12-23-2012, 02:49 PM #76
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Well if I my tell you what I think!
They should sit down and talk this true.
If they find a solution for all to coexist I think there would be a better for the costumer
Apple and Microsoft are working together and that's not bad for any one is it?!
So if Google is targeting this as a strategy I think many more going to us Bing and that will give less add money for them. Well you se where I'm going with this.
So I like the idea of free software but as I live in the real world it's not always the best solution , and not for every one.
So Google think one more time don't think that your in a place where no one can touch you.
P's I can change my mail to another client it's no problem. And this move will give me a reason to do that.
Skickat frn min HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e via Tapatalk 2
- 12-23-2012, 07:59 PM #77
Openness, for 99.9% of users, means that a solution will work across platforms, without any restrictions or efforts to "firewall it out."
Google's a great example of a company that uses FOSS "standards" that it modifies and frequently changes in order to create a closed, proprietary experience.
- 12-23-2012, 08:00 PM #78
- 12-24-2012, 12:56 PM #79
I guess if that's your porn more, you'd be more concerned about local caching of that data than anything Google might be keeping on you.
- 12-24-2012, 01:03 PM #80
That's not what EAS does. If you've customized your Google Contacts phone, email or mailing address descriptions EAS doesn't sync any of that data. If you add more than 3 or 4 email addresses to a contact, EAS doesn't sync that as email addresses it syncs that as notes. If you have more than 2 mailing addresses for a contact, they're all ignored.
EAS doesn't work for everyone. Beat the drum about how secure or battery efficient or ubiquitous it is, but also realize that there are serious limitations in what it will do.
- 12-24-2012, 09:52 PM #82
- 12-25-2012, 01:55 AM #83
If they added too many email or mailing addresses, that's a problem too. I tried to add my Google Contacts to my Lumia and EAS failed to do the job.
This entire discussion is about how wonderfully open and restriction free EAS is. About how it works across platforms and how evil Google is for dropping it, even though there are serious compatibility issues between the two.
Try to marginalize the point all that you like, but I still have a Lumia with only about 30 of my 400+ contacts on it because
EAS has serious limitations.
- 12-25-2012, 03:00 PM #84
If you want Google's proprietary customization features and don't mind the lock-in that such a proprietary approach entails, an Android phone is your best bet.
(And yes, the Google "customization" of standard contact fields and "open standards" are proprietary.)
- 12-25-2012, 10:07 PM #85
If you want to get twisted in semantics, fine. Let's just go ahead and Google's customizations proprietary. Why do other devices and applications work fine but EAS doesn't? Because MS has a financial interest in not supporting CardDAV.
The fact that I can't properly import my contacts and calendar to Outlook.com means that I'll never be able to switch to WP8. It will be my secondary phone until my contract is up, then I'll try something else.
- 12-26-2012, 12:33 AM #86something that works across platformshaving the exact same data on different devices running different OS version without issuesIf you've customized your Google Contacts phone, email or mailing address descriptions EAS doesn't sync any of that data.
If they used a standard like EAS for contacts, it wouldn't be a problem. It works fine for every other competitor in e-mail. Google's proprietary implementation is the issue.EAS doesn't work for everyone.
The only way you'll get usable synchronization with Google's proprietary and closed solution here is to run Google's proprietary app (on iOS) or Google's own OS with its support for Google's proprietary and closed contact app (Android).
If you value all the proprietary extensions to that degree, you should be okay with the lock-in. But please don't infer that Google's proprietary and closed service is somehow open.
- 12-26-2012, 02:21 AM #87Originally Posted by brmiller1976Originally Posted by brmiller1976Originally Posted by brmiller1976Originally Posted by brmiller1976Originally Posted by brmiller1976Originally Posted by brmiller1976Originally Posted by brmiller1976
- 12-26-2012, 03:37 AM #88
Sure, I use Outlook.com on my MacBook Pro every day. Works great.
And I'm not attacking your choice to embrace Google proprietary services. By all means, if Google's approach works best for you, grab that Android and par-tay.
- 12-26-2012, 03:39 AM #89
Make sure to check in and tell us how you're enjoying not having push services on your iPhone (without using Google's proprietary app), and if 45% less battery life (or alternatively, sync-every-hour) is worth having support for oddball custom contact fields. ;)
- 12-26-2012, 06:08 AM #90
I'm not going to assume that you and others might actually prefer a single company dominate the mobile web, although that isn't unheard of. It certainly would rid us of the incompatibilities we currently experience. Unfortunately, that implies asking for a strict dictatorship to replace a somewhat more messy democracy. IMHO, those who would sacrifice freedom for compatibility deserve neither.
Last edited by a5cent; 12-26-2012 at 11:01 AM.
