Will WP8 devices get WP9 (or Blue)

a5cent

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Every windows phone 8 device will get supported at least 18months... <snipped>... So whatever updates or fixes they do within that time frame every phone will get.

I am sure WP8 will get OS updates for at least 18 months, but I don't think that means what you are implying.

MS' statement leaves two ways for WP8 not to get updated to WP9, without MS breaking any promises. WP9 might release only after 18 months have passed (Q2 2014), or alternatively, WP9 could release tomorrow, while WP8 continues to receive updates for the promised duration. The later is exactly how MS has dealt with WP7.x, BTW.

As always, I'm just using WP9 as a generic name for that update which WP8 devices no longer receive. Whatever it ends up being called is irrelevant in this context.
 
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jhoff80

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I am sure WP8 will get OS updates for at least 18 months, but when has MS ever said WP8 devices will get EVERY update during that time?

Come on, that's what that vaporware enthusiast early access program is for, obviously. :wink:

Clearly they've completely fixed the problem since all of us have gotten our updates so fast.
 

Jaskys

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WP8 devices will keep getting updates till we have huge kernel and hardware changes with new phones, that's kinda simple.
 

a5cent

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Come on, that's what that vaporware enthusiast early access program is for, obviously. :wink:

Clearly they've completely fixed the problem since all of us have gotten our updates so fast.

Not sure how that relates to my post you quoted, but yeah, MS' WP8 update procedure is completely screwed up, at least from an enthusiasts perspective. *cry*
 

jhoff80

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It was a reference to us being able to force all the updates over the 18 months if we were in the 'enthusiast program' they gave a passing reference about at their event and then it was never heard of ever again. :D
 

a5cent

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It was a reference to us being able to force all the updates over the 18 months if we were in the 'enthusiast program' they gave a passing reference about at their event and then it was never heard of ever again. :D

Ah, yes, absolutely. Apparently they screwed us on that one. However, that is an entirely different and most unfortunate problem.

What I was saying is that MS can simultaneously release WP9 at any time and not provide that to WP8 devices, meaning WP8 would not get EVERY update. Important is only that MS continues to provide updates to WP8 for the promised duration. MS wouldn't be breaking any promises with that approach.
 

travisel

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Windows Phone 8 is ARMv7 technology and will continue to use next generation Snapdragon 600/800 series SOC processor's.

Next generation Windows Phone 9 will be 64-bit! Now they could go with ARMv8 or Intel 64? If they go with ARMv8 technology like the upcoming "Nvidia Tegra 5" SOC processor, Then have full backwards compatibility with ARMv7 WP8 software platform. But if they go with Intel 64 (x86-64) technology they could go with upcoming "Intel Atom Bay Trail" SOC processor but then would lose all backwards compatibility with ARMv7 WP8 software platform!

So what's Microsoft going to use for next generation WP9?

- ARMv8 ? (RISC)

- Intel 64 ? (CISC)

Windows Phone 9 time frame should be around Q4 2014? 😎
 

a5cent

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What's Microsoft going to use for next generation WP9?

1)
The x86 / ARMv7 incompatibilities aren't the problem you think they are. Microsoft has already solved this for W8RT. The same app runs on both CPU architectures. That will work for WP8 apps too.

2)
I hope Microsoft doesn't go for any of the platforms you mentioned. I would prefer WP9 to run on the 14nm successor of Intel's Merrifield SoC. That would also be out much sooner than Q4 2014.
 

travisel

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1)
The x86 / ARMv7 incompatibilities aren't the problem you think they are. Microsoft has already solved this for W8RT. The same app runs on both CPU architectures. That will work for WP8 apps too.

2)
I hope Microsoft doesn't go for any of the platforms you mentioned. I would prefer WP9 to run on the 14nm successor of Intel's Merrifield SoC. That would also be out much sooner than Q4 2014.

Windows RT is ARMv7 Technology and can't use x86 or x86-64 so Microsoft did not solve the problem!

ARMv7 is 32-bit only! Next generation ARMv8 is 64-bit and Microsoft would have to make Windows RT64 to use ARMv8 software! Good thing is that ARMv8 is backwards compatible with ARMv7.

14nm Airmont SOC Intel Atom won't be ready in 2014! But Intel will have 22nm Silvermont SOC "Bay Trail" Intel Atom.

The future is 64-bit! SOC, ultra low power, Quad-Core/Octa-Core processor's with Direct-X 11.1/OpenGL 4.3 graphics, Cad 5 LTE, Wi-Fi a/c built in! 😎
 

a5cent

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Windows RT is ARMv7 Technology and can't use x86 or x86-64 so Microsoft did not solve the problem!

I thought you were previously talking about apps. Sorry. Windows store apps run on both x86 and ARMv7. That is what I meant was solved.

What you are referring to, is that ability of the OS itself to run on different CPU architectures. However, that too is solved, thanks to the shared and portable Windows kernel that's been discussed in the media this last while. The whole point of a kernel is to abstract away the differences in CPU architectures, so the software layers above it can ignore those differences. As it turns out, W8RT is just a subset of W8. That subset is already installed as part of every single W8 installation, so technically, we already have W8RT running on x86.

14nm Airmont SOC Intel Atom won't be ready in 2014! But Intel will have 22nm Silvermont SOC "Bay Trail" Intel Atom!

What I find on the web doesn't agree with you. That might have been true at one point, but Intel is speeding things up on the low-power side to defend better against ARM. Intel is delivering 14nm based parts for testing in less than four months. 14nm production will ramp up this year. Parts will be launched in 2014, possibly even early 2014.

Just as Merrifield is part of the Silvermont family, the successor to Merrififled will be part of the Airmont family, but it won't ship under that name. That SoC hasn't yet been announced and doesn't have a publicly disclosed codename.
 

stephen_az

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Yes. The thing is, Android and iOS have been around long enough for their update procedures to be fairly well understood. This is what people base their expectations on. However, although everyone realizes iOS has a completely different approach to updates than Android, and visa versa, few can imagine that WP too might have it's own and entirely unique approach to major version updates. It does.

Microsoft, Apple and Google have different ideas about how an ecosystem is best maintained and what types of fragmentation are tolerable. These differing views are what each OS developer's unique approach to major version updates can be traced back to.

WP devices won't update to major new versions like iOS does.

What complicates matters somewhat, is that version numbers are nothing more than arbitrary labels. Microsoft can decide to call WP8.1 WP2013. Instead if WP8.5 they can call it WP-Blue, or instead of WP9 they can call it WP8.9. Version numbers don't really mean anything. My point is, there will be a cutoff point that coincides with the introduction of new hardware, and that point will come far earlier than it does on iOS.

To quote your own prior post:

"Based on what do you believe that to be true?"

You have said absolutely nothing that demonstrates you have any genuine inside information to speak so directly about the WP8 update trajectory. .
 

stephen_az

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lol, and how do you know?

BTW: was talking only about major version updates, not 8.x

I had to deal with comments like yours back before WP8 was released as well. Most expected WP7 to update too.

If you don't like it, fine. Just consider it food for thought.

If you try using the phrase "I think" or any typical variant, it is food for thought. To state absolutely that it will not update implies some inside knowledge you obvious do not possess.
 

a5cent

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"Based on what do you believe that to be true?"

You have said absolutely nothing that demonstrates you have any genuine inside information to speak so directly about the WP8 update.

So what do you want me to say? If I said I was Joe Bellfiore, would that add any credibility? Of course not. I don't think I can prove anything sitting behind a keyboard.

I think my past posts have shown I know at least a little bit about what is going on. Make of it what you will.
 

nube_android

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Well, basically you guys are saying I wont get all of the WP9 features. Kind of disappointing. I think I may go for an iPhone 5 knowing I'll get updates for like 4 years.
 

travisel

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I thought you were previously talking about apps. Sorry. Windows store apps run on both x86 and ARMv7. That is what I meant was solved.

What you are referring to, is that ability of the OS itself to run on different CPU architectures. However, that too is solved, thanks to the shared and portable Windows kernel that's been discussed in the media this last while. The whole point of a kernel is to abstract away the differences in CPU architectures, so the software layers above it can ignore those differences. As it turns out, W8RT is just a subset of W8. That subset is already installed as part of every single W8 installation, so technically, we already have W8RT running on x86.



What I find on the web doesn't agree with you. That might have been true at one point, but Intel is speeding things up on the low-power side to defend better against ARM. Intel is delivering 14nm based parts for testing in less than four months. 14nm production will ramp up this year. Parts will be launched in 2014, possibly even early 2014.

Just as Merrifield is part of the Silvermont family, the successor to Merrififled will be part of the Airmont family, but it won't ship under that name. That SoC hasn't yet been announced and doesn't have a publicly disclosed codename.

Again the only 14nm Intel will have available for consumers in 2014 in Intel Broadwell microarchitecture! (5th generation) at the same time as Intel Atom 22nm Silvermont "Bay Trail".

14nm Airmont Atom & Intel Skylake microarchitecture (6th generation) is set for 2015!

I only wish you were right but unfortunately we wait!
 

a5cent

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Again the only 14nm Intel will have available for consumers in 2014 in Intel Broadwell microarchitecture! (5th generation) at the same time as Intel Atom 22nm Silvermont "Bay Trail"!

It was back in 2011, at an investors meeting, when Intel released their first roadmap showing a planned Airmont release for 2014 (bottom right):

AtomRoadmap.jpg

This has been repeated all over the web ever since, including on Wikipedia:

"In May 2011, Intel has announced an accelerated roadmap for Atom SoC, with 22 nm Silvermont core scheduled in 2013, and 14 nm Airmont core scheduled in 2014"

I don't work at Intel, but to the best of my knowledge, that roadmap hasn't changed.
 

sentimentGX4

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1)The x86 / ARMv7 incompatibilities aren't the problem you think they are. Microsoft has already solved this for W8RT. The same app runs on both CPU architectures. That will work for WP8 apps too.
I don't even believe the same app actually runs on both Windows 8 and Windows RT. Windows 8 is likely using a virtual machine or emulator to run RT apps except we don't notice much impact in speed since x86 is so much faster than ARM. RT doesn't have the processing power to handle a virtual machine running x86 programs and its unlikely any virtual machine will make programs like Photoshop run smoothly in the foreseeable future.
 

a5cent

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I don't even believe the same app actually runs on both Windows 8 and Windows RT.

The whole process is too complicated to discuss here, but in the simplest scenario, yes, the exact same app runs unmodified on both W8 and W8RT. I'm omitting a million little details of course, but that gets the gist of it. You don't have to believe me. Just do some research. It is all publicly available information, like on this blog from a Microsoft employee. Quote:

"developing an app for Windows on ARM is the same as developing a Metro style app for x86/64 PCs; that is, the same Metro style app will run on either hardware."

Of course I'm not talking about traditional desktop software like Photoshop. I'm talking only about Windows Store apps. Finally, both W8 and W8RT run Windows Store apps in a VM. It's called the .NET runtime environment.
 

travisel

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Well, basically you guys are saying I wont get all of the WP9 features. Kind of disappointing. I think I may go for an iPhone 5 knowing I'll get updates for like 4 years.

You right! Just like WM6.5 can't use WP7 software and WP7.8 can't use WP8 software!

WP8 won't use WP9 especially if it's ARMv8 or Intel 64 hardware used for next generation platform. Just the way it goes!

Can you play PS3 games on PS2? Same thing here.

The best you could hope for is WP9 uses ARMv8 hardware technology that can still use all old ARMv7 WP8 software! I personally don't care about backwards compatibility because I want new apps with my new Phone. 😁
 

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