And with this answer Surface owners just got screwed....

[inteller]

just wait and see peeps....

 

[theefman]

Don't see what the fuss is about. This device will be almost 3 years old by the time Windows 10 comes out, and the hardware was old even when it was first released so its not that unreasonable if it doesn't get an upgrade to Windows 10 in 2015.


Sent from my Surface Pro 3 using Tapatalk

 

[WillysJeepMan]

just wait and see peeps....

You can't win. Even if you point to Microsoft's track-record there will be those that will claim that "this time it is different" or "it's not the same thing this time". Microsoft is a Fortune 500 company and plays by the same rulebook as corporations like IBM. Sure Microsoft tries to present a "geek-chic" image to the public, but they run their business like any other F500 company.

Those who understand that will see through the corporate-speak, those who don't, see Belfiore and Panay as their "buddies". :grin:

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

You can't win. Even if you point to Microsoft's track-record there will be those that will claim that "this time it is different" or "it's not the same thing this time". Microsoft is a Fortune 500 company and plays by the same rulebook as corporations like IBM. Sure Microsoft tries to present a "geek-chic" image to the public, but they run their business like any other F500 company.

Those who understand that will see through the corporate-speak, those who don't, see Belfiore and Panay as their "buddies". :grin:

I don't "see them as my buddies", I just see that the transition from Windows 8.1 to 10 isn't the same as WP7 to WP8. I also see lines from Belfiore that say that the preview for Surface RT is coming next year and realize that he likely means what he says. It's a shocker here that the two of you keep arguing against his own words in favor of something vague.

 

[a5cent]

The quote from Belfiore certainly puts Microsoft on the hook to provide Windows 10 for ARM devices currently in the field. <snipped>
In the end, they still haven't learned to communicate clearly with a consistent message.

I agree with your point about communication.

I think tech review sites including WPC are somewhat failing us in this regard, whenever they include direct quotes without helping people figure out what is actually being said and what it means.

A lot of times I feel MS purposely veils their statements in ways that allows people to interpret it however they want.

Saying "all WP devices will be upgradable" is one example. Today we know there is a difference between a device being upgradable and it being upgraded. Very few understood that at the time however (I took a lot of flak for pointing it out back then).

I have no idea how updates will be handled for RT devices (one of the big mysteries), but I don't think Belfiore is putting MS on the hook for anything.

Belfiore said only: "Windows 10 preview for phones and ARM devices isn't due until well into 2015". That is not the same as saying W10 will run on current Surface and Surface 2 devices.

Even the way WPC reported it doesn't guarantee anything. Saying: "W10 will run on ARM devices like the Surface and Surface 2" could just be someone referring to a hypothetical Surface 3 or the Surface Mini, which no doubt would, in many ways, be like the Surface and Surface 2.

What I'm sure about, and have been for a very long time, is that Windows RT as a separate SKU is dead. What I'm unsure about is how or even if current Windows ARM tablets will be upgraded to the ARM version of Windows 10, but I'm also leaning in intellar's direction here.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Don't see what the fuss is about. This device will be almost 3 years old by the time Windows 10 comes out, and the hardware was old even when it was first released so its not that unreasonable if it doesn't get an upgrade to Windows 10 in 2015.

Exactly. Also, it's not like Windows 8.1 and Office 2013 will magically stop working on my new old Surface when Windows 10 comes out. It will continue to hum along just fine (albiet occasionally slow). Heck, imagine all the Android tablet owners out there who can never even consider the possibility of an upgrade. At least we're discussing it.

And I hope we get a faster, leaner Windows 10 that works better on the old Surface RT. That would be awesome. I remember how much faster Win 8.1 was on my old circa 2007 Toshiba laptop than XP or 7 before it. I think it can very easily happen.

 

[fatclue_98]

I've come to the realization that corporate mouthpieces talk for hours and say nothing. Until Windows 10 is actually released as a retail OS, we won't know jack. Even then, you can't be sure and there's precedent for it. All it takes is for a rash decision from the Board to either bless or curse a product line at the 11th hour. Palm Foleo: "nah forget it, it'll never sell." Gone before it was even released. HP TouchPad, Pre3 and Veer: "nah forget it, they'll never sell." TP was gone after just 1 month on the market and the Pre3 was cancelled after just 1 Day of release in Europe, never officially released in the US.

If Microsoft decides to axe RT, it will be a decision that can come at any time whether the update has been released or not and/or whether a Surface 3 RT has been released or not. Don't sweat it, there's nothing any of us can do about it. Really.

 

[bdball]

Well, accessories are getting harder and harder to find for the Surface 2. For example, you can only get the black touchpad on Microsoft's site now. Also on the Microsoft site, the Surface 2 64g is sold out. Looks like we are coming to the end of RT.

 

[a5cent]

Also on the Microsoft site, the Surface 2 64g is sold out. Looks like we are coming to the end of RT.

Various journalists that cover MS have started saying exactly that. MJF was the first (the last paragraph):

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-surface-pro-line-is-here-to-stay/

Since then MJF has picked up the same information from multiple other sources, and other MS watchers have also started confirming the same. I have long considered this a foregone conclusion. I don't think there is much doubt left.

 

[bdball]

And today the Microsoft Store online shows out of stock on the 32 g models. I definitely feel a bit screwed over by Microsoft. It has only been a little over a year since I purchased the Surface 2. It would be nice of them to at least say what the plans going forward might be, although I think the writing is on the wall. It amazes me how often Microsoft has screwed their user base the past few years, Zune, Windows 7 Phone users, and now Surface RT.

 

[dwarfsize]

I don't think Microsoft is dumb enough to discontinue support for their most prized possession - the surface - it's their only Microsoft brand hardware and it's gotta be treated nicely - Don't let your assumptions get away on you

 

[a5cent]

And today the Microsoft Store online shows out of stock on the 32 g models. I definitely feel a bit screwed over by Microsoft. It has only been a little over a year since I purchased the Surface 2. It would be nice of them to at least say what the plans going forward might be, although I think the writing is on the wall. It amazes me how often Microsoft has screwed their user base the past few years, Zune, Windows 7 Phone users, and now Surface RT.

Why do you think MS is screwing you over? That MS doesn't intend to build any more Surface RT tablets in the future doesn't change anything for you. Nothing. Furthermore, MS will still have a Windows OS running on ARM tablets, and that OS will run all the same immersive apps your Surface 2 runs now. Those tablets just won't be based on Windows RT.

The only question is what upgrade path with be available to Surface/2 owners. At this point we just don't know what to expect, but not knowing is not the same as being "screwed over".

 

[Philip Hamm]

And today the Microsoft Store online shows out of stock on the 32 g models. I definitely feel a bit screwed over by Microsoft. It has only been a little over a year since I purchased the Surface 2. It would be nice of them to at least say what the plans going forward might be, although I think the writing is on the wall. It amazes me how often Microsoft has screwed their user base the past few years, Zune, Windows 7 Phone users, and now Surface RT.

How is the user base screwed? My RT works great.

 

[bdball]

I'm glad your rt works great but don't expect developers to make many more decent apps for it. Don't expect to just replace your Touchpad or Typepad when it goes bad. Already they are down to just the black Touchpad. Maybe your the type that only does what a device comes loaded with but I like to use a device to it's fullest. Even if they bring Windows 10 to this device, that is a year away. By that time I will go on to something else that is not a Microsoft device. Microsoft is a cluster #@$% right now when you consider this along with the state of Windows Phone.

 

[a5cent]

I'm glad your rt works great but don't expect developers to make many more decent apps for it.

And herein leis your biggest misunderstanding. Developers will still be making apps for Windows RT! Or more precisely, they will be making Windows Store apps, which will run on all versions of Windows. Ignoring the scenario where Surface/2 devices get no update at all (which I consider unlikely), "all versions of Windows" includes whatever it is that ends up running on your Surface/2. You'd still be able to run any Windows Store app, just as it is today, with the added benefit of also being able to run any app that currently is exclusive to WP.

Hardware replacements are an entirely different issue. I don't think you need worry about that. At some point you might have to visit an MS store, or order a Touch/Typepad online, but that would have happened at some point anyway, whether MS decides to release W10 RT or not.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Why do you think MS is screwing you over? That MS doesn't intend to build any more Surface RT tablets in the future doesn't change anything for you. Nothing.

You are correct in the most literal of senses. However, MS discontinuing the production of Surface RT devices in that form-factor ensures that the number of units in consumers' hands has peaked and with that (not so great peak), hopes for 3rd party accessories have been dashed.

Zero-chance for custom blades... remember those things that Microsoft touted at the Surface 2 announcement? Zero-chance for companies like Adonit to produce an active bluetooth stylus for the Surface 2. No docks. The platform will never be fully exploited. What there is, is all there will be.

Furthermore, MS will still have a Windows OS running on ARM tablets, and that OS will run all the same immersive apps your Surface 2 runs now. Those tablets just won't be based on Windows RT.

The only question is what upgrade path with be available to Surface/2 owners. At this point we just don't know what to expect, but not knowing is not the same as being "screwed over".

It is still unclear and yet to be seen, how committed Microsoft is to Windows on ARM tablets. With the discontinued manufacturing of the Surface 2, and no Surface 3 coming, there is no upgrade path that will preserve the investment made in the few accessories that Surface RT/2 owner DID purchase... TypeCovers, TouchCovers, AC Adapters, etc.


There seems to be a cycle among Microsoft fans... (it's a general observation and I'm NOT claiming that you have engaged in this...)

