The X3, close but no cigar

[Allen Rhodes]

Finally got to go hands on with this at the Austin MS store. The phone really is great, but for the price..... no. That camera is sub par for a phone half the price. How much more would it have cost to get the Lumia Zeiss in it if HP and MS were working so "close together " as they claim. Look, I get it that it's driven for business, but cmon. Businesses need nice pics as well as fanboys. Outside of the battery, I didn't see a real difference in performance from my 950xl. Granted I wasn't pushing the phone either. My last gripe is the dual sim.... HELLO MICROSOFT AND OTHER 3rd PARTY PARTNERS!! AT&T is killing the 2g network as of Jan 1 2017. That means your dual sim phone is useless to those with more than one line. MS doesn't support T-Mobile officially, so that's not the excuse to those about to reply and say switch to T-Mobile. This has been known since before this phone was even announced. So what the hell?! We need two 3G radios, it's almost 2017. Anyway, solid phone but no dice for me and my business.

 

[PerfectReign]

My opinion - it sucks less than anything else.

Sent from mTalk

 

[Allen Rhodes]

Outside of the battery, what advantage does the phone itself have over the 950xl that justifies nearly $1000 dollars after taxes, shipping etc? And "it feels premium" doesn't count.

 

[beman39]

Outside of the battery, what advantage does the phone itself have over the 950xl that justifies nearly $1000 dollars after taxes, shipping etc? And "it feels premium" doesn't count.

hmmm off the top of my head, double (HD) space + 1GB more ram+ faster processor and bigger screen.... listen the galaxy note 7 came with a price tag of $800+ and the X3 has better hardware and is couple hundred more... not that much of a differance if you ask me... and of course the camera's not that great but it will get better with firmware updates like it already has... daniel has already confirmed the camera is a little better since the last update

 

[Daniel Rubino]

Finally got to go hands on with this at the Austin MS store.

That's not really a fair review, c'mon. If so, then I'll stop doing my reviews and just go to the store to form an opinion too

That camera is sub par for a phone half the price. How much more would it have cost to get the Lumia Zeiss in it if HP and MS were working so "close together " as they claim. Look, I get it that it's driven for business, but cmon. Businesses need nice pics as well as fanboys.

It's not that easy to catch up to Nokia in imaging with one phone on the first shot. Who else has done that?

Anyway, two photos I took yesterday. All Auto, no HDR, no formatting. Poorly lit room and all natural light.

Outside of the battery, I didn't see a real difference in performance from my 950xl.

Quick Charge 3.0, Fingerprint reader, better display, the processor runs cooler, better haptic feedback, better accessories, front firing stereo speakers, a faster more reliable iris scanner, better buttons, higher build quality, more RAM. FTFY

My last gripe is the dual sim.... HELLO MICROSOFT AND OTHER 3rd PARTY PARTNERS!! AT&T is killing the 2g network as of Jan 1 2017. That means your dual sim phone is useless to those with more than one line. MS doesn't support T-Mobile officially, so that's not the excuse to those about to reply and say switch to T-Mobile. This has been known since before this phone was even announced. So what the hell?! We need two 3G radios, it's almost 2017. Anyway, solid phone but no dice for me and my business.

Qualcomm does not, to my knowledge make any chipset with dual 3G radios. It's not an option for manufacturers. If I'm wrong, someone please direct me to that information. Dual 3G radios would be a serious drain on the battery.

Dual SIM is about having two phone numbers for calls and SMS (work, personal), not about having two data connections which are seen as redundant and a battery drain. (Data is data, after all. Your billing restrictions are not everyone's concern).

I run my Elite x3 on T-Mobile w/ 4G LTE and get terrific coverage and performance.

?\_(ツ)_/?​

 

[Kogling]

I'm not the biggest fan of the x3 personally (although It is my current phone) and my honest opinion is that it is definitely over priced. If it was a fair bit cheaper (i.e. in line with 950 XL) I wouldn't be complaining. If HP were to give me a lap dock at the ?700 price point I would be saying this the best phone on the market, but it's not a ?700 phone.

You have to remember everyone was also raving on about how HP isn't targeting consumers and have no marketing costs to recover, so the phone was expected to be fairly priced around the 500 area, but I think somewhere along the line - probably due to high interest, they've priced it as a high end consumer phone knowing they can get away with it.

I don't see anything in this phone you can't get in a phone sold for half the price and, while the battery might not be as big, when a 3000mAh phone is far more efficient, comparing that 4000mAh battery is like comparing processor speeds or core counts - pointless.

I contemplated on returning it for a 950XL instead, especially since the replaceable battery is quite attractive sounding and could buy 20 spares and still have money left over but the known problems of the 810 and also the less attractive design really bugged me. I want a phone I know will last me for years, and using it for continuum is genuine interest too.

I'm also hoping HP and Microsoft is going to surprise us one day with 64bit windows 10 mobile build that is super efficient and this phone with more modern hardware will last me for years. Hopefully it wont turn out like the 2520, abandoned within months of release and false promises of brining the next windows version on to it.

On another note, I can't help but feel if MS would let us put windows 10 on the 2520, it would be a much better "lap dock" for continuum (and cheaper) than HP's empty screen with a display adaptor and bluetooth keybaord solution...

 

[Allen Rhodes]

Everything you said is valid. My opinion was based on not being wow'd by the device like I was after being a PITA customer hogging a demo for upwards of an hour. The specs are better, 100% fact. But, personally, I can't justify nearly a grand for a phone that isn't leaps and bounds better than what I have now. This is all my opinion. Obviously some thought went into this device. The dual sim issue is going to get bigger and bigger however. It's not a billing/$ restriction for me, it's an issue of one of my lines won't work and now I may be forced off a great network to a sub par one in my area if I want to not have to carry two phones. First world problems, right? I will link to the article when I have more time, but I read one that stated that by mid-2017 nearly 40% of the "first world" 2g networks will be offline. T-Mobile will do it eventually as well. This will be an issue with businesses if MS wants to focus on this market. Forcing a company to ditch AT&T for T-Mobile, which BLOWS here in ATX, just to use their platform dual sim, isn't going to be a selling point. T-Mobile is on record they will "try" to keep 2g online until 2020. It's almost 2017...

I've read and watched all the reviews, it's a great phone. But again, not for nearly 1000. IMO. I came from a 1020 to the 950xl, night a flipping day. Got that tingly in the britches feeling with the demo. I'm not looking for a unicorn, but there is always something that falls short with our phones. I will never say it's the OS, I'm with it til the bitter end, if that happens. I don't care about Snap or catching Pok?mon. I'm hoping this phone will be the new bar for others to hit, thus making the other phones comparable if not better. Then there will be a market to drive prices down. Right now HP is it for premium.

That's not really a fair review, c'mon. If so, then I'll stop doing my reviews and just go to the store to form an opinion too


It's not that easy to catch up to Nokia in imaging with one phone on the first shot. Who else has done that?

Anyway, two photos I took yesterday. All Auto, no HDR, no formatting. Poorly lit room and all natural light.

View attachment 131254

View attachment 131255


Quick Charge 3.0, Fingerprint reader, better display, the processor runs cooler, better haptic feedback, better accessories, front firing stereo speakers, a faster more reliable iris scanner, better buttons, higher build quality, more RAM. FTFY



Qualcomm does not, to my knowledge make any chipset with dual 3G radios. It's not an option for manufacturers. If I'm wrong, someone please direct me to that information. Dual 3G radios would be a serious drain on the battery.

Dual SIM is about having two phone numbers for calls and SMS (work, personal), not about having two data connections which are seen as redundant and a battery drain. (Data is data, after all. Your billing restrictions are not everyone's concern).

I run my Elite x3 on T-Mobile w/ 4G LTE and get terrific coverage and performance.

?\_(ツ)_/?​

 

[beman39]

you keep going on about not worth $xxx amount of dollars but every other flagship phone is priced AROUND the same price range! and they aren't even as beefed up as the x3!! why your insistant remarks of not being worth it aren't valid! and another thing, I think the x3 takes great pics from what I can see daniel posted... there is absolutely nothing wrong with those pictures!!

 

[Allen Rhodes]

And throwing exclamation points in doesnt make your point valid. Every other "flagship" phone is a general consumer phone, MS has conceded this market. Every business owner I know in this tech hub of a city, that I have discussed this device with, likes the idea, agrees its a starter and waiting 6mo or more it will cost way less, but isnt willing to switch carriers or suggest to employees that they do so with their personal lines, just for this phone. Or any dual sim. Internationally may become an issue even quicker than here in the states as some countries as a whole are killing off 2g. So what then? No work line or no personal line? Pretty tall favor to ask for a phone.

