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  1. Romantical's Avatar
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    #76  
    I agree with your point that people don't really know how much the Nokia 920 really has to offer and Windows phone in general. I don't think it was wise for Nokia to sell their best phone through AT&T exclusively. I also think the weight of the phone is a little undesirable. For Windows 8 phone to have a real chance in the US they really need to crank out some new high quality lighter weight phones. I hear Nokia has one in the works and I hope it starts selling soon. Also, when if at all, will the Samsung Ativ S phone come to the US? The Odyssey offered at Verizon does not sound competitive to the iPhone but the Ativ S might be able to stop people in their tracks. It looks exactly like the Samsung Galaxy 3 but with a much better platform. I believe more high quality phones will catch more interest and people will start to take notice when they see other people using these phones just the way the iPhone caught on. After all in reality the Windows 8 phones are way more exciting and fun than the iPhone. I find the iPhone has become boring.
  2. vinnyvin's Avatar
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    #77  
    Light phones feel like a piece of **** to me, u drop and it'll snap. Heavy phones have quality in them. I don't like the iphone5 at all, can't even feel it in the pocket, I wanna know my phone is there, I also wanna use it as a weapon to protect myself. Jk
  3. Romantical's Avatar
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    #78  
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by paddylaz View Post
    No, this guy is completely right. Apple DID essentially invent the modern smartphone - at least in terms of one that was of a high enough quality for everyday people (not tech enthusiasts) to leave their 'dumb' phones. They were the ones to first 'crack' the perfect unity of phone, music player and internet device, the first to present it in a way that even the biggest technophobe could use, and the first to use what are now smartphone necessities e.g. corning gorilla glass (which Steve Jobs actually contacted Corning about - it had been mothballed).

    Smartphones have come a long way since then, I loved the 4s but found the 5 a bit stale & boring. However it kinda pisses me off this bizarre psychology that as soon as something becomes too popular (e,g. Apple) it automatically becomes achingly hip to NOT like it.

    They might be on the beginning of a downward slope now, but apple did change the tech world and I think respect should be given where it's due.
    Long before the iPhone was a twinkle in SJ's sack, Palm Treos had touchscreens, square icons and Kinoma music players. Blazer browsers sucked, but even the 650 had cut & paste, Exchange compatibility and Documents To Go. Smartphones were for professionals, not for watching YouTube. Many BlackBerries, Treos and iPaqs even came without cameras for the enterprise customer that forbid cameras in the workplace. I don't see any particular phone knocking the iPhone off its perch anytime soon, but let's give credit where credit is really due.
  5. LeLee092's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDedrick View Post
    I still don't get, in this day and age of information being readily available, why anyone still relies on store representatives/salespeople (no disrespect to the good ones). They come my way and I either walk the other way or shoot them down before they say a word.
    Unfortunately most of our growth are going to come from indecisive users or as lak611 mention "Average Joes". Representatives aren't there to sell you, store clerks know that you already know what you want and probably wont be able to change your mind, representative are there to sell to people who have no clue what they want, and those are the people every company is competing for, all of Apples, Google and Microsoft advertisement are aimed at these people.
    I was talking to a best buy mobile representative the other day and she told me that Bose representatives give a mini seminar twice a year to best buy employee just informing them of all the new things and cool features that they offer.
    When someone walks in to the store looking to buy headphones, which brand do you think she's going to recommend them? the one she knows barely anything about, or the one she had a whole seminar worth of knowledge?
  6. cgk
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    #81  
    Sort of - increasingly because of the money that companies like Samsung/Apple are throwing at Apple, the user is decided before he walks in the store. There are a few examples floating about here is one (which obviously you have to look at with a critical lens):

    Yet data from IDC suggests that HTC shipped 9.1 million smartphones worldwide between April to June, a 24% drop on the year.By contrast Samsung shipped 50.3 million handsets, a 173% rise.

    So what went wrong?

    "The market changed," says Jason Mackenzie, HTC's president of global sales and marketing."There's far fewer consumers who are going into the retail stores undecided about what they want to buy. Most of our research suggests about 70% of consumers are walking into the store already knowing what they want to buy... so we don't have the luxury in a significant percentage of times to be able to actually put the HTC One in the consumer's hands."
    If this analysis is correct it all comes down to marketing - a problem for HTC which admits its budget is about a sixth the size of its South Korean rival.
    BBC News - HTC aims to avoid One X mistakes with new mobiles
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  7. mafu6's Avatar
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    #82  
    This is what I think...

    The best form of advertising is by word of mouth, you can spend thousands of /$ on advertising but unless you have a positive recommendation from a friend your going to follow the masses. I'd say most of the people in the world that are interested in mobile phone tech already have a smartphone and are heavily invested in it and are happy with the way it works, capturing that % is probably ever going to happen unless something happens to a specific company, HP/Palm for example. People that were followers webOS (unless your die hard) had to switch to a new OS. From what I have read around the web Nokia and Android in general have the right idea which is developing world, aiming for low/mid range phones, doing this will help grow that OS significantly, but this wont happen over night! I am probably one of the many few people that have had most of the major OS and can't settle on one. I have gone from Android to BB to webOS to Android to WP to Android to BB to WP to Android and back to WP and my next purchase will probably be iOS.

    I currently have a Lumia 920 which is an amazing piece of Hardware the software in WP8 has massive potential and I am happy in where it is going al be it slowly.. I'd say 80% of my work colleges and friends have an iPhone of some sort and due to each individual person having their own needs and WP8 missing a couple of important apps to each person I cant recommend it to them. While they ALL say my Lumia 920 is "different" in a good way, most are heavily invested into the Apple ecosysytem.

    Microsoft in general knows they are in for a up hill battle in getting people to switch and not one single thing will help them break the trend its going to be a massive combination of accessories, apps, advertising and technological leaps.
  8. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by LeLee092 View Post
    Unfortunately most of our growth are going to come from indecisive users or as lak611 mention "Average Joes". Representatives aren't there to sell you, store clerks know that you already know what you want and probably wont be able to change your mind, representative are there to sell to people who have no clue what they want, and those are the people every company is competing for, all of Apples, Google and Microsoft advertisement are aimed at these people.
    I was talking to a best buy mobile representative the other day and she told me that Bose representatives give a mini seminar twice a year to best buy employee just informing them of all the new things and cool features that they offer.
    When someone walks in to the store looking to buy headphones, which brand do you think she's going to recommend them? the one she knows barely anything about, or the one she had a whole seminar worth of knowledge?
    I guess my point was (and sorry for not being clear) it makes no sense in blaming store clerks and their "recommendations" for WP low market share (which many do on here) when someone can easily hop on the Apple store's site, Samsung's site or just AT&T's and do their homework on phones. You don't gave to be a techie to that.
  9. crystal_planet's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    Sort of - increasingly because of the money that companies like Samsung/Apple are throwing at Apple, the user is decided before he walks in the store. There are a few examples floating about here is one (which obviously you have to look at with a critical lens):



    BBC News - HTC aims to avoid One X mistakes with new mobiles
    Actually, I was listening to piece on the radio the other day about how the sales industry has changed. A customer basically knows what he or she wants and has does the research before stepping onto the sales floor. I don't think anyone goes to a phone kiosk and tells the csr, "I want a smartphone, but I don't know which one." At worst, I can see a customer trying to decide between two choices and looking for some direction.
    My next phone...
  10. #85  
    It's too early to say about Windows phone and Nokia future.
    Apple introduced the concept of smartphone to world...it initiated a cultural/fashion revolution..
    I agree that windows phone is currently not to the mark...I am using a Lumia 920 myself..bought it because the OS is intuitive, the hardware is far superior to Samsung and feel that iOS is stagnant..
    It lacks certain features which a regular user requires, like notification center and good apps.
    But we have to accept that its a new platform...and we hope it will evolve and grow..
    What Nokia and MS require is not only great ad..but serious influx of all the major apps, period
    Apps bring customization and improve the user experience and without them no platform can succeed, no matter what ad you produce or how excellent your hardware is.
    Clear example is Surface RT...its a better tablet as far as hardware is concerned...MS office, USB port, kickstand, touch cover make it more practical than even iPad..
    But it flopped out of the box because of the lack of apps...People in Redmond and Finland know the problem...success of their devices will be determined by how quickly they resolve it..
  11. vlad0's Avatar
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by mafu6 View Post
    The best form of advertising is by word of mouth, you can spend thousands of /$ on advertising but unless you have a positive recommendation from a friend your going to follow the masses.
    Good point.. and I think that is something Microsoft has going for them. WP seems to be liked, so is Windows 8 .. I am yet to talk to a person who doesn't like their wp or their new W8 PC/Tablet

    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    Rolls eyes. You do know that Nokia and Palm essentially invented the smartphone? And then never bothered innovating or developing their respective products, right? And that Nokia released its first "smartphone" in 1996, right?
    Spot on.

    A lot of people miss that fact... and let's not forget Windows CE, that was a pretty good effort from Microsoft, the problem was that they couldn't get a hold of enough processing power for the system, and that is why Symbian/Nokia dominated. Well.. Nokia helped a lot with Symbian, I don't think Symbian would have been as big as it was without them, but you know... the same can be said now with Windows Phone 8.. where would Microsoft be without Nokia's push ?

    HTC simply doesn't have that kind of influence.. and Samsung is concentrated most on google's efforts so.. WP without Nokia will have far less numbers out there.

    Also, Nokia did develop their smartphones, just... very, very slowly... and poor management.

    They had an all touch smartphone project in 2003.. way before Apple was even thinking about making a phone, but some smarty decided to can the project.. well.. that was probably one of their biggest mistakes.

