04-07-2017 08:14 AM
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tools
  1. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Normally reserved for high end phones, DNG capture is now available to the masses with a couple of easy steps. No complicated hacks are needed (if you are running W10M) thanks to a new Registry Editor named "Interop Tools."

    It appears right now as if this trick is only valid on Lumia Devices. If anyone finds a registry path to enable DNG on a non-Lumia let us know by posting the details below.


    NOTE: Editing your registry may have dire consequences if not done properly. If you do not understand the edits, don't do them. Follow only proven guides if you are not an advanced user. You have been warned. Proceed at your own risk. I am not responsible if you break the functionality of your phone. I am NOT the developer of the tool. This is merely a discussion of enabling DNG capture and some tips on using DNG. To learn more uses for Interop Tools, visit the dedicated thread.

    ^^^ Read that Warning box again. ^^^

    Good. Let's get down to it.

    Here is a blog article on Interop Tools: Interop Tools for Windows 10 Mobile lets you edit your registry for some hacking fun | Windows Central A download link for the tool is included in the blog article. I recommend that you read the entire article before downloading the tool.

    Here is a running thread on the tool: Windows 10 Mobile : Reg Tweaks (No Interop Unlock) You will note from post #18 that member Saijin_Naib provided me with the actual registry entry that needs to be tweaked and he helped pioneer this advance. I am merely bundling up the ideas and putting the results in this forum so interested photographers may take advantage of the possibilities and have a dedicated area in which to discuss the uses.

    Update:
    Here is a link to the latest version of the tool (1.80.0.160.0 Beta). ARM Folder

    Download and unzip. You need the InteropToolsApp, the 1.8 Beta and 5 dependencies that are bundled in a sub-folder.

    After downloading and unzipping, connect your Lumia to a PC via USB. (Or transfer the file by another method if you prefer.)
    • Navigate to the root folder of the device and place the ARM folder there.
    • On the device go to Settings > Update & Security > For developers > highlight "Developer mode" by tapping on it > accept the warning and tap "Yes." (Note that you may want to come back after the tool is installed and restore your default.)
    • Close Settings and open File Explorer
    • Navigate to the root folder of the device and open the ARM folder > open the ARM Dependencies folder > tap on each file in turn and tap "install" for each when the dialog box pops up (there are 5 dependencies in total and you should install all 5)
    • Navigate back up the directory tree to the ARM folder > tap on InteropToolsApp appxbundle > accept the advice and tap "install." (Note that the tool should be signed in the advice by "gus33000" and if it is not I don't know what the heck you are doing - get out of there!!!)
    • Tap on InteropTools_Beta > accept the advice and tap "install." (Note that the tool should be signed in the advice by "gus33000" and if it is not I don't know what the heck you are doing - get out of there!!!)
    • The App should appear on your All Apps list and you may pin it to Start

    Now that you have the tool installed, edit your registry to allow DNG capture.

    • Open Interop Tools > Registry Browser > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Software > OEM > Nokia > Camera > Barc > DNGDisabled


    Your screen looks like this:

    wp_ss_20160709_0001.png

    Note that you are in DNGDisabled so the value of 1 means to turn on the disable. Tap the field and edit the value to 0 (zero). Tap "Write."

    wp_ss_20160709_0002.png

    That takes you to the main screen for the registry entry. Tap "Write" again or it won't save.

    wp_ss_20160709_0003.png

    Now open Camera > ellipses (...) > Settings > under "Image size for main camera" tap the field and select JPG + DNG.

    wp_ss_20160709_0004.png


    That's it. Told you it would be easy.


    Question: I only get the full sized JPEG, and a 11.3MB DNG file that is 800x600 in size. Looks like a preview DNG or something. Not sure what is going on here. The file size is in accordance with what you were reporting, but I'm only getting the 800x600 pixel image uncompressed.

    Answered by Saijin_Naib: Your DNG file is the proper resolution. Check it out on your desktop using another program, or check it on mobile using Rawer or another RAW editor app. For whatever reason it appears that phones that are modded to shoot DNG do not report the resolution properly in Photos. All of my 4:3 DNG report 800x600 in Photos as well.

    Devices built for Windows 10 Mobile (i.e.: Lumia 550, Lumia 650) have a different registry path:

    Thanks to Dano91 (see post #75)


    It seems that for newer MS devices, the path is different:

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > SOFTWARE > OEM > MMO > Camera > Barc > DNGDisabled


    So if you are unable to make it work using the original path, try this alternative method.
    I suspect it will be needed for all new MS devices (550/650).
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 08-29-2016 at 11:15 AM. Reason: updated info
    07-09-2016 01:33 PM
  2. RumoredNow's Avatar
    With DNG enabled I took a picture of the hand painted panel on the back of a silk kimono.


    Here's what the files look like:
    640-dng.png


    Note that this takes up a lot of storage.

    The unedited JPG is 3256 x 1836 so it is 6.0 MP and the file size is 2.08 MB
    Then we have the NAR used to "select best lighting" which comes in at 6.37 MB
    I also got a DNG with flash at 9.13 MB.
    And a DNG no flash at 9.13 MB

    This is a total of 26.71 MB for one 6.0 MP capture...

    If space is at a premium on your phone you may want to avoid enabling DNG or use it sparingly for "special shots" only.

    But using DNG does have many advantages as users of Lumia 1020 / 1520 / 830 / 950 / 950 XL will attest.

    What is DNG? It is the open standard of RAW. DNG stands for Digital NeGative and was developed by Adobe: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html RAW and DNG are lossless files. When JPG is opened and manipulated, degradation occurs and is saved. This degradation accumulates over time if the file is opened and manipulated a lot - eventually the quality of the image becomes poor. DNG avoids this degredation. The file actually contains a lot of data from the sensor and so it is a more powerful file to edit from. You can open a DNG over and over to keep "printing" from the same exact source every time.

    With DNG enabled on your phone you can install Rawer to manipulate the DNG files with basic edits and save as JPG. Rawer is convenient, but has its drawbacks. Edits are pretty basic, but due to the amount of data in the DNG you can actually make quite a difference over the stock JPG image. Unfortunately, Rawer also tends to not save in the native MP size and yields a smaller (albeit high quality) JPG output.

    I've taken to editing DNG on my laptop. I use a one-two approach of converting from DNG to JPG via the Fotor App and then doing advanced edits in the Polarr Pro App. (Note: Fotor is also available on phone as a standalone although I have not used it there.) Others use different approaches such as GIMP or Photoshop. I'm hoping the merits of each get discussed in this thread to help us all out. For now I like Fotor as it gives me a high data content JPG after conversion from DNG and Polarr for the great UI and intuitive use.


    So here is the unedited, 3256 x 1856, 6.0 MP JPG taken with my Lumia 640 > Camera > forced HDR > auto Flash:

    wp_20160709_10_44_35_rich.jpg


    Not half bad, but not as nice as it could be either.

    Remember, the JPG capture weighs in at 2.08 MB. I chose the DNG with flash file (9.13 MB) and ran it through Fotor to convert it to JPG. That came out as 3256 x 1832, 6.0 MP JPG with a file size of 5.02 MB. Way more data in there than the stock capture at 2.08 MB.

    flash-dng.jpg


    Looks better already.

    But wait, there's moar!!!

    I took the output from Fotor and ran it through Polarr Pro:
    • Denoise Color +100
    • Denoise Luminance +69
    • Exposure -10
    • Color +100
    • Highlights +30
    • Clarity -40
    • Sharpen +10
    • Dehaze +10
    • Temperature reduced from 6770k to 6300k
    • Blue Saturation +20
    • Orange Saturation +20

    The result is a 3256 x 1832, 6.0 MP JPEG with a file size of only 1.07 MB. It would appear only the image is represented and all extraneous data removed. The file size makes it great for sharing without reduction. IMHO this final edit is much improved over the native JPG capture.

    flash-dng.jpeg
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 07-09-2016 at 04:40 PM.
    07-09-2016 02:29 PM
  3. Werentuckl's Avatar
    While this is great for the folks already on Nokia Lumias and I can attest to that, its kind of a dud for the poor bums on second class devices from other OEMS like Samsung et al in the MS ecosystem. :(

    -- W
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-09-2016 10:17 PM
  4. RumoredNow's Avatar
    While this is great for the folks already on Nokia Lumias and I can attest to that, its kind of a dud for the poor bums on second class devices from other OEMS like Samsung et al in the MS ecosystem. :(

    -- W
    Are you confirming it does not work on non-Lumia devices? Seems like it should as with W10M they all have the same Camera App... If it doesn't work for all I'll edit the title and OP.
    07-09-2016 10:26 PM
  5. BustyBloke's Avatar
    I have one of my 1020's running WM10 Threshold. Raw is only supported on the old Lumia Camera app, but not the new MS Camera app for WM10.

    I wonder if there will be any benefit to using this to get DNG capture working on the MS Camera app? Would be awesome if we can hack Pureview oversampled JPEGs into the MS Camera app as well. Right now it only captures 38MP JPEGs.

    Anyways, can't wait to try this out tonight! Thanks!
    RumoredNow and Chintan Gohel like this.
    07-09-2016 11:02 PM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Anyways, can't wait to try this out tonight! Thanks!
    Let us know how it works.

    Curious if you will get an oversampled smaller JPG + high res DNG.

    Got my fingers crossed...
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    07-09-2016 11:14 PM
  7. Werentuckl's Avatar
    Yes, unfortunately, I am confirming this. :(

    If you look closely at the registry pathway, it says OEM, and then Nokia, wherein the camera registry values lie for these changes. The default MS Camera app that ships stock with most other WP/WM devices lives elsewhere, and lacks such options/choices altogether entirely. Sigh. Just our luck. :'(

    But it does work swimmingly on the Nokia/Lumia branded devices beautifully though. So that works for us. :)

    -- W
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-09-2016 11:57 PM
  8. RumoredNow's Avatar
    The default MS Camera app that ships stock with most other WP/WM devices lives elsewhere, and lacks such options/choices altogether entirely.
    Thanks for that. I'll update the thread.

    If you poke around and find the right reg entry, let us know. I don't have a non-Lumia right now, but am expecting one this upcoming week and can poke in there when I have it all set up.
    07-10-2016 12:02 AM
  9. BustyBloke's Avatar
    Let us know how it works.

    Curious if you will get an oversampled smaller JPG + high res DNG.

    Got my fingers crossed...
    Just tried it.

    The settings are different in the 1020 registry, unfortunately. There is no "BARC" sub-directory. Instead, there is "RFC" and "FFC", so I dug around in there but there was no obvious option for DNGDisabled. Can't figure it out .
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    07-10-2016 08:16 AM
  10. Werentuckl's Avatar
    Damn Busty. Just everyone's luck man. :'(

    And RumoredNow, WHAT PHONE DO YOU HAVE INCOMING MAAANNNN!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

    So excited right now for you bruh! :D ^_^

    -- W
    Chintan Gohel and RumoredNow like this.
    07-10-2016 01:58 PM
  11. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    What about the 950? It doesn't have DNG option, does it?
    07-10-2016 02:22 PM
  12. mtf1380's Avatar
    What about the 950? It doesn't have DNG option, does it?
    950XL, has DNG option in Camera > Settings > Image size for main camera
    RumoredNow and Chintan Gohel like this.
    07-10-2016 02:39 PM
  13. RumoredNow's Avatar
    What about the 950? It doesn't have DNG option, does it?
    Native DNG support in the 950/XL already...
    Saijin_Naib likes this.
    07-10-2016 02:45 PM
  14. RumoredNow's Avatar
    And RumoredNow, WHAT PHONE DO YOU HAVE INCOMING MAAANNNN!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
    It's not exactly like I have a Non-Disclosure Agreement... But I'm waiting on a currently available device and don't want to spoil the upcoming test/review thread I have planned.
    07-10-2016 02:48 PM
  15. mtf1380's Avatar
    It's not exactly like I have a Non-Disclosure Agreement... But I'm waiting on a currently available device and don't want to spoil the upcoming test/review thread I have planned.
    My Money is on a: HP Elite x3 {|";^)
    07-10-2016 02:57 PM
  16. pankaj981's Avatar
    Did it add any additional overhead time between shot to shot? I know the Rich Capture modes are pretty processor heavy and rely a lot on the speed of the storage it's being saved to (built-in is always faster than an external microSD).
    07-10-2016 02:59 PM
  17. RumoredNow's Avatar
    My Money is on a: HP Elite x3 {|";^)
    LOL No.

    Currently Available and Budget.
    Saijin_Naib likes this.
    07-10-2016 03:02 PM
  18. mtf1380's Avatar
    LOL No.

    Currently Available and Budget.
    Never was lucky at gambling, :( hehe
    07-10-2016 03:10 PM
  19. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Did it add any additional overhead time between shot to shot? I know the Rich Capture modes are pretty processor heavy and rely a lot on the speed of the storage it's being saved to (built-in is always faster than an external microSD).
    Outstanding Question and one I'd not thought to look at.

    So I keep my Pics going to Internal Storage anyway since W10M started.

    I just now went out into full sunlight to test this.

    Using Internal storage on a Lumia 640, I made sure that DNG was on, Living Images was on and HDR was on... Locked up on the second pic with "Saving" screen and took about 20 seconds to process.

    Internal storage > Living Images off (my default anyway) > DNG on > HDR on. Took 9 pics before I got the "Saving" screen.

    Internal storage > Living Images off > HDR off > DNG on. Took 10 pics before I got the "Saving" screen.

    The last two "Saving" screens resolved quicker. No dropped shots.

    No crashes.
    pankaj981 likes this.
    07-10-2016 03:16 PM
  20. Daniel Gilbert M's Avatar
    I've been using DNG on 640 XL ever since this Save lossless raw image format (DNG) on 640XL thread by @Derausgewanderte got posted.
    For those with no BARC and DNGDISABLED entry, read the thread on how to enable it.

    When manually editing your DNG, the final JPG you get is far better than the post processing done by the windows camera app.
    I use DNG only for "special" shots even though I've got SD card.
    According to the windows camera store page, devices 640, 640XL, 830, Lumia Icon, 930, 1520, 950 and 950XL have support for DNG. But for some phones, it is not enabled.
    It would be useful for enthusiasts if Microsoft enables this in future.
    Last edited by Daniel Gilbert M; 07-11-2016 at 05:29 AM.
    07-10-2016 06:56 PM
  21. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I've been using DNG on 640 XL ever since this Save lossless raw image format (DNG) on 640XL thread by @Derausgewanderte got posted.
    For those with no BARC and DNGDISABLED entry, read the thread on how to enable it.

    When manually editing your DNG, the final JPG you get is far better than the post processing done by the windows camera app.
    I use DNG only for "special" shots even though I've got SD card.
    According to the windows camera store page, devices 640, 640XL, 830, Lumia Icon, 930, 1520, 950 and 950XL have support for DNG. But it is not enabled.
    It would be useful for enthusiasts if Microsoft enables this in future.
    Awesome... Thanks for that link.

    As I suspected:
    Edit: A member contacted me that his phone did not show a Barc entry at all. If the hardware supports it you will have to add the Barc key and three subkeys with the registry editor.
    Besides DNGDisabled you also have to add BarcVersion with string value 0.81, and IsEnabled with a DWORD of 1.
    Proper editing of the missing pieces into the Registry should work.

    I've been trying to find a volunteer to attempt just that.

    This is experimental and voluntary. It should work. Proceed at your own risk.

    If you arrive at "Interop Tools > Registry Browser > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Software > OEM > Nokia > Camera"

    And you have no "Barc" you should use "Add key" to create it.

    Inside "Barc" use "Add key" to create "BarcVersion" "DNGDisabled" and "IsEnabled" keys.

    "BarkVersion" needs to be set to these values:
    wp_ss_20160710_0001.png


    "DNGDisabled" needs to be set to these values:
    wp_ss_20160710_0002.png


    "IsEnabled" needs to be set to these values:
    wp_ss_20160710_0003.png
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 08-25-2016 at 09:50 PM. Reason: typo monkey
    07-10-2016 07:32 PM
  22. Derausgewanderte's Avatar
    The ability to do this has been around for some time. I posted this hack back in December but didn't get a lot of feedback then. I actually contacted Windows Central because I thought it deserved more attention. Finally somebody brings it to the forefront.
    07-10-2016 08:10 PM
  23. anon(5841099)'s Avatar
    Right, this is kind of announced as something that will save your pictures from horrible post processing or something. If I may be a Debbie Downer so to say, not withstanding the effort you put into creating the thread and writing everything down. Awesome job on that.

    The example you gave of the painting on the back of a kimono... There are a lot of assumptions involved on your part there. Yes, a DNG can contain a lot more info than the JPG version, but you have to figure out how to make the most of that information. You took the DNG, ran it through an app that has less than optimal RAW processing, then ran it through another app claiming it is now smaller and all unnecessary info is gone.

    The thing is, the picture ended up being really soft and losing a lot, and I mean a lot, of detail. Really aggressive use of noise removal can kill any kind of detail in a picture. Branches of trees become smudges for example. Also, without knowing what kind of compression setting each app uses you have no way of judging the quality to file size ratio. Fotor could for example compress RAW to JPG with a quality setting of 100, while the in phone post processing creates a JPG with a quality setting of 85. Most people won't see any difference in the picture in 95% of the cases but file size will be quite different. In fact, applying all the same edits to the JPG from the phone and then saving full size at quality 90 gives you a 1,22MB picture. So you added a lot of extra work for almost no difference. The picture just looks a lot softer and with a lot less detail.

    Anyway, this may sound like I'm trying to shoot all this DNG stuff down, but I'm just trying to point out that it is not a magic bullet. Using DNG requires some know-how to get the best out of your pictures. Use with caution, do some research. Or you will be disappointed.

    P.S.: Post processing is subjective as well of course, so please don't take it as criticism of your picture. If you are happy with the result that's what matters, I just took your example because it shows that getting rid of detail in an image will reduce file size.
    07-10-2016 09:01 PM
  24. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Finally somebody brings it to the forefront.
    Yeah, I'm just loud and pushy ()... Bits of it have been out there some time, just as you say. I missed your part, Derausgewanderte, until it was pointed out to me.

    IMHO, it's good to have the flexibility.


    Right, this is kind of announced as something that will save your pictures from horrible post processing or something...

    ...creating the thread and writing everything down. Awesome job on that.

    Yes, a DNG can contain a lot more info than the JPG version, but you have to figure out how to make the most of that information....

    The thing is, the picture ended up being really soft and losing a lot, and I mean a lot, of detail...

    Post processing is subjective as well of course, so please don't take it as criticism of your picture....
    Thanks for the input and the kind words about getting the thread going. And no sense of criticism was received, rather one of critique. It sounds as if you understand the difference as well as I do.

    Definitely, I am still learning and one of the reasons I set up the thread was to help myself learn as well as hopefully helping others...

    I don't look at DNG as a panacea, but as another tool and I'm happy to have it on my 640 where it may actually do more good than on my 1520 for many day to day shots. Not that I would ever sit and edit every shot. I did, however want to get an example in the thread so I used a handy subject and put something together in fairly short order. About the softening, most of that was intentional, and some of it due to shooting in low light with the result of a LOT of grain, even in the flash part of the bracket. Let's be honest, the lens on a 640 does not compare to Zeiss, OIS, PureView enhanced models. I liked the softening as I found it representative of the fabric medium and the pastoral theme of the painted silk. Other aesthetics might certainly be applied and there might be as many tastes as there are editors.

    Of the 3 samples, the straight DNG to JPG output (at 100% as you guessed) from Fotor most closely represents what my eyes see of the subject. The JPG capture of the subject that I would have had from Camera without DNG is least favorable to me. Which, to me, is much of the point in having the DNG ability in your toolkit. And then I processed in Polarr to show some of the artistic license that might be applied to a file that retains more of the sensor data than the stock Camera JPG will offer...


    If anyone is interested the DNG file I worked with can be had here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkvY2_b6DBA3ieNUrNHGsKEfD_qG4w
    07-10-2016 10:40 PM
  25. Axeelant's Avatar
    Ok just a few question since i see some picture experts in here, which i am not :)
    On the photo it shows a DNG option set for 6MP shot. Is this on a lower spec camera phone, would my L930 have a higher MP rating available since it gives me a 16MP RAW file?

    Also, can someone explain me a difference between RAW and DNG? Which is better for Adobe Lightroom?
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-11-2016 08:13 AM
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