- 11-28-2012, 10:00 AM #51
The "one is better then the other" debate is so 2010 and immature. Come here when you can speak of your own experience, then offer advice. Otherwise, you're doing nothing more then a Google search, which we all can do ourselves.
- 11-28-2012, 10:17 AM #52
Ok, StevesBalls - Like I have said for the 3rd time now, I DO NOT WANT AN IPAD. This is NOT AN IPAD forum, this is specifcally meant for the Surface RT.
My Thread asks that I wanted ppls honest opinion on the Surface RT. Honest opinion being one from an actual owner of the device. I have read the reviews and I feel almost 90% of them are biased and almost all of them are from the "pre-release, pre-update" version.
Almost all North American, especially from the US reviews are biased towards Apple, at least this has been my observation, whether it be windows phone 7, 8, Surface RT or Windows anything.
This is why I wanted feedback from real Surface owners. I was an early adopter of Windows Phone, I took the bad reviews, the teasing and crap thrown on the internet, but I have not once regretted my decision to go to Windows Phone from day 1. The same will go with the Surface, yes all new products have bugs, but for some reason all reviewers/tech sites tend to point out these flaws more on Windows devices for some reason. Yet anything that happens with Apple seems to not get exposed. Like all the problems with the iPhone5, and there are a ton which I won't get into, yet those same reviewers give the Lumia 920 so-so reviews cause its a brick? lol.. 185 grams is not heavy unless you're a 5 year old, even still my 2.5 year old has no issues using the Kids Corner on my 920, I haven't heard a peep from her saying its too heavy :P
Apple in its own right is great, but its getting old fast. The UI is boring, its dated and to me the iPad is in the same class as the Vtech InnoTab. A tablet for kids, a toy. Comparing apps from iPad to Surface is ridiculous, but hey, its really all it has against it... for now. I guess it has a higher resolution display, but its 4:3. And honestly, on such a small screen it doesn't make a difference, nay-sayers will defend the "retina display" all they want, but that is no different than the Apple loyalists saying that they have the best phone ever.. oh wait, I mean iPhone ever. Which really doesn't say much.
Anyways, I want to thank the Surface owners on their input. I am going to get the Surface RT. Most likely the 64GB. I've already ordered my 64GB Sandisk microSDXC to increase my storage capacity to 128GB and I've ordered a Zagg full body kit (not sure I will use it, but just in case).
I am just trying to decide if I should wait for a potential sale (boxing day maybe?), or just go ahead and buy it now. If there is a sale after Xmas, and its like the Black Friday one, I'd rather buy it now since I don't care for a discounted second keyboard.
- 11-28-2012, 10:37 AM #53
I was going to purchase a Surface RT and decided against it and got an Asus Vivo Tab RT instead. It has nearly identical internals to the Surface RT, including the Tegra 3 processor, but adds NFC and has a smaller screen. There were a couple main reasons I went with the Vivo over the Surface:
1. After playing with the Surface at a pop up store, I felt it was too large to use as a stand alone tablet. 10.1", like the Vivo RT, is pushing it in my opinion and the 10.6" of the Surface RT felt unwieldly in hand to me.
2. No NFC on the Surface seemed like a glaring omission to me (I understand why they had to leave it out, but I don't like that they did)
3. The Vivo Tab dock adds extra battery and is better for lap use, which was a huge consideration for me. This is probably the biggest reason. As awesome as I think the touch cover is, 90% of the time I use a keyboard, its on my lap and the Vivo Tab's keyboard is better for that.
11-28-2012, 10:38 AM #54
- 10 Posts
I owned a Surface RT, pretty good! I prefer it more than iPad...there are fewer choice of apps on Windows RT, so i usually use it for social networking and web browsing. but those apps which are available for Surface RT is actually quite good, performs better than the same apps on other platform...and you dont need facebook or fb messenger apps...people hub combine everything, messaging hub combine everything, pictures, music, videos and calendar! Windows 8 is more about integration, and very easy to use! The most friendly UI i ever use and it's really fast...if you want to do more things, wait for Surface Pro, runs on Intel processor, just like a laptop specs with tablet appearance...conclusion, surface RT is a very good product...i would like to keep it for leisure uses, and buy a Surface Pro in the future
- 11-28-2012, 11:28 AM #56
Microsoft’s new tablet, called “Surface”, went on sale a few weeks ago with some fanfare. The reviews around the tech world were mixed at best. Reading these reviews was making me angry. No journalist owed Microsoft a positive review, but the reviewers totally missed the boat on what the Surface is. Every review compared it to the iPad. I am not going to do a review of the Surface, as I will let others make their own opinions. However, I ask that you look at it in this light. The iPad is a device made for media consumption, social, gaming, and other personal activities that can be used if need be for some work product. The Surface is a device that is made for work product that can be used for media consumption, social, gaming, and other personal activities. The entire basis for each product is inverse to the other. Therefore just doing a review where you compare the two products is intellectually dishonest.
Now Microsoft has to take some blame here as well. They have done an awful job explaining the device, and have done an even worse job describing what will run on it. Everyone by now has seen the new Windows 8 ads showing the next version of Windows. I think it is safe to say that most people know what Windows is as this point. However the Surface runs Windows RT. What in the world is Windows RT? It really is a version of Windows that only runs apps designed for the platform. However, a lot of people see the word Windows and assume that it will run all of their Windows apps. This problem could have been solved very easily. They should never have named the operating system Windows RT. In fact they should not have put the name Windows in it at all. They should have called it Surface OS. Most people would understand that you can only run Surface OS apps on your Surface. Unlike the iPad which only has Apple making them, Microsoft allows any hardware company to make a Windows RT device. These devices should have been called “powered by Surface OS”. This also allows Microsoft another marketing point. They can advertise to their Windows 8 buyers that their machines run Windows and Surface applications.
At this point I would just tell you to go to your local Microsoft Store or Best Buy to check out these devices. The Surface is only sold at Microsoft stores, however there are other RT devices being sold elsewhere. Best Buy has an ACER tablet running Windows RT that is very nice. The ease with which these devices connect to a keyboard is great, and they will run your native Office applications such as Word and PowerPoint. Right now there is no Outlook for Windows RT, but you can setup your mail account to use the built in mail, address book, and calendar apps. I am just happy there is a new player on the block that looks like it will have staying power. I see Microsoft being able to position itself with its new phones and tablets as the new Blackberry. Devices you can use for fun, but they are made for work.
- 11-28-2012, 12:20 PM #57
The thinness, and even more so the lightness, are huge advantages of the Vivo. Having used an iPad 2 and a Vivo, I can say that after an hour of use, your wrist notices the weight difference.
- 11-28-2012, 02:29 PM #58
The reasons why the Surface (and the same can be applied to WP) is not a knockout success are very simple:
1) Ecosystem that lacks behind the competition
2) An OS that was rushed to market (applies both to WP8 and WinRT) and therefore again lacks in many regards compared to the competition (and please note that MS also competes with itself with RT vs x86 Windows).
3) Microsoft's marketing sucks.
There is no dark magic behind it, no cospiracy. Nobody is out to trash your beloved Surface. When MS makes a great product and throws it's weight behind it it will succeed. You only need to look at the Xbox as an example. It's that simple. Once Microsoft brings that same A Game to the phone and tablet market they will dominate it too. But that time is not now.
And I completely understand your point. But the truth is that everything the Surface can do, my laptop already does. And more and better. There is nothing I can do on the Surface that I can't do on my laptop. But the same is not true vice versa, quite the opposite - compared to a full fledged x86 based laptop the Surface is rather limited. And as a tablet it can't compete with the iPad. And so it's stuck somewhere in between in a place that most consumers don't care about and which makes it really difficult to make a case for it.
Last edited by StevesBalls; 11-28-2012 at 02:55 PM.
- 11-28-2012, 03:07 PM #59
And it's not meant to compete with the iPad. There is no use in trying to compete with an iPad, it will end up on the losing end every time. Whether that's right or wrong is open for debate. The RT fits nicely in between an iPad and a laptop. I can list things a Surface RT can do the iPad can't. It doesn't mean one is better then the other.
- 11-28-2012, 03:36 PM #60
This has been a very interesting thread. I, too, am deciding what to do about the Surface RT.
Let me give a bit of background. I have been using word since Word 2.0 for DOS. It's still my favorite word processor and I am more comfortable there than any place else. I have kept it updated on both Windows and Mac platforms. I primarily use Mac because of the Bible software called Accordance that is Mac only (although they just announced a Windows version arriving sometime in 2013). I have taught basic computing at our local community college which was a bit of operating system stuff but mostly Office 2010 minus my favorite Office app OneNote.
I have been an iPad user since day one (I was literally one of the first to receive the iPad as I got it on release day at 8:15 am on the East Coast - my 15 minutes of fame) and I'm on the iPad 3 now. I bought a Surface RT a couple of weeks after it came out. So, I'm not a new user, nor am I pounding for one platform over the other. I just want to get stuff done, find out what's new in world, read my books, etc. It's much more about use than anything else.
