05-05-2017 09:16 PM
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  1. kuau's Avatar
    I purchased a like new 950 for $200 on eBay loved it yet I decided I wanted the larger screen on the 950 XL so I was able to return the 950 and I just purchase a lightly used 950 XL for $225 looking forward on trying it out.
    I think amazon has new 950 XL for $318
    TgeekB likes this.
    05-02-2017 01:03 PM
  2. Richard Toft's Avatar
    Hello guys!!

    I have been using android for many years and lately i have noticed a severe dicline in quality and usability. I have been wanting to switch several times bow and since i just crushed the screen on my note 5, i am seriously thinking into investing in a WP10. I have been reading up a lot and cant seem to be able to filter the crap from the truth about the future of WP. I want to jump to the platfprm now via a used lumia or something else, so when surface phone comes out i will be fully enveloped inot the ecosystem. However is there a future windows phone? Should i switch or stay android?

    Please advise, what is yiur perception of whats going on.

    P.s app gap is NO issue for me, after so many years of android and its amazing app market i have realized, everyone (be honest with yourself) uses very few apps, and for the rest we go online any way! Not to mention that 99.9% of all apps are just portals! Furthermore I am IT pro and use MS everytging but phone.
    05-02-2017 02:08 PM
  3. Richard Toft's Avatar
    Currently I see no reason to switch at the moment my 950 is great it takes great pictures the os is great and its pretty secure. Today while showing a colleague some pictures she enquired about my phone where could she buy one, and I was stumped on how to respond as a device its excellent the os is good and secure but with windows 10 mobile in flux I'm not sure what to advise.
    As for myself I don't trust android devices I don't like ios so for the time being I'm staying with Windows Mobile.
    TgeekB likes this.
    05-02-2017 02:18 PM
  4. Prjman's Avatar
    Unfortunately, I just switched from my 950XL to an Galaxy S8. In my opinion, it's pretty obvious that MS has put Windows 10 Mobile on end of life care.

    It works, and I loved it, but even today's show reinforced their lack of support for their own UWP platform. Simply importing Win32 apps, using the Desktop bridge, into the store does not help the situation on the mobile computing side, whether phone or laptop.

    It's a shame, really, but MS has stopped supporting their phone platform, and I see no reason for me to continue if they aren't.

    Long term, I do see them coming out with a Phablet type device running full Windows 10 on Arm. That being said, that device will not cater to a mobile phone user, and will instead be an enterprise focused device. Versatile, yes, but not focused enough on mobile to make it practical for a consumer oriented phone.

    Frankly, even longer term, I think Android will end up being the consumer OS of choice. I've used Windows my whole computing life, but MS's choice realistically end their mobile aspirations will make them increasingly less relevant in the consumer space..
    05-02-2017 02:47 PM
  5. TgeekB's Avatar
    Sorry, but there just isn't a reason to switch to Windows Mobile in 2017. iOS and Android offer better hardware selections. The lack of top apps may not be a big deal, until, you fine that 1 app that you need and it isn't available. Lastly, Microsoft has positioned themselves in a place that their ecosystem has a footprint on both competing platforms.
    For you. That's doesn't mean everyone feels that way. I came from Android, you can have it. Don't miss it at all.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    05-02-2017 03:14 PM
  6. Leandro Brandao's Avatar
    I don't see the point of buying a windows phone now.
    If you want try something new, try iOS.
    In my opinion all apps are better in iOS or android even the Microsoft ones.
    Everything you do in Windows phone takes more steps than the other mobile os.
    My opinion is based on my father and my stepmother whe were using Windows phones for years, and this week I bought them two moto G5 plus and they say everything is much easier to do.
    Also google apps, none are available in wp and for me is a big deal.
    05-02-2017 03:27 PM
  7. jrb363's Avatar
    Hello guys!!

    I have been using android for many years and lately i have noticed a severe dicline in quality and usability. I have been wanting to switch several times bow and since i just crushed the screen on my note 5, i am seriously thinking into investing in a WP10. I have been reading up a lot and cant seem to be able to filter the crap from the truth about the future of WP. I want to jump to the platfprm now via a used lumia or something else, so when surface phone comes out i will be fully enveloped inot the ecosystem. However is there a future windows phone? Should i switch or stay android?

    Please advise, what is yiur perception of whats going on.

    P.s app gap is NO issue for me, after so many years of android and its amazing app market i have realized, everyone (be honest with yourself) uses very few apps, and for the rest we go online any way! Not to mention that 99.9% of all apps are just portals! Furthermore I am IT pro and use MS everytging but phone.
    You can pick up new/gently used 950XL phones for sub-$300 regularly and the 950 for as low as $200. For those prices alone it's worth testing out and seeing if you'll enjoy it.

    What sold me on the phone and keeps me from switching is:

    + Product integration: (I own/use Windows 10 Pro on desktop, Surface Pro, Luma 950XL and Microsoft Band)
    (Note: I realize I'm probably in the minority, even here, with my Windows lifestyle integration but, truly, it 'just works' the way Steve Jobs used to talk about Apple. Microsoft really does have a strong ecosystem overall...they just do a terrible job in promoting the possibilities. )

    + Camera: It's truly the best camera I've ever seen on a phone. I haven't tested the new Galaxy S8 yet but, for my eyes, the Lumia 950XL still beats every other phone on the market...nearly 2 years later. That's damn impressive.

    + Speed: The phone is still very fast and I haven't had any problems with slowdown after using it for over a year. It's one powerful piece of tech!

    + Updates: Microsoft is committed to at least updating the platform. I do have confidence that we will see support at least thru the end of 2018. Why? I don't know...mainly I guess due to the upcoming Windows + ARM (mobile) reorganization. I see them using the 950/950XL as a test bed before releasing something new mid-2018.

    + Battery Life: I can get 2 days with moderate use and easily one full day using medium brightness + heavy internet/camera usage.

    - 3rd party apps: Obviously this has been an achilles heel for Microsoft for a long time. However, if you're not a gamer or into 'trendy' apps (Snap Chat, etc) you can pretty much get by. I use the phone constantly and just load regular web-pages for news, banking, etc without a problem.

    I'd rate the platform a solid 80/100 overall combining hardware + software and I believe, if you can get a good deal on a phone, it's well worth picking up!
    Last edited by jrb363; 05-02-2017 at 04:57 PM.
    TgeekB likes this.
    05-02-2017 04:22 PM
  8. Rik0891's Avatar
    Hello guys!!

    I have been using android for many years and lately i have noticed a severe dicline in quality and usability. I have been wanting to switch several times bow and since i just crushed the screen on my note 5, i am seriously thinking into investing in a WP10. I have been reading up a lot and cant seem to be able to filter the crap from the truth about the future of WP. I want to jump to the platfprm now via a used lumia or something else, so when surface phone comes out i will be fully enveloped inot the ecosystem. However is there a future windows phone? Should i switch or stay android?

    Please advise, what is yiur perception of whats going on.

    P.s app gap is NO issue for me, after so many years of android and its amazing app market i have realized, everyone (be honest with yourself) uses very few apps, and for the rest we go online any way! Not to mention that 99.9% of all apps are just portals! Furthermore I am IT pro and use MS everytging but phone.
    Yes, you should if you do not get bored of interface very often. Unlike custom ROM situation for Android, Windows UI is pretty much "locked" save different colors. One of the primary reason Droid-based devices do well is customizability. Do you think Android would be this successful without that? Windows mobile has genuinely a very streamlined and user friendly ecosystem and, more importantly, all your "average" apps that Android has. The only gripe and deciding factor would be Google Maps vs Bing maps for you. Maps is one of the main reasons I stay away from Windows phone. Otherwise, it is absolutely fulfilling in terms of needs and day2day usage
    05-02-2017 06:58 PM
  9. steadydon's Avatar
    Windows Phone is great and I hate to but I'm abandoning the platform. If you don't mind wondering if at any time the platform my just come a complete stop, then by all means jump in. I've waited for two years for a solid direction but none has come. I had to send my Alcatel 4S back because it was defective so I"ll just take my 640 and 640XL charge em up and put em away in a drawer. Since I'm not a $500 plus phone buying kinda guy I' stick with my idol Pro 3. Great little phone IMHO.
    05-02-2017 07:23 PM
  10. Liam Ke's Avatar
    For me it is all about the apps. Check if all the apps that you use are available, and are of the same quality and features. Perhaps it will be only one or two important apps that will be missing and that will make the difference.
    05-02-2017 07:44 PM
  11. SrinivasaNarayanan's Avatar
    Wonderful decision.. I have been a Windows phone user from HTC Windows phone days... The UI and the Windows experience has mesmerised me and have been using windows phone for quite sometime. Recently I shifted to Android device because the battery of my L950 started to drain off quite rapidly. But my hear still beats for Windows phone and invariably every time I read a post about Windows phone, I get the urge to switch back and I am sure will do ONE DAY !
    05-02-2017 08:19 PM
  12. Bobby Salvin's Avatar
    What is Windows phone?
    05-02-2017 09:42 PM
  13. regi7's Avatar
    You know, just don't. App gap aside, windows 10 mobile just doesn't work as smoothly as it used to. Apparently, that has been getting better recently, but I didn't realize how good the other platforms were at just doing what I wanted them to do. I didn't realize how much I was just tolerating until I moved onto Android. And I don't regret it at all. The number of apps is not the main issue, although it is A main issue. The quality of the current apps is what really frustrates me. And the fact that it's just not as smooth or fast as Windows Phone 8.1. If you want to experiment, be my guest. But I do not recommend it.