 

[beman39]

And throwing exclamation points in doesnt make your point valid. Every other "flagship" phone is a general consumer phone, MS has conceded this market.

absolutely not, but it sure drives my point across... and you mean HP, because MS hasn't...

 

[Daniel Rubino]

I'm not the biggest fan of the x3 personally (although It is my current phone) and my honest opinion is that it is definitely over priced. If it was a fair bit cheaper (i.e. in line with 950 XL) I wouldn't be complaining. If HP were to give me a lap dock at the ?700 price point I would be saying this the best phone on the market, but it's not a ?700 phone.

Keep in mind the Lumia 950 XL went on sale originally for $649. HP Elite x3 sans dock goes on sale I believe October 21 for $699. A 64GB iPhone 7 Plus is $769 for a 32GB variant ($969 for 256GB). Galaxy S7 Edge 32GB is $599.

I think people here are confusing value with cost. I think the Elite x3 is priced right for its specs and feature set. People seem to have a problem with the value due to it being Windows 10 Mobile, which is a judgement/opinion.

It's not cheap, but it's not aimed at regular consumers. Businesses presumably buy in bulk and get a discount, etc.

 

[Daniel Rubino]

But, personally, I can't justify nearly a grand for a phone that isn't leaps and bounds better than what I have now. This is all my opinion.

Definitley. That is a legit concern for many XL or 950 owners. It's a nice upgrade but likely not enough to justify the cost. It's like that every year for the iPhone and Apple fans.

 

[tgp]

hmmm off the top of my head, double (HD) space + 1GB more ram+ faster processor and bigger screen.... listen the galaxy note 7 came with a price tag of $800+ and the X3 has better hardware and is couple hundred more... not that much of a differance if you ask me... and of course the camera's not that great but it will get better with firmware updates like it already has... daniel has already confirmed the camera is a little better since the last update

you keep going on about not worth $xxx amount of dollars but every other flagship phone is priced AROUND the same price range! and they aren't even as beefed up as the x3!! why your insistant remarks of not being worth it aren't valid! and another thing, I think the x3 takes great pics from what I can see daniel posted... there is absolutely nothing wrong with those pictures!!

We've always preached that specs do not matter. Now they do?

Hardware is not the problem. If it had been, the exclusive deal with Nokia would have solved it. The only problem with hardware now is it not being available, which is an unfortunate byproduct of the WM OS not being ready to run with the big boys.

All the specs in the world are not going to solve W10M's current problem: an OS that still needs a lot of work, with a rather poor ecosystem. Get that fixed, and the hardware will come. I bet there are plenty of Android OEMs who would slap W10M on their devices if they thought it would sell. They don't care about the OS; they care about selling phones.

 

[Werentuckl]

I like how beating about the dual radios is an interesting point to note where nobody brings it up with the wealth of Samsung/Huawei/LG et al phones that people would go out on a limb to buy without questioning the merits of the purchase, but the dual sim in this device, or Microsoft's devices, suddenly become points of active contention.

Aside from that, and I think perhaps the most important note of inflection in this entire converse, DAN'S A CAT PERSON!!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

-- W

 

[beman39]

We've always preached that specs do not matter. Now they do?

don't know where read that but every post I've seen the hardware has always been compared to either some IOS device or android and vice versa.. so I don't know why you're saying that

All the specs in the world are not going to solve W10M's current problem: an OS that still needs a lot of work, with a rather poor ecosystem. Get that fixed, and the hardware will come. I bet there are plenty of Android OEMs who would slap W10M on their devices if they thought it would sell. They don't care about the OS; they care about selling phones.

that I can agree with you on SOME point, I also feel that the OS isn't fully polished/completed and how the lumia 950/XL would be a differant beast if the OS was more polished/completed, most if not all threads would sing a differant tune... But that can be said for the X3 also and WHEN the OS is more polished with these updates in the near future these phones will be blowing the other handsets out of the water! I can see it already with my 950XL and imagine MS is not finished polishing up the 10M.. exciting times ahead my friend

 

[Allen Rhodes]

Definitley. That is a legit concern for many XL or 950 owners. It's a nice upgrade but likely not enough to justify the cost. It's like that every year for the iPhone and Apple fans.

Thank you, sir. That's all I was saying, IMO. I'm hoping 2017 brings that "wow" device that is ahead of the curve. Yes, Continuum technically is, but it's still a baby. The sales numbers will be interesting to see.

