Yesterday 09:58 PM
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  1. mrpuny's Avatar
    I understand and was half joking. For those consumers who use these apps I get it, though I am not into the store loyalty programs because they are just there to benefit the store, not the consumer.
    There is no way MS can focus on these types of consumer centric apps right now. They are focused on businesses, schools, and the future of mobile tech. Android and iPhone will continue to own the consumer market for the near future.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    It's not Microsoft's job to focus on 3rd party consumer centric or even business centric apps. But if they want to compete in this space in a platform sense, they need to come up with something compelling so there are users who will create an organic demand and developers who will create an organic supply (i.e. not depend on Microsoft paying them to make a half-hearted app).

    The whole topic of this thread is what would make a former Windows phone user that's left the platform come back. In my case, I've pretty much left, but I still hold out a glimmer of hope (and a toe in the water) because, all things being equal, I'd prefer to stay with a Windows 10 based mobile device. But currently things aren't all equal between platforms.

    It's anecdotal, but the Windows focused reporters and bloggers (people like Thurrot, Mary Jo Foley, Dan Rubino, etc.) have mentioned for a couple of years now that the vast majority of Microsoft employees at events and on campus are not using Windows-based phones but rather iOS and Android. I've seen nothing that would make me believe otherwise. And I'm sure that's because of the same general basket of reasons that the broader market isn't buying Win10M either. I think there's a significant number of things that have to happen to turn that around either in the enterprise segment or the consumer segment. And I could come up with a list of specific things that I would need and want addressed, but that's me and someone else will have their own list of specifics. And those specifics will possibly change over time as technology and markets develop. Also with their numerous resets, I'm not likely to run off and purchase Microsoft's next big thing, no matter how cool it appears at launch, because I don't have faith that they'll stick with something. So I've simplified it down to a heuristic of using Microsoft internal adoption as a sort of canary in the coal mine. If a significant number Microsoft employees see a future in their own platform and/or have found their collective pain points have been addressed to use the platform, then I'll consider coming back.
    04-29-2017 11:38 AM
  2. mrpuny's Avatar
    I think that burger app is important as an example though. An android/iOS user simply generally doesn't need to worry about the fact that this single store they love to patronize has an app that gives them a benefit for their loyalty has an app and that app will work on their platform. This type of thing happens all the time every day. You may not need any apps or you may not care but someone out there cares and with Windows Phone you got a good chance it won't have an app. Companies invest in an app for their customers and if they can cover 99% of their customers with Android and iOS why invest money in Windows Phone (I am sorry "Windows Mobile)? They won't. They don't care about the future that maybe; or the fact that maybe in 20 years we won't even be using phones (or maybe we will)

    That is in fact the app gap problem with Windows. Sure you got Snapchat and what not being an issue as well. But death by a thousand cuts in this case also hurts.
    Exactly, I just used the burger app as an example of a particularly odd niche app that isn't available on the Windows platform. And even there, I only referenced one feature of it. Another one: it lets them push notifications out to their customers through it. They're a small operation - just one permanent location and a food truck that they set up around town from time to time, so they use that feature to broadcast where and when they'll be set up. They also just had an issue where they had to close up for a day due to plumbing issues, and sent a notification out. I wasn't planning on going there that day, but if I was, it would have saved me a disappointing trip. It's like a very targeted version of Facebook or twitter without the info getting buried amongst a bunch of other content.

    Long before "there's an app for that", Windows was the "there's a program for that" platform where no matter what you wanted to do, there were probably multiple applications that could do it. The ones claiming they didn't need much choice in applications were the Mac users. It's definitely going to take time to alter this situation in mobile, if it's even possible.