So, with about a week left of my initial 30 days, I'm struggling with the decision to keep it or return it as I wait for something more powerful. I guess we learned earlier this week that Microsoft won't be abandoning it (they said 4+ years of support), but I'm not sure what that means. Do they mean full support or virus definition updates - don't know. Will the app store get substantially better? Will the apps get better fast enough to matter? I have a few loaded that are a joke right now - Evernote stinks in Metro (or whatever we should be calling it). My Logos Bible app will only let you read online - no downloads, no highlighting, no notes, no sync (all of which it has on both iOS and Android), Kindle app has storage problems, etc., etc. I realize that these apps are not mature yet, but I wonder how long it will take for them to get so. I wonder how long it will take for the Metro OS to do things like use the SD card easily, have favorites in Explorer (only the desktop version seems to have this), etc. etc. It feels like a crap shoot right now, and that's my dilemma - do I keep the current Version 1.0 tablet and hope, or do I return it for something more powerful?
I don't know yet. Twice I've started to reset the Surface to return it, but then, damn - it's great hardware. I love having the keyboard attached, and the easy way it detaches or moves out of the way. I love the stand, I love having a USB port so I can use a mouse when I want. I love having the widescreen display and the swipe gestures it uses. So, damn, I don't reset and use it for a couple of more days until my doubt on the long term viability of the device grows.
Right now it's sitting on my desk, the packing is in the MS bag next to it and I'm still pondering it's future. It's strengths and weakness are pretty evident, all I want is that one killer app to push it over into the keep side.
- 11-28-2012, 03:48 PM #62
It was actually along with the CPU the main point of criticism in every review. I don't think anybody downplays the importance of that. But please consider two things: Apple actually competes with itself - they introduced the Retina display and raised the bar for everybody, even themselves. And secondly, the iPad Mini screen actually has a higher PPI than the Surface (163 PPI vs 148 PPI). So it's not a bad screen by any means, people are just spoiled by Apple. There are many reasons why they did not put a Retina display on the Mini - technical limitations, costs, weight, battery life etc... You can be damn sure that Apple considered all the pros and cons. And once it's feasible the Mini will get a Retina display too. But they will do it without compromising the overall quality of the device. And of course keeping their healthy profit margins (I don't believe for a second that they have a lower margin on that thing as they do on the big iPad).
The simple truth why people love Apple is because they make damn good products. Again, it's that easy. Take the build quality for example. The Surface is the first tablet that has a comparable build quality to the iPad. How long did that take? Look at all the ****ty Android tablets, it's a disgrace... People are free to not like Apple as a company, but they can't deny that their products are top notch.
- 11-28-2012, 04:09 PM #63
One thing can't be ignored, and this has to do with all non-apple products being covered. A lot of websites and "blogs" have created their existence and made a lot of money climbing with apple. It is their cash cow, and now they live and report from this bubble.
- 11-28-2012, 04:12 PM #64
- 11-28-2012, 05:19 PM #65The simple truth why people love Apple is because they make damn good products. Again, it's that easy. Take the build quality for example. The Surface is the first tablet that has a comparable build quality to the iPad. How long did that take? Look at all the ****ty Android tablets, it's a disgrace... People are free to not like Apple as a company, but they can't deny that their products are top notch.
Example - I don't feel isolated from my data with the Surface. I have a Documents folder, a Music folder, a Pictures folder, etc. I have access to them and can organize them as I see fit. With iPad I felt Apple was trying to shield me from ever seeing a file system or being able to control my data on the device. Surface has allowed me to connect to nearly all my wireless printers in my office (not the high end production printer or copiers that don't have drivers for RT). With Apple I have to purchase printers with AirPrint to work, or put a device on the network to translate AirPrint commands (such as a product from Lantronix). I also have to have Apple networking equipment to support Bonjour services - my existing IT infrastructure doesn't seem to play well with Bonjour (MDNS) so the AirPrint and AirPlay broadcasts get lost on the network and stop working after 30 minutes to an hour.
As I've mentioned before, there are excellent apps for iPad for production, such as Documents to Go, or QuickOffice Pro HD, that let us work with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint files. But they are not complete packages, so my staff has to work around the issue with redline contracts, multisheet spreadsheets with charting capability, etc. Instead of the software giving the user a complete solution (such as someone making Open Office for iOS), we have to work around it. Surface gives us that capability. While I agree with you on the power of a laptop, there are those times when a tablet is more convenient. My CFO, for example, jumped at the concept of being able to work on financial spreadsheets with full Excel while sitting on the train - or even reviewing new files with complete features.
No doubt the iPad is king, and Apple makes great hardware - but Surface just fits our business better by letting us do our work the way we want without having to change our approach.
- 11-28-2012, 05:35 PM #66
To me, IE10 is slow and seems a little buggy even after the tweaks, needs to be much smoother and faster. I think ie10 ranks one of the lowest on tablets?
App selection is poor, yes, it is not about quantity and about quality, but there are not essential popular apps in the app store and not even close to other tablets. There isn't even a facebook app, the people hub doesn't recognize many feeds and the people app is really slow and crashes a lot.
Games are tad expensive and not a very good selection. Need better platformers and RPG type games, i would guess this would be possible to get original xbox type quality on this tablet and maybe some xbox arcade games.
- 11-28-2012, 05:40 PM #67Games are tad expensive and not a very good selection. Need better platformers and RPG type games, i would guess this would be possible to get original xbox type quality on this tablet and maybe some xbox arcade games.
As for App selection - give it some time. It's been out for 1 month. Apple didn't have a massive collection of top-notch apps 1 month after the iPad 1 was released - it takes time.
11-28-2012, 06:31 PM #68
- 37 Posts
1. Screen very noticeably flickers at lower brightness settings while displaying white / light colored content. Go into a dark room to see the full effect.
2. Very cheap and flimsy feeling build quality
3. Issues with color gradients. Do a Google image search for gradients, there is unbelievable banding
- 11-29-2012, 10:41 AM #69
I completely disagree with point 2. Does it feel as premium as a Surface or iPad, no it doesn't. But it doesn't fell cheap either. It feels better than Samsung tablets do (at least their Android ones).
3 yes, it has grading issues.
That said, no product is perfect. I think that despite their similarities the Vivo and Surface, which are both good products are both good for different sets of people.
11-29-2012, 02:03 PM #70
- 206 Posts
Ok so the one thing I am a little bothered by is watching videos on the surface. Obviously the software that renders the text isn't going to work and the resolution is low, wish I had a Surface Pro but not gonna shell out a thousand more dollars to watch videos at 1080. But I would really like it...anyone want to buy it for me?
Touch cover really takes some time depending on how much you type on it. I think probably I have finally gotten used to it and there are close to no errors when I type. At first it was a little hard because the spacing was a little different and the key obviously don't have a lot of give so the feel is massively different. It is pretty amazing though.
- 11-29-2012, 02:41 PM #71
Is 720P resolution that poor on a 10.6" screen?
I remember the days when 1080p was still new and that it was really only something that was "visually" noticeable to the human eye on monitors/screens that were 46" and larger.
I actually found this site after posting my comment:
1ft away is pretty close in my opinion to take advantage of 1080p according to this site. 2ft seems more realistic, which shows that 720p would be optimal.
12-03-2012, 10:38 PM #72
- 1 Posts
I originally started with an iPad...in fact, I've owned two iPads and three iPhones. While I liked Apple devices, I find the whole cult of mac to be extremely creepy. I never liked walking into a crowded Apple store...I always joked that it felt like an atheist walking into the middle of Sunday mass. When I bought "The New iPad" people congratulated me as I was walking out. CREEPY! Just leave me alone and let me buy my electronics in peace (I swear I heard Hotel California playing when I walked in).
After seeing The Surface in action, I finally saw a device that fit into my overall ecosystem better. I've always built my own PCs and run Windows. I also disagreed with the way Apple handled the iPad 4 announcement. I had purchased my iPad 3 two months prior, and when the guy said, "This one already makes the last one look old" I had it with Apple. Plus I was tired of the grid of icons, having to use iTunes, no mouse support made editing text a fat-finger nightmare, and the fact that I owned a phone and a tablet that everyone else on the planet owned...and they all looked the same! There's no more "Thinking Different" going on here..
I originally pre-ordered my Surface RT and had it delivered to me. I even took the day off to accept it form FedEx. I used it for about four days before I started feeling a little buyers remorse. What happened is that I started looking at my other Windows 8 touch-screen options and wondered if I shouldn't have gotten a Thinkpad Twist or a Yoga instead. The other problem was that I saw all the apps in the Windows 8 store on my PC that I thought I was going to be able to run on The Surface RT. Turns out that there are Windows 8 only apps in the app store and that also led to some disappointment.
So I did some searching, discovered the Think Pad Twist and decided to ship my Surface RT back to Redmond. I picked up the Think Pad from Staples and used it for a few days. Thats when I realized that this was overkill. Here I had in my hands a full Windows 8 Ultrabook Hybrid that I was using mostly in tablet mode. LOL. Then I read about the firmware upgrade that seemed to improve SurfaceRT performance and also had read that Google finally ported their search app to Windows RT. OMG! I should have waited!! :)
I suddenly started to miss the SurfaceRT because it did exactly what I needed and nothing more. So I ended up taking the Think Pad back (it had a horrible battery life anyways...less than four hours) and grabbing another Surface RT from our local kiosk at the mall. I saved about $300 doing so.
Even funnier is that my contracting company gave me a Nexus 7 during this time. So I now own a SurfaceRT and a Nexus 7.
I will say that I really love the SurfaceRT. The new Windows RT OS works nicely on it and you will get addicted to the gestures. I think reading news on it is the best experience, better than even the iPad. The Split Screen has been used more than I thought it would. I like to watch podcasts during my lunch at work, and this lets me watch a podcast AND surf the web at the same time. You cant do that right now on iOS. In fact, when I use my Nexus 7, I often forget it doesn't support Windows 8 gestures and I've found myself trying to split the screen on more than one occasion! :)
My only caveat to SurfaceRT is that the apps aren't coming as quickly as I'd like them to. Every day I check the store and it's the same stuff over and over again. There are still a few un-optimized games (Pinball FX 2 is the biggest offender) that are still laggy with horrible frame rates. On the other hand, there have been a few updates and additions of Windows 8 only apps that I use on my desktop PC. Finally seeing Hydro Thunder run at a smooth frame rate has alleviated my fears that RT wouldn't make a good gaming machine. It's actually quite impressive now...and works with my wired XBOX 360 controller to boot!
You mentioned the Atom tablet, and this also makes me nervous. Which platform does Microsoft intend to support more? Atom or ARM? I just wish Microsoft would divulge it's plans for Surface RT.
As I mentioned, I also own a Nexus 7 and really have fallen in love with the Android Jellybean OS. I've noticed the sudden surge of apps that are appearing in the Google Play store, many of them were things I ran on the iPad and am happy to have them back again. I think if the Surface RT fails, then I'll be moving over to a Nexus 10.
So would I recommend the SurfaceRT? Definitely. Just be aware that the apps (especially games) seem to be coming at a snails pace at the moment. I am happy that games like TapTiles and Minesweeper have finally made their way to the platform. I just hope more developers decide to jump on board...
- 12-04-2012, 01:28 PM #75
I debated, and debated....read review after review, and decided to buy it, and if i didnt like it, id return it.
Let me start off by saying, i own an ipad, and a rooted android phone - I hate the ipad, love my phone, but Google has been annoying me lately. I am really intrigued by WP8, and will seriously consider it in a year when my contract is up. I hate my that i have to plug the ipad into my computer, and do everything through itunes - which is the worst software known to man imho.
Ive had it for 4 days now, and can say, ive only picked up my ipad one time, and it was because there is no NFL Ticket app for windows 8 yet. So many people complain that it doesnt have this app or that app - really, what apps do you actually use on a regular basis on your ipad. For me, the only ones missing are Flipboard (Bento is just as good), Chrome (full version of IE 10 beats mobile chrome by a longshot), Autocad WS, Photoshop touch, and Dropbox (skydrive has more storage free, and is baked into the device). The IE browser can view, and use all your google stuff - drive, music, g+. etc until google makes an app for windows 8, and if they dont, then they are just plain stupid, because i only give it a few months before im off google music, and drive, and on xbox music, and skydrive. Full MS office - dont think i need to beat a dead horse on this...The biggest reason i see to get this thing, is REMOTE DESKTOP....people dont get that running official windows remote desktop is 1000x's better than using logmein, etc. My surface will be my mobile computer - when i need more intense applications, i can remote into my computer at home, and run remote apps like AutoCAD, Photoshop CS whatever, Illustrator, etc....The pro version will only get half the battery life, and let me tell you how well graphics intense programs run on ultrabooks - they dont. You get essentially the same performance running remote. Only issue, is that you need to understand networking, etc in order to set this up. Ive scoured the boards, and figured it out, and my Ipad is now going to be a hand me down to my 3 year old, because thats what the thing is - Itoy
Lets talk about the hardware...this thing has usb port that you can plug in most if not all of your periphals...mice, full size keyboards, hard drives, etc. has expandable storage, the plusses go on and on and on. The Apps will come, and if they dont, run remote. My laptop at home is 3 years old, I plan to upgrade, but not with a laptop, with a good desktop that I can run remotely from my tablet.
Biggest con in my book, is that MS left out support for Silverlight - which is their own technology. It makes absolutely no sense, and prevents me from streaming Time Warner Cable through the browser.........guess ill have to hold out hope that they make an Windows 8 app, and port to RT - same with nfl ticket.
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