteryear and that of today are entirely different organizations.
  25. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by ammarmalik2011 View Post
    People on this forum talk about simply 'switching' to outlook are people who've probably not used email/calendar/maps etc from other providers. Because if they did then they'd know you can't just 'switch' over from something you'd been using for 10+ years.
    I don't think it is a matter of how long anyone has used Google's services, but a matter of how they use them. For example, Google's contacts manager has features which Exchange Server does not, and anyone requiring those features will have a hard time switching. However, even someone with 50 thousand contacts should have no problem switching if those contacts are structured simply. I can understand how someone with a lot of custom Google maps will have a hard time switching, but I can't imaging any reason why someone couldn't instantly switch from gmail.

    It's something that must be evaluated on a case by case basis.
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