    But it didn't happen overnight either. My biggest concern is that Microsoft tends to not do a good job of maintaining and leveraging what they already have as they move forward, which is why it often seems that Microsoft is resetting rather than transitioning. It seems to me that a lot of people look at Apple's success with the iPhone for example and conclude that you just need a "wow" device and a marketing blitz to be successful. But I think that ignores the historical context of the iPhone. When it launched, it had the wow factor, sure, but it was a limited device. Basically a feature phone with only built-in apps. But the built in apps leveraged a lot of work that Apple had put into past products. It had iTunes support, so it leveraged all the media iPod owners invested in, as well as the goodwill Apple built with that product line. It had a (for the time) amazing browser that leveraged the effort they put into developing Safari to lessen their dependence on Internet Explorer on the desktop. And they leveraged their then good relationship with Google to have great (again for the time) YouTube and Google Maps apps. Without all that, I doubt the iPhone would have been anywhere near as successful.
    04-29-2017 02:50 PM
  3. pjs37's Avatar
    Exactly, I just used the burger app as an example of a particularly odd niche app that isn't available on the Windows platform. And even there, I only referenced one feature of it. Another one: it lets them push notifications out to their customers through it. They're a small operation - just one permanent location and a food truck that they set up around town from time to time, so they use that feature to broadcast where and when they'll be set up. They also just had an issue where they had to close up for a day due to plumbing issues, and sent a notification out. I wasn't planning on going there that day, but if I was, it would have saved me a disappointing trip. It's like a very targeted version of Facebook or twitter without the info getting buried amongst a bunch of other content.

    Long before "there's an app for that", Windows was the "there's a program for that" platform where no matter what you wanted to do, there were probably multiple applications that could do it. The ones claiming they didn't need much choice in applications were the Mac users. It's definitely going to take time to alter this situation in mobile, if it's even possible.

    But it didn't happen overnight either. My biggest concern is that Microsoft tends to not do a good job of maintaining and leveraging what they already have as they move forward, which is why it often seems that Microsoft is resetting rather than transitioning. It seems to me that a lot of people look at Apple's success with the iPhone for example and conclude that you just need a "wow" device and a marketing blitz to be successful. But I think that ignores the historical context of the iPhone. When it launched, it had the wow factor, sure, but it was a limited device. Basically a feature phone with only built-in apps. But the built in apps leveraged a lot of work that Apple had put into past products. It had iTunes support, so it leveraged all the media iPod owners invested in, as well as the goodwill Apple built with that product line. It had a (for the time) amazing browser that leveraged the effort they put into developing Safari to lessen their dependence on Internet Explorer on the desktop. And they leveraged their then good relationship with Google to have great (again for the time) YouTube and Google Maps apps. Without all that, I doubt the iPhone would have been anywhere near as successful.
    It's funny my foray into mobile devices starts with PDAs like Handspring Visors and Pocket PC's but on the mobile net side it was the iPhone that made me jump over and the sole reason I felt it was revolutionary at the time was because Safari provided the real internet. It cannot be said enough how bad WAP internet was at the time. Apps were a big concern given that other more established smart phones could install all sorts of apps but the fact we could surf the web was amazing. And the idea was at the time people would just make mobile web apps. Which is where we are heading it was just an idea the world was not comfortable with.

    The 3 different resets and MS basically falling all the way back to non-existence in the mobile world makes it unlikely they will succeed in the mobile phone market. I don't know what the future will hold for mobile devices but hopefully they don't miss the boat this time.
    04-29-2017 03:37 PM
  4. Judy Misquitta's Avatar
    Hey my name's Gary (have passed my Lumia 950XL onto my mom to replace her older Lumia basic model)...
    Used to go by the name GBoyNWC in forums...but currently using my mom's id to put my views down...I hope it's taken seriously as I got very disappointed with the Win 10 mobile OS...

    I used to be a super fan of Nokia, and have owned only these all my life...right from the 3310, 3300, NGAGE, 6600, etc , Lumia with the Windows OS was an awesome OS...up until Windows 10...which I would say is the best Microsoft OS till date. The ONLY thing and actually the MAIN thing was the fluidity of the OS with the actual phone itself...plus issues with bad battery life, etc.

    Just switched to the iPhone 7 Plus....and boy was I AMAZED...not just the fluidity between the iOS and the hardware, not just the apps, but the speed and ease of the user experience...also holding that phone in my hand feels like an awesomely premium phone....I really wished Microsoft would've made the 950 XL more premium in every way....I am using my mom's ID here as the Windows Central App on the iOS doesn't recognize my password lol 😁 for some strange reason...and even though I've reset it, it doesn't let me login....def seems deliberate...is the Microsoft n Apple tension messing with Microsoft users? I really feel so...

    What would make me vet back to Microsoft Windows or Surface Phone (if that's even gonna happen)? I don't know...if it supercedes both the Android n iOS systems, hardware, and the apps in everyway...THEN maybe...
    NOT if the hardware rocks but the OS is still not there completely...that REALLY sucks...and it's a slap to those who believed and invested hard earned money into the premium phones such as the 950 XL...
    All I can say is GET IT RIGHT and AWESOME AT THE FIRST GO ITSELF...and then get better with the updates etc (not a half-assed, sub standard OS at the start and then improve later). Imagine having to wait for months or a year for your favourite OS to give you the best experience
    04-29-2017 10:00 PM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    Where did I say I was perfectly happy with Android? Oh that's right, I didn't. Do you have anything substantive to say, or are you just limited to straw man arguments?
    Yeah. Hope your having a lovely day/evening :)
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-30-2017 06:31 AM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    I understand and was half joking. For those consumers who use these apps I get it, though I am not into the store loyalty programs because they are just there to benefit the store, not the consumer.
    There is no way MS can focus on these types of consumer centric apps right now. They are focused on businesses, schools, and the future of mobile tech. Android and iPhone will continue to own the consumer market for the near future.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Probably it wouldn't hurt to be making _a_ phone. Maybe just a nice midteir phone even, push some units. I mean, they still make 5 million a quarter from phones, and the bottom has dropped out even of the big markets like Australia, Italy etc. One phone would signal to consumers "hey we are still here", and help keep the "life support" going until the other bigger screen devices can come into play.

    Things have gone dramatically down hill, just this last few months (I mean outside of the context of the drop off, the sale of nokia, has really done a number on sales in big windows phone areas)

    Trouble is, there is no way they should/could make that phone themselves, given the commercial disaster that was nokia. The shareholders would never have it.

    Things may well bounce back on their own, if their non-phone mobile plans take off, Cortana etc. MS has some great strategies and if they pay off, there is still a chance for MS Windows in the pocket or on the wrist etc. In fact who knows how well they could pay off really, things like flexible oled, machine learning, convergence. Could be meteoric even. Or not.
    But it does seem like they should have licensed a third party when nokia was bust, to make phones for them at no cost to them, just a phone here or there to sustain some of what exists. I guess such thing probably generally stretch on longer than MS wants. They probably want their strategems to pay off in a scale of 2-4 years, and have that momentum to strike their competitors
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-30-2017 at 07:01 AM.
    04-30-2017 06:45 AM
  7. cawoodstock's Avatar
    Apps. Knowing that the app will be there when somebody tells me about it instead of knowing it probably won't...
    gentry33 likes this.
    05-01-2017 05:13 PM
  8. iyae's Avatar
    I seriously think MS need to suck it up and allow android apps to run on windows 10 for ARM. If they care about users (they don't). I'd come straight back for that. I'm sorry but I love having all the apps now on my S8
    pjs37 likes this.
    05-03-2017 03:12 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I seriously think MS need to suck it up and allow android apps to run on windows 10 for ARM. If they care about users (they don't). I'd come straight back for that. I'm sorry but I love having all the apps now on my S8
    Full windows 10 power apps replaced by freemium android apps. A chromeOS and some extra ads sprinkled ontop for every business free of charge, and locked down walled garden iOS everywhere you go, as a perk of the job. Forget gaming, all we want, all day, is candy crush, and any game you play should always charge your credit card every time you breathe. Productivity? Creativity? smash that, all we want is GPS locations of the nearest toilet, and a share economy for cheaping out on hotels.

    That sounds truly like a paradise, sir ;)

    No sorry for the bitter sarcasm, but that would seriously make me feel nauseous. I like android apps, but if they replaced full windows software, I think I would die a little inside. No thanks. I'd rather they promote UWP.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-03-2017 at 09:24 AM.
    05-03-2017 09:13 AM
  10. Xaxxus's Avatar
    They don't have to bring me back because I'm still in it.

    For the other fans however, I think a simple announcement of new nice mid-range hardware (does not have to be the Surface Phone) should be enough to entice the die hard fans back. This little move will inform the fans that MS is still serious about the market.

    Heck, if MS invests the $1.1m Greg Murphy needs for the Cerulean Mobile, that will get fans interested.
    IMO I don't think the Cerulean Moment phone is going to bring anyone back. Its a mid-range device that doesn't bring anything extraordinary to the table.

    The only thing that's going save windows mobile at this point is windows on ARM. The app gap means nothing if you can just run any application.
    05-04-2017 09:58 PM
  11. Adam Drew's Avatar
    I made the hard decision to switch from a 950 to the Galaxy S8. It would take 2 things to get me back to Windows 10 mobile: major stability fixes, and an Android VM or compatibility layer.

    Stability and bug fixes should be priority 1. One of the main reasons I left was my phone's total unreliability. Whether it was the browser, the keyboard, first party apps, third party apps, it didn't matter - everything crashed, locked up, or hung multiple times a day, and often when I needed it most!

    Getting Android apps running natively on W10 should be the next priority. There are just too many obstinately and irrationally anti-MS devs out there. There is literally nothing MS can do to win developers over. MS needs to be crafty here and just steal Google's ecosystem. They should do what Amazon did, but better and more extreme. They need to build a layer like WSL but for Android to run Android apps unmodified on Windows. Then partner aggressively and steal Google ecosystem.

    Until MS does these things I don't think I can return. The app gap isn't just about what apps are available, but the quality and features of those apps. That's a battle MS cannot win with their current way of thinking. That, and stability is paramount.
    05-05-2017 01:22 PM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    "Whether it was the browser, the keyboard, first party apps, third party apps, it didn't matter - everything crashed, locked up, or hung multiple times a day, and often when I needed it most!"

    Sounds like you had a dud. Glad you're enjoying your new device though.


    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    libra89 likes this.
    05-05-2017 04:18 PM
  13. sjactivity's Avatar
    Iam left with no choice. Microsoft doesn't fully support enterprise office365 app on WM. Hence my company has pulled out supporting office365 emails on windows mobiles and I now have to move to android to get my emails. The company data on WM is not fully protected unless you use an android or iPhone for office365 apps.
    05-12-2017 01:43 AM
  14. garisa's Avatar
    But aren't you able to setup any email account in Outlook Mail as IMAP?

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    05-13-2017 07:43 AM
  15. Manus Imperceptus's Avatar
    I've always loved my Windows phones, with the exception of my 620 (which was a temporary solution waiting for the 1520) and my 630 work phone. Since my 950XL was killed, I've been sporting an Axon 7, and so far Android has not bowled me over, to say the least. I just love the overall look and feel of the Windows UI! Alas, MS have been negligent in the extreme with their phone efforts, so coming back would take two things; dedication from MS and proper high end hardware. Full Windows on ARM on capable software would be fabulous, particularly if they could magic up a practical scaling form factor for a 3-in-1 phone/tablet/pc!
    05-17-2017 01:37 AM
  16. Kieran Jeffery's Avatar
    For me, the App gap finally became too much. Logging in to my bank through the web browser was tedious, as was paypal. I've just this month moved to Android and I haven't been back to my 950 since. I do miss the Live tiles and Cortana is much better on the 950, but being able to use my phone for contactless payments, having the banking apps log in seamlessly with fingerprint, and having a wealth of devices to choose from. (I went with the HTC 10).

    Bring all that to WP and I'll be back in a flash.
    Yesterday 09:58 PM
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