Microsoft produces a new consumer product that has not gained momentum, the Microsoft faithful say, "give it time". When Microsoft discontinues that product, the response is then, "no problem, your device still works".

 

[a5cent]

You are correct in the most literal of senses. However, MS discontinuing the production of Surface RT devices in that form-factor ensures that the number of units in consumers' hands has peaked and with that (not so great peak), hopes for 3rd party accessories have been dashed.

Zero-chance for custom blades... remember those things that Microsoft touted at the Surface 2 announcement? Zero-chance for companies like Adonit to produce an active bluetooth stylus for the Surface 2. No docks. The platform will never be fully exploited. What there is, is all there will be.

But how can you really know this? Who is to say MS won't release a Surface 3 in the same form factor, that is compatible with all accessories and blades, just using an Intel Atom CPU and running W10 mobile? I'm not saying you are wrong, but how can you know you are right?

I don't think MS' recent shifts may be interpreted to mean that MS is giving up on the "tablet that doubles as a notebook" idea. In fact, I think MS merging features from RT into WP tells us the exact opposite. Really, I'm not engaging in the cycle you mentioned. I'm just trying not to jump to conclusions. It could be that you are right, but I think the sparse information we currently have paints a slightly different picture.

 

[T Moore]

The Op assumes without proof.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

But how can you really know this? Who is to say MS won't release a Surface 3 in the same form factor, that is compatible with all accessories and blades, just using an Intel Atom CPU and running W10 mobile? I'm not saying you are wrong, but how can you know you are right?

How can we really know this? An understanding of consumer electronics market, Microsoft's historic track record, and Microsoft's track record over the past 13 months specifically with regard to Windows RT-based Surface devices, all give us enough information to allow us to make a reasoned conclusion.

Over the past 13 months there have been ZERO blades produced (except for the promotional, highly-limited audio studio blade showcased at the Surface 2 announcement). You are free to continue to be open to the possibility of blades being offered in the future, but you do so in the absence of any evidence to support that belief. 13 months of silence in and of itself is evidence.

Again, in the most technically literate of senses, you are correct.... but with that approach, you would continue to invest in a product and believe it will continue until a formal press release is communicated, and if no formal announcement is made, one could stand on that fact and believe that those products are still viable.

I don't think MS' recent shifts may be interpreted to mean that MS is giving up on the "tablet that doubles as a notebook" idea. In fact, I think MS merging features from RT into WP tells us the exact opposite. Really, I'm not engaging in the cycle you mentioned. I'm just trying not to jump to conclusions. It could be that you are right, but I think the sparse information we currently have paints a slightly different picture.

I understand and I agree... I don't believe that you are engaging in that cycle. But there IS sufficient information to make a reasoned conclusion.

It was quite appropriate for BDBALL to mention the Zune. I was a big fan of it (and still am). But when the Zune HD was released, there were tell-tale signs that it was the last Zune to be produced... and within 2 years of announcement, it was officially discontinued. But well before that official announcement, support, accessories, firmware updates, apps, etc. had dramatically dropped and subsequently disappeared.

I used that time to warn fans of the Zune to make their voices known to Microsoft. (I was a moderator over at ZuneScene) Many dismissed that. I see history repeating itself with the Surface RT/2 (of which I'm also a fan... I've said it numerous times, it is the Zune tablet that some of us wanted back-in-the-day).

 

[a5cent]

Who is to say MS won't release a Surface 3 in the same form factor, that is compatible with all accessories and blades, just using an Intel Atom CPU and running W10 mobile? I'm not saying you are wrong, but how can you know you are right?

How can we really know this? An understanding of consumer electronics market, Microsoft's historic track record, and Microsoft's track record over the past 13 months specifically with regard to Windows RT-based Surface devices, all give us enough information to allow us to make a reasoned conclusion.
Over the past 13 months there have been ZERO blades produced (except for the promotional, highly-limited audio studio blade showcased at the Surface 2 announcement). You are free to continue to be open to the possibility of blades being offered in the future, but you do so in the absence of any evidence to support that belief. 13 months of silence in and of itself is evidence.

Well, TBH, blades were never going to take off without the Surface 2 selling by the millions. Blades are speciality/niche accessories. Such accessories only make sense when they are based on a mainstream product. That's why I wouldn't consider blades to be a reasonable measuring stick. As for everything else, you may be right. I just object to you saying "you know". Would you bet your car or your home on MS not releasing a Surface? If I had to guess, I'd say it's more likely that we will see a Surface 3. Merging RT into WP makes absolutely no sense if that isn't part of MS' plan.
If we're discussing only blades, then yes, I agree that is very unlikely, for the reasons mentioned. That's just one type of accessory however, and it's by far the one least likely to find customers.
Anyway, if it turns out that there will be no Surface 3, then I'll gladly (or sadly due to the lack of a Surface 3) buy you a beer if you're ever in central Europe :wink: