Why should a business deploy the Elite X3?

[runamuck83]

I have been struggling to answer this question, and if you are honest with yourself - you'll agree that there's minimal reason for any business to deploy the Elite X3 in their environment. I feel like this may be the final experiment that Microsoft is watching to determine whether they proceed with their own ambitions of a Surface Phone. If the HP Elite X3 fails to attract any attention, I think this will be the end of the line....

A few reasons why:

1. Continuum - Sure, it's a great concept, but that's all. There are so few apps that are designed for continuum that it's not really a selling point. Additionally, even in Continuum mode you can only run a single app at a time. No office-worker wants to be confined to a single app at a time. Additionally, the interface is different. (In the POC we ran, see below, people complained to me that the "Desktop" in continuum worked differently than the Windows 10 desktop. No shortcuts on the desktop, can't pin to task bar, etc.)
2. HP Workspace - As much attention as this has gotten, it's not something completely new. Most IT shops are fully aware of virtualized apps/desktops for years now and many have them deployed in the form of App-V, VMWare View, Citrix, or even basic Remote Desktop. Additionally, Android & iOS have native apps all supporting these platforms and people in our business alone use their iPhones/iPads to run virtualized x86 Windows apps! Considering new hardware coming out such as the Superbook (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andromium/the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f) that allow you to turn an Android into a laptop - why wouldn't someone just consider using this over Windows Phone?
3. Users don't want 1 device - I know from experience. We actually ran a POC pilot on 5 users with the Lumia 950. We set them up with the Dock, the Lumia 950, etc. They used RemoteApp to access our line of business x86 apps when at their desks and then used their phone apps for Mail, etc. The feedback after the 3 month POC from almost all of them was that they did not like having just the phone. They wanted these devices to be separate and they especially were frustrated with the fact that they didn't have a laptop experience. (Something the mobile extender may address for the X3?) Additionally, they all bemoaned about the fact that their device had no apps that they were used to with the iPhones we currently deploy.
4. Manageability - Deploying Windows 10 Mobile into a business environment literally has no benefits. For example, the device doesn't let you join a domain or enforce standard Windows group policies. No, you have to use Mobile Device Management (MDM) such as Microsoft Intune - the same exact thing you'd have to use on an Android / iPhone (which we use). The file explorer cannot access network shares that 99% of all companies in the world running Windows server rely on. Seems like a basic miss there.
   I figured that Microsoft would make an attempt to make Windows 10 Mobile as close to a PC as possible so IT Administrators would say "So, you mean if I get this over an Android I can just use regular domain polices, etc that I have been using for years and years that are so familiar to me without additional cost and overhead of a Mobile Device Management platform??? Wow!" Well, they didn't. That's dumb.

So, I'm not sold on this and I am certain most IT shops won't be either... I didn't want to feel this way but I can't come to any other conclusion.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Your research base had 5 users only in the same company if I'm not mistaken - for statistics purposes, that is a very small sample group.

The restriction now is one app, but that can change, can't it?
Almost no apps? The main apps are continuum enabled such as edge, office apps, mail, calendar etc. Maybe whatsapp isn't but that is a personal app, not business oriented.

Users may or may not want one device but for businesses it eliminates the need to have multiple devices such as a desktop pc, laptop and phone

 

[ttsoldier]

What about mobile workers. Companies that have several offices. Instead of buying a laptop for each user they just set up the docks with monitor at each location and when the user reaches, they dock, do what they have to do and bounce.

Could be something coffee shops could implement as well. Public docking stations

 

[kaktus1389]

You seem to forget that HP most likely had a bit larger user base on which they decided which OS will their phone run. I believe that they were very well aware of what Windows 10 Mobile ecosystem is like and what features make Windows 10 Mobile dominate over other platforms.

Perhaps they chose it because of the need of mobility that employees have and they found out in their own researches that it's hard for them to carry laptops around with them, because they can be heavy, simply too big or bother them in any other way. Now they've manufactured a phone that can (almost) replace your laptop with Continuum, and it suits in your pocket - it's not heavy but you get (almost) the same experience as you would get on a PC when you use Continuum. Yes, it's true that not apps are available for Continuum, but as Chintan already stated above, I believe that in their research HP got information on which apps exactly their customers need and if those would not be available, well then they probably would not pick Windows 10 Mobile over Android/iOS.

Forgot to mention that they may have picked Windows 10 Mobile for it's security too.

 

[ttsoldier]

You seem to forget that HP most likely had a bit larger user base on which they decided which OS will their phone run. I believe that they were very well aware of what Windows 10 Mobile ecosystem is like and what features make Windows 10 Mobile dominate over other platforms.