- 12-26-2012, 06:54 AM #91
Last weekend I went mountain goose hunting. I took my new Ferrari up into the snowy alps and golly me, the damn thing just failed to do the job. With the 4x4 jeep I previously owned things worked much better. This entire discussion is about how restriction free my Ferrari is, even though there are serous compatibility issues between the two. Try to marginalize the point all you like, but I caught 400 geese last month using my jeep. Using my Ferrari I returned with but 30.
Yes, an utterly ridiculous argument. It could come from nowhere but an insane asylum, but it is exactly what your argument sounds like.
Ferraris and Jeeps aren't designed to do the same thing. Neither are EAS and CardDAV.
Nobody here is going to argue that using a Ferrari to go mountain goose hunting will result in a great experience, but blaming the Ferrari for that poor experience is insane. Simple as that.
If you want to blame somebody, blame Microsoft and Google for not having gotten together to develop a compatible contacts managements system. Although there's no chance of that ever happening, it at least makes more sense than blaming EAS.
I'm fully aware that this ridiculous analogy can be twisted to reflect an entirely different point of view. That isn't the point. The analogy serves only to point out the reason why it doesn't make sense to blame EAS for your poor syncing experience.
Last edited by a5cent; 12-26-2012 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Poorly written. Reworked
- 12-26-2012, 07:16 AM #92
I've met Microsoft half way, I bought a Lumia. You're trying to tell me that it's perfectly acceptable for MS to tell me to go screw because I dare choose to use evil Google's services.
MS got me on this first phone, but they can't afford for me throw in the towel. They need me to buy a Surface. They need for me to ditch my Mac and go Win 8. They need market share, and telling me that I'll have to work out my own contacts and calendar issues is a mistake for them.
It would be nice for me, the end user that's already given MS a shot by buying their phone if they would meet me half way and work out their own issues with sync.
- 12-26-2012, 07:21 AM #93
If you're talking about my iPad, I used the Google Gmail app with it for several months before I sold it. I had push. I had my contacts and I had my calendar. I had no issues with battery life at all.
When my Gmail account was set up in the Mail app (not as EAS) I had no issues with battery life at all, so your facts and figures came straight from your backside.
12-26-2012, 08:25 AM #94
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We all know Microsoft would be screwed sideways in court if they kicked Skype users out of their accounts, made them open an Outlook account in order to keep using it, then tampered with Skype's architecture so it didn't work well on other platforms...
- 12-26-2012, 09:28 AM #95
That change happened 2 years or more after Google bought YouTube. Given that MS has owned Skype for just a little over a year it would likely be wise to wait and see what they do with it. At $8.5 billion, MS will do what they have to do to try to make that investment pay off.
Aside from that, you're insinuating that Microsoft's history is as pure as the driven snow. We both know that is as far from the truth as you can get.
- 12-26-2012, 10:53 AM #97
- 12-26-2012, 10:58 AM #98
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
Although we pretty much disagree on every single point you made in that last post, I like your thinking-mans approach
Anyway, I will gladly attempt a rebuttal of every issue you mentioned in your previous post, but before I do, it is important to ensure we have a mutual understanding of a few things (big topic):
I suspect this issue is central to our disagreement, which is why I would also ask you to imagine, just for a moment, that allowing other browsers on WP would in fact give dictatorial power to Google (and to a lesser extent Apple) over the internet standards used on the web. Imagine that this actually would kill IE, FireFox and Opera on mobile devices. Assuming that were all true, would you still want other browsers on WP?
[BOX=Examples]The HTML5 standard is developed and maintained by the W3C. WebKit and Trident both implement that standard, although they aren't equally faithful to it.
The EAS protocol is developed and maintained by Microsoft, the specifications of which are publicly available. One of many products which use the EAS protocol is Microsoft's Exchange Server, but Apple, Google, RIM, Nokia and many others also have licenses to use the standard.[/BOX]
I agree that WebKit is a de facto standard on the mobile web (and only on the mobile web). Note however, that a de facto standard isn't a standard at all. A de facto standard is something that is treated as though it were a standard but isn't, often due to being overly dominant in one specific area, just as WebKit is on the mobile web.
None of this is really debatable, so I'm sure you will agree. Correct?
If you were referring to users instead of browser developers, then you would almost be correct, but only almost, as owning 90+% of the worlds mobile browser market share isn't 100% and thus still not everyone.
- 12-26-2012, 11:05 AM #99
- 12-26-2012, 11:17 AM #100
I really don't think the word you're looking for here is "proprietary". I believe the term "predatory" would be more appropriate for how you're trying to describe Goggle's practices. Using the term "proprietary" in any discussion involving Microsoft accusing another company of exhibiting a certain behavior would be somewhat laughable and most assuredly hypocritical as they've had the proprietary software market cornered for decades now. IBM may have started the proprietary software game, but MS perfected it based on Bill Gates' manic desire to see it locked it down starting as early as 1976.
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