Yes, I went on a rant about the dual sim. But, considering this is geared to businesses, it WILL be an issue very quickly. And the minimal upgrade over the 950xl, coupled with selling to businesses, most of whom will be the ones wanting dual sim, I don't see the appeal. The WOW.

 

[tgp]

don't know where read that but every post I've seen the hardware has always been compared to either some IOS device or android and vice versa.. so I don't know why you're saying that

I was referring to several years ago, when WP7 and even WP8 ran quite well on very low end hardware such as the Lumia 520. The common feeling was that there was a lower ROI on say the 920 or flagships on other OS's over the 520. Now we are praising the X3 on slight spec differences over other flagships.

that I can agree with you on SOME point, I also feel that the OS isn't fully polished/completed and how the lumia 950/XL would be a differant beast if the OS was more polished/completed, most if not all threads would sing a differant tune... But that can be said for the X3 also and WHEN the OS is more polished with these updates in the near future these phones will be blowing the other handsets out of the water! I can see it already with my 950XL and imagine MS is not finished polishing up the 10M.. exciting times ahead my friend

Even if the OS becomes stable and polished, we still have the weak ecosystem to deal with. Will the ecosystem come around assuming the OS matures? Maybe it will, but it is not guaranteed. And even so, a mature OS and vibrant ecosystem only put it on par with what iOS and Android provide; it will not necessarily be "blowing the other handsets out of the water!".

 

[beman39]

Thank you, sir. That's all I was saying, IMO. I'm hoping 2017 brings that "wow" device that is ahead of the curve. Yes, Continuum technically is, but it's still a baby. The sales numbers will be interesting to see.

Yes, I went on a rant about the dual sim. But, considering this is geared to businesses, it WILL be an issue very quickly. And the minimal upgrade over the 950xl, coupled with selling to businesses, most of whom will be the ones wanting dual sim, I don't see the appeal. The WOW.

gimme a break all the IOS and android peeps complain about this same thing! LOL there's no device on the market that makes you go "WOW"! I gotta buy this , shut up and take my money! LOL not until they come out with the oled bendable phones that can slide out into 10" screens or 3D holographic projection screens :wink:

 

[beman39]

I was referring to several years ago, when WP7 and even WP8 ran quite well on very low end hardware such as the Lumia 520. The common feeling was that there was a lower ROI on say the 920 or flagships on other OS's over the 520. Now we are praising the X3 on slight spec differences over other flagships. [/I]".

well that was years ago and why bring that up now with the current OS?

Even if the OS becomes stable and polished, we still have the weak ecosystem to deal with. Will the ecosystem come around assuming the OS matures? Maybe it will, but it is not guaranteed. And even so, a mature OS and vibrant ecosystem only put it on par with what iOS and Android provide; it will not necessarily be "blowing the other handsets out of the water!".

because I'm talking about hardware and OS aspects and not the "ecosystem" per say.. but I foresee that all that will catch up once the devs see that win10M is being constantly worked on and bettered and then we will see a more stronger ecosystem for wm10 and windows 10 for that matter...

 

[tgp]

because I'm talking about hardware and OS aspects and not the "ecosystem" per say.. but I foresee that all that will catch up once the devs see that win10M is being constantly worked on and bettered and then we will see a more stronger ecosystem for wm10 and windows 10 for that matter...

The way the smartphone market is now is very similar to how the desktop market has been for awhile, virtually unchanged for many years. One OS is dominating the market share (desktop: Windows, mobile: Android), another is much smaller but considered premium and very high in profits (OS X, iOS), and a third remaining in the low single digits (Linux, WM). Taking your logic here and applying it to desktop, Linux would have a stronger ecosystem by now.

I'm not saying this won't happen for WM. I'm saying that logic doesn't always apply and it doesn't have to happen. It almost appears that there isn't room for more than two strong players when it comes to operating systems. For WM to have a significant presence, one of the others may have to go down.

Or, is WM chasing the wrong things? What I mean is that WM's strong points are not considered important to the public.

Take security for example. This is arguably WM's strong point and Android's weak point. But who cares? Businesses deal with it on Android or use iOS. Consumers don't seem to care about it.

Another is having one OS across multiple form factors with similar UI and apps. So far, who cares? Facebook works fine in the browser on desktop, and it also works fine with iOS and Android's mobile apps. What appeal does a UWP Facebook app hold for consumers?

Continuum is maybe the trump card that WM is holding right now. I'm looking forward to see how this all plays out! :excited: