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  1. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #1  
    It is supposedly coming in 2014, at some point.

    I was wondering if you think it will still be tied to the win32 libraries, or if you think we will be getting a proper WinRT version. Should they bother making one or would it be better if they just kept the win32 libraries in Windows RT indefinitely?
  2. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
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    #2  
    They should get rid of the Win32 libraries, especially if only Office is utilizing them.

    Office RT using WinRT? Yes, please.
  3. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingTraveler View Post
    They should get rid of the Win32 libraries, especially if only Office is utilizing them.

    Office RT using WinRT? Yes, please.
    I believe they said there are two applications using win32 at this point. And something tells me they're working hard at moving IE as well, since it isn't the most complicated thing out there.
  4. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    when you say two applications, IE and what other application? Office? That's actually several applications. There are also LOTS of apps like Paint, etc that will either have to be deprecated or rewritten to WinRT
    I lumped all of Office together, yes.

    Paint? :| Okay, so there are only a few NEEDED apps that depend on win32. If Microsoft can't make a Modern UI Paint, they should just close up shop now because they're obviously incompetent.
  5. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    Paint, Notepad, Powershell, cmd prompt...these are all desktop apps I use on a daily basis and are very much "needed" to eschew Desktop once and for all. I also need modern UI replacements for things like MMC and other admin utilities which invariably link to win32 libraries.
    The fact that they don't have Modern UI versions of most of those is... kind of sad, really.
  6. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #6  
    Notepad 8 app for Windows in the Windows Store There's a notepad.
    Fresh Paint app for Windows in the Windows Store Might work for paint, don't know what you use paint for

    Those are the only two I have found alternatives for.
  7. loribinca's Avatar
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    #7  
    They need to bring these out then finally get rid of the desktop on RT .. wasn't it only included for office anyway?
  8. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #8  
    Getting rid of the desktop would be a huge mistake. Many of the same dependencies that the desktop has are also dependencies for Metro, so you're not going to save space. The desktop UI is only loaded when you use the desktop, so it's not going to save other system resources.

    However, what it does provide is a highly flexible power user environment, including many of the things mentioned above like Powershell and the Management Console. If your company sets up RemoteApp on a server, it also provides a very compelling thin client setup. Even just when using Office... sure it'll be great to have WinRT versions, but often it's helpful to be able to view multiple sources while typing something up in Office, or to have a few different spreadsheets on screen to prepare a Powerpoint sales presentation or things along those lines.

    By all means, they need to continue to make the desktop less necessary like they're doing with 8.1. I've even said in the past that there needs to be a lock switch in PC Settings, where it'll prevent you from ever seeing the desktop at all unless you enable this option and read a disclaimer about a non-optimized touch experience. Removing it entirely though, that just doesn't make sense.
  9. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Getting rid of the desktop would be a huge mistake. Many of the same dependencies that the desktop has are also dependencies for Metro, so you're not going to save space. The desktop UI is only loaded when you use the desktop, so it's not going to save other system resources.

    However, what it does provide is a highly flexible power user environment, including many of the things mentioned above like Powershell and the Management Console. If your company sets up RemoteApp on a server, it also provides a very compelling thin client setup. Even just when using Office... sure it'll be great to have WinRT versions, but often it's helpful to be able to view multiple sources while typing something up in Office, or to have a few different spreadsheets on screen to prepare a Powerpoint sales presentation or things along those lines.

    By all means, they need to continue to make the desktop less necessary like they're doing with 8.1. I've even said in the past that there needs to be a lock switch in PC Settings, where it'll prevent you from ever seeing the desktop at all unless you enable this option and read a disclaimer about a non-optimized touch experience. Removing it entirely though, that just doesn't make sense.
    The main benefit of moving everything to the Modern UI would be space. I say this because they could remove the last vestiges of win32 (and that takes up more space than you would think).
  10. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Alan Goff View Post
    The main benefit of moving everything to the Modern UI would be space. I say this because they could remove the last vestiges of win32 (and that takes up more space than you would think).
    Metro itself is still dependent on most of the COM libraries and such, just like Win32 is.
  11. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    what in the world would you use Desktop for once Office and all the necessary apps are migrated off? There is zero purpose for Desktop at that point.
    Exactly what I said in the post you're quoting.
  12. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Metro itself is still dependent on most of the COM libraries and such, just like Win32 is.
    I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

    We shouldn't need the win32 libraries.
  13. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #13  
    No, I'm getting what you're saying... but Metro runs on top of Win32:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WinRT_architecture..png 
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  14. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #14  
    Well, for example, on a Surface RT's built-in screen, you can still only have two snapped apps at a time in Metro, even in 8.1. A college student writing a report or someone creating a sales presentation could very easily need to see more than that at once in order to do what they're trying to do.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Metro is great. There's still a very compelling use case for the desktop too though. Sure, it would probably most likely be a power user thing, but if you're not really saving much space, and you're not forcing anyone to the desktop like is currently the case in 8.0, there's never going to be any real reason it needs to be removed entirely.
  15. iamtim's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Well, for example, on a Surface RT's built-in screen, you can still only have two snapped apps at a time in Metro, even in 8.1.
    I thought 8.1 would let you have 3 snapped apps...?
  16. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    No, I'm getting what you're saying... but Metro runs on top of Win32:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WinRT_architecture..png 
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    That, good sir, is a crappy design.

    I had hoped better from them. Are you sure that's on Windows RT as well?
  17. stephen_az's Avatar
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    #17  
    People can ponder all they like but I doubt a rewrite of Office is even on anyone's drawing board. The goal is, as it has been, to offer a common user experience across platforms. The common user experience is the desktop version of Office. Even the web apps are made to look and feel like Office on a desktop. There is no need for a version for the Modern UI and I expect the most one will ever see is some crippled and clumsy token like the OneNote app. Anyone expecting to see the desktop go away is probably in for a very long wait. The goal has never been to have two different user experiences. That is the reason why Bill Gates stepped in and helped kill the Courier slate project. Quite frankly, you will see RT shelved before anyone will allow it to look like anything other than Windows 8 or its eventual successor.
  18. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen_az View Post
    People can ponder all they like but I doubt a rewrite of Office is even on anyone's drawing board. The goal is, as it has been, to offer a common user experience across platforms. The common user experience is the desktop version of Office. Even the web apps are made to look and feel like Office on a desktop. There is no need for a version for the Modern UI and I expect the most one will ever see is some crippled and clumsy token like the OneNote app. Anyone expecting to see the desktop go away is probably in for a very long wait. The goal has never been to have two different user experiences. That is the reason why Bill Gates stepped in and helped kill the Courier slate project. Quite frankly, you will see RT shelved before anyone will allow it to look like anything other than Windows 8 or its eventual successor.
    We have credible reason to believe there is a Modern UI Office coming, though.

    Microsoft: 'Metro-Style' Office not due until 2014 | ZDNet
  19. iamtim's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen_az View Post
    Even the web apps are made to look and feel like Office on a desktop.
    Really? You're right with SharePoint 2013, but have you logged into Outlook.com lately? Or SkyDrive? I'll bet money right now that SharePoint 2014 will look more like Outlook.com/SkyDrive/"Metro" than desktop Office.
  20. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    I thought 8.1 would let you have 3 snapped apps...?
    That depends on the screen resolution.
  21. iamtim's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    That depends on the screen resolution.
    Right. I suppose I should have added "on the Surface RT".
  22. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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       #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    Right. I suppose I should have added "on the Surface RT".
    That would be a no, at least when I had 8.1 on my RT (I eventually went back to 8.0)
  23. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    Right. I suppose I should have added "on the Surface RT".
    Only when connected to an external display.

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