Welcome to the Windows Central Forums Create Your Account or Ask a Question Answers in 5 minutes - no registration required!
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 97
Like Tree14Likes
  1. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    Me neither, I was referring to the publishing process: He wanted to make sure, that the app runs well on WP7, before porting the app to WP8 for the new features and resolutions, what took months. Now he has to develop the two apps in parallel. (At least that's how I understood it.)
    If that is really how Jay does it, I'm sure he has his reasons. The people I know don't do it that way. Microsoft has a platform compatibility page devoted specifically to this issue, on which is stated:

    "In general, the Windows Phone app platform enables apps that target Windows Phone OS 7.1 to run without modification or recompilation on Windows Phone 8."

    That means one app. No parallel development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    Also, if apps support the new resolutions, aren't they automatically not compatible to WP7 anymore? I'm not sure, but if this is true, every app that can really support my device, won't work for WP7 anymore, or there have again to be two apps developed in parallel.
    No. WP8 is smarter than that. It has to be, because many WP8 devices still use 800x480 resolutions, remember? Microsoft describes how this works here. It basically comes down to WP UI rendering being pixel agnostic. Actually, every single WP7 app should already have been capable of taking full advantage of your 8x's resolution without any black bars. Many app developers just didn't get it right the first time. Some still don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    For everything else, yes, you're right. But for how long will this last? The Lumia 900 was still really new when WP8 hit. So people who have bought a high end device at the end of the year have now maybe passed three months of their 2 year update cycle. Do you think the support will still be the same in a year when they are left with 9 months?
    Anyone who bought a Lumia 900 three months ago, when the 920 was already available, probably doesn't care that much about updates. However, anyone that cares about their phones as much as we do, would have known to wait a week and then get a newer WP8 device instead. Beyond that though, you are right of course. Support for older devices will slowly dwindle over time. Over what time period is hard to say. Consider however, that brand new WP7 devices are still being sold today. The newest model, the 510, was released just last December. WP7 isn't going away for quite some time. When WP9 is released, WP8 will stick around in exactly the same way... to service the low end...
  2. Chregu's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    7,509 Posts
    Global Posts
    7,539 Global Posts
    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    No. WP8 is smarter than that. It has to be, because many WP8 devices still use 800x480 resolutions, remember? Microsoft describes how this works here. It basically comes down to WP UI rendering being pixel agnostic. Actually, every single WP7 app should already have been capable of taking full advantage of your 8x's resolution without any black bars. Many app developers just didn't get it right the first time. Some still don't get it.
    Are you sure about this? I don't think I have a single WP7 app on my phone without the black bar. As an example again: Jay's app had the bar until it was updated to WP8. Are there any examples of apps written for WP7 without the bars?

    Edit: As a note, there are also two apps of WeekView. One for WP7 and one for WP8 supporting the new features.
  3. WanderingTraveler's Avatar

    Posts
    4,750 Posts
    Global Posts
    4,760 Global Posts
    PIN
    Private Message
    #28  
    I have a solution for Intel and ARM Architecture split.
    ARM -> .xap (works on both x86 and ARM)
    Intel -> .xapx (works on x86 only; easier ports from desktop)

    .xapx will target power users, .xap will target broad audience.
    Thanked by:
  4. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    Are you sure about this? I don't think I have a single WP7 app on my phone without the black bar. As an example again: Jay's app had the bar until it was updated to WP8. Are there any examples of apps written for WP7 without the bars?
    Okay, I misunderstood you. I see what you mean. Yes, you are right. If you port an app to WP8 to get rid of the black bars (it is a shame that this is the only way to do that), then that app is no longer compatible with WP7. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to go full out "parallel development". Some developers use two sets of UI layout files, while keeping everything else largely unchanged. When the app runs, it then loads one or the other set of files depending on whether it is running on WP7 or WP8. That requires a few tricks here and there (Nokia has developer documentation on that subject), but it is possible to target both WP7 and WP8 with a single app. However, that is a hassle. Most don't do it. They will just target WP7 and be done with it. Devices with 720p displays will get black bars. That's life.

    So, we've kind of drifted off topic here. We are discussing differences in hardware (display resolution), and these problems would have occurred even if WP7 devices had been updated to WP8. That is the original point I was trying to make.

    Good night!
    Thanked by:
    Chregu 
  5. jhoff80's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,108 Posts
    Global Posts
    8,087 Global Posts
    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by fardream View Post
    arm to arm is not an architecture change. Also wince is still developing and widely adopted. From a user perspective it is a fiasco - almost nothing new, a lot of new bugs and missing functionalities
    Not a strict architecture change, no, but you can't change from the entire underlying core of an operating system with just a few minutes of copying and pasting. WinCE, still developing? Maybe (but doubtful, the last release was in 2011). It's still positively ancient, and has no business in a modern smartphone though.

    Quote Originally Posted by sentimentGX4 View Post
    Move to x86 processors. Bam. Microsoft doesn't have an OS solution to unite ARM and x86 for non-smartphones as of the moment. We have Windows 8 and we have Windows RT, which are two different OSes with completely stripped down functionality on the part of Windows RT. This suggests that any move to x86 will obsolete current Windows Phones.
    They're actually not two different OSes, they're the same exact one. One is just more locked down than the other. So that shouldn't be a problem either.
  6. fardream's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    458 Posts
    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Not a strict architecture change, no, but you can't change from the entire underlying core of an operating system with just a few minutes of copying and pasting. WinCE, still developing? Maybe (but doubtful, the last release was in 2011). It's still positively ancient, and has no business in a modern smartphone though.
    I felt you might have confused kernel with CPU architecture - whatever, CE is living well, and it's never intended to be a full blown OS like windows phone.
  7. jhoff80's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,108 Posts
    Global Posts
    8,087 Global Posts
    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by fardream View Post
    I felt you might have confused kernel with CPU architecture - whatever, CE is living well, and it's never intended to be a full blown OS like windows phone.
    No, I was trying (and failed, apparently ) to simplify explaining it for the audience here.
  8. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    62 Posts
    Global Posts
    89 Global Posts
    #33  
    Perception is just as important as reality, perception can become reality. MS is failing miserably in perception, my Android phone has had two updates ICS & JB. People don't care why they don't get an update, just that they don't get it.
  9. #34  
    Every windows phone 8 device will get supported at least 18months...which is a year and a half.
    This is what Microsoft said. So whatever updates or fixes they do within that time frame every phone will get.
  10. cameradork's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    561 Posts
    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Guy 4567 View Post
    Perception is just as important as reality, perception can become reality. MS is failing miserably in perception, my Android phone has had two updates ICS & JB. People don't care why they don't get an update, just that they don't get it.
    That's a very new concept to Android. Until recently, Google was the only company that supported their hardware for more than a month or two after release. If I had received more than one update to my Droid 2 Global (seven months after they released it with broken email due to unremovable Moto crapware), I probably wouldn't have been as tempted to switch to WP. After Google got their ducks in order and the OS stabilized with ICS, updates became much less of an issue because - as mentioned before - there really isn't much of a material difference between the new versions now - it's really just refinement.

    Unfortunately MS isn't great at handling PR the way Apple (*$&% you, you're using it wrong) or Google (&*$% you, we're smarter than you and know where you live) does. They're also later to the game than iOS and Android were, so now that people are coming from and used to more mature OS, they have less patience for early adopter issues.
  11. ryker002's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    149 Posts
    Global Posts
    182 Global Posts
    #36  
    Considering how WP8 just came out its gonna be awhile for an update to 9. And I mean a couple years. If they do come with one im certain WP or at least high end WP8 devices will get the update.

    Just remember. Updates are no longer just sent out through the network provider, but through the market place.

    Rumor is that we could be getting blue through the market. I don't know about that.
    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
  12. Chregu's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    7,509 Posts
    Global Posts
    7,539 Global Posts
    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryker002 View Post
    Just remember. Updates are no longer just sent out through the network provider, but through the market place.
    ...what?
  13. ryker002's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    149 Posts
    Global Posts
    182 Global Posts
    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    ...what?
    If you haven't already noticed getting all your minor fixes through the marketplace.... WPCentral always makes a blog post about whenever they send one out.
  14. Chregu's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    7,509 Posts
    Global Posts
    7,539 Global Posts
    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryker002 View Post
    If you haven't already noticed getting all your minor fixes through the marketplace.... WPCentral always makes a blog post about whenever they send one out.
    Some company specific settings that are implemented as apps, yes. But I have never gotten a system update, or I am absolutely oblivious here.

    This was already in WP7.
  15. pjs37's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    449 Posts
    Global Posts
    459 Global Posts
    #40  
    Microsoft promised 18 months (at least) for new WP8 devices. Take that for what you will (Let us not forget we were also supposed to be able to bypass carriers for updates and other things that never came true) but that was the official line from MS on the topic. Whether or not that means we will get Blue I think it means we do but again we won't know for sure until it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryker002 View Post
    Considering how WP8 just came out its gonna be awhile for an update to 9. And I mean a couple years. If they do come with one im certain WP or at least high end WP8 devices will get the update.

    Just remember. Updates are no longer just sent out through the network provider, but through the market place.

    Rumor is that we could be getting blue through the market. I don't know about that.
    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
    Some programs will be updated through the marketplace it seems to be mainly the manufacturer specific apps but System Updates you need to go to the Settings -> System Update option. And it still relies on your carrier allowing you to get it.
  16. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoftjunkie View Post
    Every windows phone 8 device will get supported at least 18months... <snipped>... So whatever updates or fixes they do within that time frame every phone will get.
    I am sure WP8 will get OS updates for at least 18 months, but I don't think that means what you are implying.

    MS' statement leaves two ways for WP8 not to get updated to WP9, without MS breaking any promises. WP9 might release only after 18 months have passed (Q2 2014), or alternatively, WP9 could release tomorrow, while WP8 continues to receive updates for the promised duration. The later is exactly how MS has dealt with WP7.x, BTW.

    As always, I'm just using WP9 as a generic name for that update which WP8 devices no longer receive. Whatever it ends up being called is irrelevant in this context.
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-25-2013 at 05:20 PM. Reason: clarifications throughout
  17. jhoff80's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,108 Posts
    Global Posts
    8,087 Global Posts
    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    I am sure WP8 will get OS updates for at least 18 months, but when has MS ever said WP8 devices will get EVERY update during that time?
    Come on, that's what that vaporware enthusiast early access program is for, obviously.

    Clearly they've completely fixed the problem since all of us have gotten our updates so fast.
  18. Jaskys's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    603 Posts
    Global Posts
    604 Global Posts
    #43  
    WP8 devices will keep getting updates till we have huge kernel and hardware changes with new phones, that's kinda simple.
  19. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Come on, that's what that vaporware enthusiast early access program is for, obviously.

    Clearly they've completely fixed the problem since all of us have gotten our updates so fast.
    Not sure how that relates to my post you quoted, but yeah, MS' WP8 update procedure is completely screwed up, at least from an enthusiasts perspective. *cry*
  20. jhoff80's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,108 Posts
    Global Posts
    8,087 Global Posts
    #45  
    It was a reference to us being able to force all the updates over the 18 months if we were in the 'enthusiast program' they gave a passing reference about at their event and then it was never heard of ever again. :D
  21. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    It was a reference to us being able to force all the updates over the 18 months if we were in the 'enthusiast program' they gave a passing reference about at their event and then it was never heard of ever again. :D
    Ah, yes, absolutely. Apparently they screwed us on that one. However, that is an entirely different and most unfortunate problem.

    What I was saying is that MS can simultaneously release WP9 at any time and not provide that to WP8 devices, meaning WP8 would not get EVERY update. Important is only that MS continues to provide updates to WP8 for the promised duration. MS wouldn't be breaking any promises with that approach.
  22. travisel's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    182 Posts
    Global Posts
    183 Global Posts
    #47  
    Windows Phone 8 is ARMv7 technology and will continue to use next generation Snapdragon 600/800 series SOC processor's.

    Next generation Windows Phone 9 will be 64-bit! Now they could go with ARMv8 or Intel 64? If they go with ARMv8 technology like the upcoming "Nvidia Tegra 5" SOC processor, Then have full backwards compatibility with ARMv7 WP8 software platform. But if they go with Intel 64 (x86-64) technology they could go with upcoming "Intel Atom Bay Trail" SOC processor but then would lose all backwards compatibility with ARMv7 WP8 software platform!

    So what's Microsoft going to use for next generation WP9?

    - ARMv8 ? (RISC)

    - Intel 64 ? (CISC)

    Windows Phone 9 time frame should be around Q4 2014? 😎
    ATIV S is LIFE
  23. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    What's Microsoft going to use for next generation WP9?
    1)
    The x86 / ARMv7 incompatibilities aren't the problem you think they are. Microsoft has already solved this for W8RT. The same app runs on both CPU architectures. That will work for WP8 apps too.

    2)
    I hope Microsoft doesn't go for any of the platforms you mentioned. I would prefer WP9 to run on the 14nm successor of Intel's Merrifield SoC. That would also be out much sooner than Q4 2014.
  24. travisel's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    182 Posts
    Global Posts
    183 Global Posts
    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    1)
    The x86 / ARMv7 incompatibilities aren't the problem you think they are. Microsoft has already solved this for W8RT. The same app runs on both CPU architectures. That will work for WP8 apps too.

    2)
    I hope Microsoft doesn't go for any of the platforms you mentioned. I would prefer WP9 to run on the 14nm successor of Intel's Merrifield SoC. That would also be out much sooner than Q4 2014.
    Windows RT is ARMv7 Technology and can't use x86 or x86-64 so Microsoft did not solve the problem!

    ARMv7 is 32-bit only! Next generation ARMv8 is 64-bit and Microsoft would have to make Windows RT64 to use ARMv8 software! Good thing is that ARMv8 is backwards compatible with ARMv7.

    14nm Airmont SOC Intel Atom won't be ready in 2014! But Intel will have 22nm Silvermont SOC "Bay Trail" Intel Atom.

    The future is 64-bit! SOC, ultra low power, Quad-Core/Octa-Core processor's with Direct-X 11.1/OpenGL 4.3 graphics, Cad 5 LTE, Wi-Fi a/c built in! 😎
    ATIV S is LIFE
  25. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    Windows RT is ARMv7 Technology and can't use x86 or x86-64 so Microsoft did not solve the problem!
    I thought you were previously talking about apps. Sorry. Windows store apps run on both x86 and ARMv7. That is what I meant was solved.

    What you are referring to, is that ability of the OS itself to run on different CPU architectures. However, that too is solved, thanks to the shared and portable Windows kernel that's been discussed in the media this last while. The whole point of a kernel is to abstract away the differences in CPU architectures, so the software layers above it can ignore those differences. As it turns out, W8RT is just a subset of W8. That subset is already installed as part of every single W8 installation, so technically, we already have W8RT running on x86.

    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    14nm Airmont SOC Intel Atom won't be ready in 2014! But Intel will have 22nm Silvermont SOC "Bay Trail" Intel Atom!
    What I find on the web doesn't agree with you. That might have been true at one point, but Intel is speeding things up on the low-power side to defend better against ARM. Intel is delivering 14nm based parts for testing in less than four months. 14nm production will ramp up this year. Parts will be launched in 2014, possibly even early 2014.

    Just as Merrifield is part of the Silvermont family, the successor to Merrififled will be part of the Airmont family, but it won't ship under that name. That SoC hasn't yet been announced and doesn't have a publicly disclosed codename.
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Will 512 MB RAM be enough for non-flagship WP8 devices??
    By Ash_Biz in forum Upcoming & Rumored Devices
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-24-2013, 11:55 AM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-25-2013, 01:45 AM
  3. Will WP8 deliver a file manager or download capability?
    By sirosisofliver in forum Windows Phone 7
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-06-2012, 08:48 PM
  4. Maybe this will be Samsung's WP8 device
    By AKA Preluva in forum Upcoming & Rumored Devices
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-21-2012, 08:05 AM
  5. WILL Sprint be getting anymore WP7 devices??
    By AlexanderMatthews in forum Upcoming & Rumored Devices
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-10-2012, 08:30 PM

Posting Permissions