Perhaps they chose it because of the need of mobility that employees have and they found out in their own researches that it's hard for them to carry laptops around with them, because they can be heavy, simply too big or bother them in any other way. Now they've manufactured a phone that can (almost) replace your laptop with Continuum, and it suits in your pocket - it's not heavy but you get (almost) the same experience as you would get on a PC when you use Continuum. Yes, it's true that not apps are available for Continuum, but as Chintan already stated above, I believe that in their research HP got information on which apps exactly their customers need and if those would not be available, well then they probably would not pick Windows 10 Mobile over Android/iOS.

Forgot to mention that they may have picked Windows 10 Mobile for it's security too.

Great point. I'm sure HP would have done extensive research and several cases would have had to be made to upper management for approval for this project while being aware of windows 10 current position.

They did not wake up one morning and say : "lets build a windows phone tomorrow "

 

[tgp]

Great point. I'm sure HP would have done extensive research and several cases would have had to be made to upper management for approval for this project while being aware of windows 10 current position.

They did not wake up one morning and say : "lets build a windows phone tomorrow "

Maybe HP was hired by Microsoft, like the Nokia deal of old.

 

[Daniel Ponte]

@Runamuck83, great points.

I'm considering the X3 as a business user. (I don't have interest in Facesnapchatigram or other like apps.)

Using virtualization in Continuum would be a decent sell. However, I'm wondering about the ability to run Win32 apps connected to a SQL server behind a firewall.

I'll have to try out my 950XL in Continuum running remotely to a Win32 PC. Should be interesting.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Maybe HP was hired by Microsoft, like the Nokia deal of old.

HP is too big, hiring or buying them off won't work. In 2015 it was valued at more than 150 Billion USD with over 300000 employees.

 

[anon(8032092)]

Runamuck, I think you make some very valid points. And as far as i know you are the only one on these forums that have actually tried replacing pcs with windows phones for multiple people at work. Ideally the phone could be brought into the domain so it could be managed like other windows pc's but it is not to be. I'm rooting for HP and MSFT, but it really sounds like they have some work to do. Thankfully Windows 10 is never "done" but we need to hope that they are working on the right things with their limited resources.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Remember that the first surface devices didn't do so well but now they are some of the most popular devices. So even if in it's current version continuum doesn't work, the lessons learned will help improve the next generation

 

[tgp]

Remember that the first surface devices didn't do so well but now they are some of the most popular devices.

This statement, while technically true, is misleading. The Surface RT devices did not do well, never did well, and were eventually dropped. The Surface Pro line is doing well. But I don't think it had the same issues out of the gate that the RT line did.

Surface RT was totally dependent on Store apps, which were almost nonexistent. It did its job very well as long as the job you had for it fit its very narrow scope.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

This statement, while technically true, is misleading. The Surface RT devices did not do well, never did well, and were eventually dropped. The Surface Pro line is doing well. But I don't think it had the same issues out of the gate that the RT line did.

Surface RT was totally dependent on Store apps, which were almost nonexistent. It did its job very well as long as the job you had for it fit its very narrow scope.

so the rt concept was bad but they did improve on it a lot, didn't they? Full windows instead of a watered down version. The learning points were also about the hardware, right?

 

[kaktus1389]

The fact is that Continuum can offer something that other platforms apparently can't. While it's true that it needs improvements and that it needs to evolve, it still is the best solution so far for business users who want/are able to to use one device which can handle their tasks.

 

[tgp]

so the rt concept was bad but they did improve on it a lot, didn't they? Full windows instead of a watered down version. The learning points were also about the hardware, right?

Following the same logic, HP will discover that the Elite X3 hardware is good, but they need a real OS instead of a watered down version!

Microsoft did NOT improve on the RT software, at least not enough to make it viable. They sold two versions of the Surface line side-but-side, RT and Pro. Pro worked; RT didn't. It was dropped. The only thing Microsoft learned from it was that consumers didn't want an app-dependent OS with no apps.

Also, I'm a little less optimistic than most here about the X3's good hardware being a big selling point. I'm not saying it's not important, not at all. But there are plenty of other OEMs producing great hardware. The Elite X3 is not going to stand out from the crowd in that respect. Even the 950/XL have top notch hardware.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Following the same logic, HP will discover that the Elite X3 hardware is good, but they need a real OS instead of a watered down version! ��

Microsoft did NOT improve on the RT software, at least not enough to make it viable. They sold two versions of the Surface line side-but-side, RT and Pro. Pro worked; RT didn't. It was dropped. The only thing Microsoft learned from it was that consumers didn't want an app-dependent OS with no apps.

Also, I'm a little less optimistic than most here about the X3's good hardware being a big selling point. I'm not saying it's not important, not at all. But there are plenty of other OEMs producing great hardware. The Elite X3 is not going to stand out from the crowd in that respect. Even the 950/XL have top notch hardware.

I agree with you a lot on this.

The hardware these days is no longer the only selling point unfortunately. The OS matters as much or even more.
What's unique about windows OS for mobile? Continuum, that's the single biggest unique feature.
What sets apart iOS and Android? What unique feature does one have that the other doesn't? Both have apps, both have nearly the same hardware features, both are popular but what sets them apart? Rounded squares vs circles? Closed vs open system? Stability vs tinkering ability?

We can continue saying continuum is going to fail or insiders can help improve it so that it actually won't fail

 

[tgp]

The hardware these days is no longer the only selling point unfortunately. The OS matters as much or even more.

Exactly. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to say that hardware is not important. It is very important. But the OEMs are pretty much all at equal places. They are at the cutting edge of current technology, and there's not anywhere for them to go alone hardware-wise at the moment. For the most part, they tend to move forward together.

As you pointed out, the difference is the OS.

What's unique about windows OS for mobile? Continuum, that's the single biggest unique feature.

Yes it is. We'll have to see if Continuum will trump WM's weak points.

What sets apart iOS and Android? What unique feature does one have that the other doesn't? Both have apps, both have nearly the same hardware features, both are popular but what sets them apart? Rounded squares vs circles? Closed vs open system? Stability vs tinkering ability?

There actually isn't a lot setting iOS and Android apart from each other. If you get an Android at a similar price point as the iPhone, you will get a similar experience. Maybe a different ecosystem, but overall roughly the same. It's kind of like when you buy a vehicle. You have a plethora of brands to choose from, but if you buy at a similar price, you will get a similar experience.

 

[theefman]

The fact is that Continuum can offer something that other platforms apparently can't. While it's true that it needs improvements and that it needs to evolve, it still is the best solution so far for business users who want/are able to to use one device which can handle their tasks.

Is it really the case, that it offers what other mobile platforms cant and its the best solution for a business? Leaving out ios cos its so closed I would bet that an android device can connect to an external display and use a keyboard and mouse so the advantage here would be the optimized layout of a continuum app but ultimately they are both running mobile apps.

For business, the case for continuum seems even weaker. If its running the same mobile apps as other platforms, there is no real advantage for a W10 device and since it cant run x86 programs unless using some remote access capability (which is also available to other platforms) again there is no advantage. A business is better of getting a cheaper phone and laptop combo for their mobile users.

The case for having just one device, that may appeal to some but the pros are negated by the cons of all the hoops you have to jump through to get your one device to transform into all the other devices its trying to replace.

So the only thing continuum seems to really offer is convenience (for those who want it), support for mobile apps optimized for large screens and maybe better keyboard/mouse support at the cost of more cumbersome setup and added expense. Cant say I see the value of this feature when you look at it objectively.

 

[kaktus1389]

Is it really the case, that it offers what other mobile platforms cant and its the best solution for a business? Leaving out ios cos its so closed I would bet that an android device can connect to an external display and use a keyboard and mouse so the advantage here would be the optimized layout of a continuum app but ultimately they are both running mobile apps.

For business, the case for continuum seems even weaker. If its running the same mobile apps as other platforms, there is no real advantage for a W10 device and since it cant run x86 programs unless using some remote access capability (which is also available to other platforms) again there is no advantage. A business is better of getting a cheaper phone and laptop combo for their mobile users.

The case for having just one device, that may appeal to some but the pros are negated by the cons of all the hoops you have to jump through to get your one device to transform into all the other devices its trying to replace.

So the only thing continuum seems to really offer is convenience (for those who want it), support for mobile apps optimized for large screens and maybe better keyboard/mouse support at the cost of more cumbersome setup and added expense. Cant say I see the value of this feature when you look at it objectively.

So you want to say that HP looked at it subjectively when choosing Windows 10 Mobile as the platform and didn't care about profit?

 

[tgp]

What I find interesting is to think about why HP chose to manufacture a mobile phone running an OS that so far has not gone anywhere in the real world, and has even been dropping like a rock the last couple years. So far, the Elite X3's only differentiating feature is HP Workspace. Will that do it? Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

I guess I do not see how HP thought they could go somewhere with this. I can understand that sometime in the future Continuum and HP Workspace could be compelling for businesses, but I think it's a bit premature for HP to jump into it at the scale they are and dedicate all those resources to it. At the rate Microsoft and developers supporting the ecosystem have been moving with WM, HP is likely going to have a very rough road for awhile, with progress coming at a snail's pace.

I suspect that Microsoft is behind the entire HP Elite X3 idea. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft made HP an offer they couldn't refuse, and that no matter how it spins out, HP will do well financially.

 

[theefman]

So you want to say that HP looked at it subjectively when choosing Windows 10 Mobile as the platform and didn't care about profit?

No idea if they care about profit or not, just saying the continued pitch of continuum as some unique, unequalled feature is overblown as it can be replicated quite easily and ultimately offers minimal real world value beyond convenience.