    Hello guys!!

    I have been using android for many years and lately i have noticed a severe dicline in quality and usability. I have been wanting to switch several times bow and since i just crushed the screen on my note 5, i am seriously thinking into investing in a WP10. I have been reading up a lot and cant seem to be able to filter the crap from the truth about the future of WP. I want to jump to the platfprm now via a used lumia or something else, so when surface phone comes out i will be fully enveloped inot the ecosystem. However is there a future windows phone? Should i switch or stay android?

    Please advise, what is yiur perception of whats going on.

    P.s app gap is NO issue for me, after so many years of android and its amazing app market i have realized, everyone (be honest with yourself) uses very few apps, and for the rest we go online any way! Not to mention that 99.9% of all apps are just portals! Furthermore I am IT pro and use MS everytging but phone.
    05-02-2017 10:38 PM
  14. jasqid's Avatar
    I have used window phones since the HTC arrive on sprint. Currently have an Alcatel idol 4s on tmo and an iPhone 6s plus. I swap my sim back and forth depending on need and just what I feel like using. I have to say Windows Mobile has declined. Sure down vote me all you want but I have used it long enough to see it first hand. I would recommend them in the past but not to any family or friends now.

    I would strongly recommend you stay where you are at for the time being and wait to see where Microsoft mobile is q4 this year or even q1 of 18.

    Sent from mTalk
    05-02-2017 10:52 PM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    I have used window phones since the HTC arrive on sprint. Currently have an Alcatel idol 4s on tmo and an iPhone 6s plus. I swap my sim back and forth depending on need and just what I feel like using. I have to say Windows Mobile has declined. Sure down vote me all you want but I have used it long enough to see it first hand. I would recommend them in the past but not to any family or friends now.

    I would strongly recommend you stay where you are at for the time being and wait to see where Microsoft mobile is q4 this year or even q1 of 18.

    Sent from mTalk
    Your expecting sales to improve with no new handsets?
    05-02-2017 11:51 PM
  16. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    Switch to Windows....IF YOU ARE CRAZY.
    05-03-2017 01:37 AM
  17. yayh's Avatar
    Hello

    I have L950 the email and calendar is the best user experience you can get on a mobile phone


    Thanks,
    Yousef
    Drael646464 and Guytronic like this.
    05-03-2017 06:48 AM
  18. _incanter_'s Avatar
    Sigh... I do not know who introduced the term "App gap", but it does serious disservice to the reasonable discussion. Someone says "app gap is not an issue for me", but I am sure he/she does not mean "I am OK with the feature phone". What the person, likely, means is "I hope that all the apps, I am using now and will be using throughout the lifetime of the phone, are going to be present and whatever is not, could be supplemented by the built-in ones like the web browser or standard mail client".

    So, given that feature phone is not cutting it for you, think about it that way: "Am I ready to stop being able to communicate with the liberal/security conscious part of my friends and family when they switch to Signal because media tells them that in the age of the mass snooping this is the *only* secure messaging platform?". "Will I never want a wearable device?". "Will I never want to have alerts from my AmEx card on my phone?". "Will I never want to pay for something with my phone?" "Will I never connect to the OpenVPN?". This is but a small sample of the things, people tend not to put into the "app gap" category.

    To me, more appropriate way to think about it is the "service gap" -- what services you are not going to miss if they are not available on the Windows today or will disappear in the short term. And, if your answer is: "I am not going to miss any of them" or even "I can do all I want with the web browser", ask yourself why not feature phone.

    Those, who feel that I have slighted their beloved platform, now is the time to break out pitchforks :)
    05-03-2017 03:07 PM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    "Am I ready to stop being able to communicate with the liberal/security conscious part of my friends and family when they switch to Signal because media tells them that in the age of the mass snooping this is the *only* secure messaging platform?"
    That's kinda a weird sentence. Not sure where to start with that one! Ignoring the rest, as I understand it, signal is not the only encrypted messaging platform.

    Win10m supports my wearable device. Never going to use signal. Never going to use OpenVPN (or any vpn, no need to use public wifi when you have network access and wifi at home/office/friends). My card has paywave, and I'd rather have a smartring with paywave than a phone if I was going to not use my card (ring is more convenient/easier to carry than a phone. If your using your phone, you may as well be using a card. No real difference). I'm sure amex could do text alerts (my bank does), but I don't use that card anyway.

    Anyway, I'm sure we will get more UWA over time, not less. WoA is coming, windows s is nearly out. Spotify and mega are coming to the platform.

    There's the misperception UWP is a phone platform. It's not. It's just an early platform that MS is still building up.

    Perhaps you might get that perspective from win 8/8.1 as a phone user, especially as some people have jumped ship on their 8.1 apps (probably like others misperceiving it as a phone platform). But that's not how this platform is being expanded, not via phones, but rather via notebooks and tablets primarily, and also to a lesser degree, console and pc. Via the unified platform.

    And that's why we are getting more apps coming to the platform. When WoA comes out and delivers LTE/GPS/Calling standard to tablets and notebooks running windows, the demand for apps centered around those features will obviously go up. Without any of them actually being "phones", but rather merely having "telephony" as a feature.

    I think people coming to win10m now, will find a great deal more apps in a years time. Not that most people use more than six or so core apps.
    05-03-2017 07:11 PM
  20. _incanter_'s Avatar
    That's kinda a weird sentence. Not sure where to start with that one! Ignoring the rest, as I understand it, signal is not the only encrypted messaging platform.

    Win10m supports my wearable device. Never going to use signal. Never going to use OpenVPN (or any vpn, no need to use public wifi when you have network access and wifi at home/office/friends). My card has paywave, and I'd rather have a smartring with paywave than a phone if I was going to not use my card (ring is more convenient/easier to carry than a phone. If your using your phone, you may as well be using a card. No real difference). I'm sure amex could do text alerts (my bank does), but I don't use that card anyway.

    Anyway, I'm sure we will get more UWA over time, not less. WoA is coming, windows s is nearly out. Spotify and mega are coming to the platform.

    There's the misperception UWP is a phone platform. It's not. It's just an early platform that MS is still building up.

    Perhaps you might get that perspective from win 8/8.1 as a phone user, especially as some people have jumped ship on their 8.1 apps (probably like others misperceiving it as a phone platform). But that's not how this platform is being expanded, not via phones, but rather via notebooks and tablets primarily, and also to a lesser degree, console and pc. Via the unified platform.

    And that's why we are getting more apps coming to the platform. When WoA comes out and delivers LTE/GPS/Calling standard to tablets and notebooks running windows, the demand for apps centered around those features will obviously go up. Without any of them actually being "phones", but rather merely having "telephony" as a feature.

    I think people coming to win10m now, will find a great deal more apps in a years time. Not that most people use more than six or so core apps.
    Thank you. Your second paragraph is what, IMHO, the discussion about switching from Android to Win10Mo should look like. You evaluate what you do with your phone *today*, you check whether parity could be achieved *today*, you decide.

    There is no "app gap", there is a gap between what you want to do with your phone and what the phone is capable of.

    As to having more UWA applications in the future, I am not that optimistic - if I have learned something in my 35 years of software development, it is that writing the code is the fairly small part of the effort. After that comes QA, packaging, deployment, maintenance and support. Even leaving all of that alone, one would hope that Win10Mo version of the UWA in question does not have the same user interface its desktop counterpart does. All of that means additional cost. But, hopefully, I am just old and pessimistic and you are right.

    As far as my Windows Mobile experience, apart from short exposure to 6.5 CE, it has all been Windows 10. I have updated my 635 from Denim to Windows 10 Insider preview as soon as it charged after unpacking and never looked back. It got replaced by 640 and, later 650. I am really happy to see how far the platform has progressed in those years, but I still cannot make it my daily driver, because, unlike you, I am using fair amount of services, Win10Mo ecosystem is not able to provide.

    And last (and certainly the least) - I do know that Signal is not the only encrypted service. Feel free to replace it with Hangouts, Allo, iMessage, replacing "encrypted" with "unreliable/limited/shooting lasers from its rear end", the point would remain the same - nobody is going to switch messaging platform just because *you* decided to get a new phone. Hence, this is just another checkpoint to evaluate.
    05-03-2017 08:35 PM
  21. TheBluesOne's Avatar
    Hi, I would suggest you to buy a used Lumia and see for yourself. You'll not be disappointed :) and one more thing you are right "FB is disease that needs to be cured!" ;P
    05-04-2017 07:54 AM
  22. Drael646464's Avatar
    Thank you. Your second paragraph is what, IMHO, the discussion about switching from Android to Win10Mo should look like. You evaluate what you do with your phone *today*, you check whether parity could be achieved *today*, you decide.

    There is no "app gap", there is a gap between what you want to do with your phone and what the phone is capable of.
    Well there is no phone in existence that operates like I'd like it too. In fact I am generally dissatisfied with the squinting, ape arming and software quality, even the whole "have to remove from pocket to get something done" or "fragile glass brick". Typing is quick but energy inefficient and inaccurate. Seems like a fill in technology, a bridge to something much better.

    But for now, it has its uses.

    As far as my Windows Mobile experience, apart from short exposure to 6.5 CE, it has all been Windows 10. I have updated my 635 from Denim to Windows 10 Insider preview as soon as it charged after unpacking and never looked back. It got replaced by 640 and, later 650. I am really happy to see how far the platform has progressed in those years, but I still cannot make it my daily driver, because, unlike you, I am using fair amount of services, Win10Mo ecosystem is not able to provide.
    Whilst studies show most people use around six core apps only, there are many useful niche applications, that serve functional purposes for people doing particular things. Travellers for example, use more apps.

    And last (and certainly the least) - I do know that Signal is not the only encrypted service. Feel free to replace it with Hangouts, Allo, iMessage, replacing "encrypted" with "unreliable/limited/shooting lasers from its rear end", the point would remain the same - nobody is going to switch messaging platform just because *you* decided to get a new phone. Hence, this is just another checkpoint to evaluate.
    I expect people to use the common interfaces in communication, like WhatsApp as opposed to snapchat, or messenger as opposed to viber. And I expect people to be able to meet in the middle if they want to talk with someone - whether that's using text messages, phone calls, skypes, meeting in person or whatever works for both of us. Someone unprepared to make any tiny accommodation for others, whether in business or in personal life, is probably not worth communicating with IMO.

    Me for example, while WhatsApp is popular enough, I don't have friends that use it. Skype is far more popular with the people I know, particularly video calls for their intimacy over text (for which the people I know generally use emails or texts). But occasionally I'll meet someone who wants to use it, for whatever reason, even though to me, its pretty much the same as messenger which more people use, and I am happy to install it for those people, just to talk to them.

    Different for a team sharing platform, like MS teams or slack, but for individual chatting with people, or even group organising, it seems like "meet in the middle" would be the default thing to do socially.

    If I came across someone who insisted that I use their means of messaging, and refused any compromise, I'd find that person pretty odd, and definitely a waste of time.

    So far as encryption goes. I'm not dealing drugs, or enganging in terrorism, and the CIA is spying on pretty much all internet activity (Hi CIA! allah Akbar lol!), so personally I don't see any function to encrypted messenging.

    For business, something like BBM is probably a more experienced security outfit, but for business secrecy at the highest level of profits and competition, I might understand encryption.

    If I was a drug dealer, lol, WhatsApp apparently was unable to be cracked by the CIA without installing spyware via a Trojan (ie they couldn't crack the encryption itself). If the CIA can't get to it, it's probably pretty good, a fair bit better than 'shooting lasers' (and a Trojan spyware would get to signal just the same way, and it did, according to the WikiLeaks documents).

    But honestly if business security was a big deal to me, I'd probably use a blackdroid phone. Most rated security in android devices, as I understand it, period.

    For "liberals" or whatever you mentioned in the first place, I'm not sure I understand the function. Your GPS is tracked, your browsing sessions, your purchases tracked, the google ecosystem tracks you, the CIA watches everything you type. In fact google services and devices are probably the least private course you can take, in terms of hiding from "big brother", given the whole platform is designed for pitching advertising and tracking user metrics - and it probably does so on many levels of which people are publically unaware.
    If you want to avoid big brother, I'd afraid the only viable way would be to make a secondary internet via the darkweb or something, and use end to end encryption and anonymous everything without ever using any login based services. I am not sure that level of paramilitary dedication to privacy exists as a consumer platform afaik! Having private encrypted messaging seems a little like putting a twig leaf over your junk when your standing in the street fully nude. Ie, I can't see it having very much impact on security or privacy in and off itself.
    Indeed the very useage of an app like signal focused on privacy, and the sending of encrypted data probably auto flags you for some potential terrorist database.
    I'm kind of with you on the privacy creep being a concerning issue. But without actually abandoning traditional forms of media and communication entirely, or constructing an alternative from the ground up, I do see many practical solutions.
    Certainly if you were to take such a route, access to apps and services would have to go riiight on the bottom of the list, given each such thing is a means of compiling data, and involves a unique identifier beyond the one your phone, as a network object, already provides (or your vpn if you use that, which aren't impenetrable either). There's just no way to keep using all these things, and plug all the holes.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-05-2017 at 05:28 AM.
    Wbutchart1 likes this.
    05-05-2017 05:04 AM
  23. _incanter_'s Avatar
    Sigh... and now I look like a troll :( I *really* wish I used something other than Signal to illustrate my point. Let me try one last time: my point was that when you are switching platforms (as opposed to evaluating something you never had before) you are bound to lose some functionality. And, yes, "none" is the degenerate case of "some". The loss needs to be evaluated and discounted *before* the switch. Saying "App gap is/is not important to me" is not conducive to the useful discussion. I rest my case.
    05-05-2017 07:54 PM
  24. Drael646464's Avatar
    Sigh... and now I look like a troll :( I *really* wish I used something other than Signal to illustrate my point. Let me try one last time: my point was that when you are switching platforms (as opposed to evaluating something you never had before) you are bound to lose some functionality. And, yes, "none" is the degenerate case of "some". The loss needs to be evaluated and discounted *before* the switch. Saying "App gap is/is not important to me" is not conducive to the useful discussion. I rest my case.
    I agree. You will gain and lose functionality when switching OSes. OSes are not identical, their app selections are not identical. To what degree you know what you are gaining or missing will depend on familiarity with both ends.

    I especially agree that numerical comparisons and the concept of "app gap" is waaay to vague to be helpful.

    Windows 10 has less apps but there are still things it does better, or that android doesn't do well. When both android or windows HAVE apps, it doesn't mean they are good apps, for example facebook on win10m - which runs fine on a tablet, but is poorly coded for lower spec'd hardware (basically you need to tweak the registry settings to get it to run okay).

    There is as you point out, specific applications/functions, and also app quality. It's not really about number of apps, its about the sort of things you might want to do. Which you may not always know until you've had the chance to use it.

    I was just using "hand off" via the share function the other day, to flip stuff between my desktop and tablet. If one had android devices one would probably send oneself a gmail containing the file or link, and not really miss it.

    I myself find the concept of "app gap" to be extremely unhelpful too! It's really a case like with a lot of technology, if you don't try it, you don't really get to know what its about.
    TgeekB and fatclue_98 like this.
    05-05-2017 09:16 PM
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