    This is the phone:

    http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_7700-570.php

    The UX was named Series 90, on top of Symbian. Also, note the type of SIM card it was using..
  12. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by crystal_planet View Post
    Actually, I was listening to piece on the radio the other day about how the sales industry has changed. A customer basically knows what he or she wants and has does the research before stepping onto the sales floor. I don't think anyone goes to a phone kiosk and tells the csr, "I want a smartphone, but I don't know which one." At worst, I can see a customer trying to decide between two choices and looking for some direction.
    I think it's quite the opposite. Most people do absolutely no research at all and have no clue as far as strengths and weaknesses of mobile platforms. One important factor to consider is that since Apple is the media darling, people walking into a store do wanna look at their products.
  13. crystal_planet's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blkacesvf41 View Post
    I think it's quite the opposite. Most people do absolutely no research at all and have no clue as far as strengths and weaknesses of mobile platforms. One important factor to consider is that since Apple is the media darling, people walking into a store do wanna look at their products.
    Well, "research" can be pretty loose. TV ads can constitute research to some.
    My next phone...
    Laura Knotek and LeLee092 like this.
  14. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
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    #89  
    Palm pre and web OS was liked. Not sure what being liked buys you. Homecoming queen maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by vlad0 View Post
    Good point.. and I think that is something Microsoft has going for them. WP seems to be liked, so is Windows 8 .. I am yet to talk to a person who doesn't like their wp or their new W8 PC/Tablet



    Spot on.

    A lot of people miss that fact... and let's not forget Windows CE, that was a pretty good effort from Microsoft, the problem was that they couldn't get a hold of enough processing power for the system, and that is why Symbian/Nokia dominated. Well.. Nokia helped a lot with Symbian, I don't think Symbian would have been as big as it was without them, but you know... the same can be said now with Windows Phone 8.. where would Microsoft be without Nokia's push ?

    HTC simply doesn't have that kind of influence.. and Samsung is concentrated most on google's efforts so.. WP without Nokia will have far less numbers out there.

    Also, Nokia did develop their smartphones, just... very, very slowly... and poor management.

    They had an all touch smartphone project in 2003.. way before Apple was even thinking about making a phone, but some smarty decided to can the project.. well.. that was probably one of their biggest mistakes.

    This is the phone:

    http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_7700-570.php

    The UX was named Series 90, on top of Symbian. Also, note the type of SIM card it was using..
    Goodbye Dooley! You will NOT be missed!:@
    Bring back the WeeeeeBeeeeaaarrrr
  15. cashcar1979's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casl4V View Post
    I have a Lumia 920 and my wife has a 900...the kids each have an iPhone 5 (thank goodness for corporate discounts). In every way shape and form I think the Nokia's are way better. However, the teens absolutely are spellbound by "iDevice X." I don't know how Microsoft and/or Nokia can cause a cultural change in one or two generation of phones/apps nor should they be expected to. Microsoft has the deep pockets for a prolonged fight and with Apple's stock finally starting to undergo the correction it needs, things may not be as bleak as one might think.
    Bingo..its going to take a few years longer to really gain strong share. Xbox is a solid case study. MSFT has the cash and the time for a long battle....
    LeLee092 likes this.
  16. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
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    #91  
    They have none of the advantages they had with the 360
    Quote Originally Posted by cashcar1979 View Post
    Bingo..its going to take a few years longer to really gain strong share. Xbox is a solid case study. MSFT has the cash and the time for a long battle....
    Goodbye Dooley! You will NOT be missed!:@
    Bring back the WeeeeeBeeeeaaarrrr
  17. vlad0's Avatar
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1jaxstate1 View Post
    Palm pre and web OS was liked. Not sure what being liked buys you. Homecoming queen maybe?
    word of mouth ..
  18. cgk
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashcar1979 View Post
    Bingo..its going to take a few years longer to really gain strong share. Xbox is a solid case study. MSFT has the cash and the time for a long battle....
    Xbox isn't a solid case study unless Nokia plan to be still selling the 920 in 2018?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
  19. phasar's Avatar
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    #94  
    Terrible marketing,a joke of a launch, and no apps= go buy an iPhone or Galaxy S3. L920 with Android would fly off the shelves!
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by phasar View Post
    L920 with Android would fly off the shelves!
    False! Nokia needs its marketing force (Symbian + MeeGo fanboys) to sell it! And, those fanboys will kill it the same way they killed the WP7 Lumias.
    TS;DR: Symbian has a massive installed base (no point fighting against that; I'm still too poor to replace my C5-00). So, with a dead Symbian, where will those users go? That said, a lot of those users are loyal fans and feel like Nokia screwed them over by switching to Windows Phone (and heartlessly murdering MeeGo + Meltemi in the process). So, they switched to Android.
    Now, tell me. Would that also happen if they switched to Android? Me thinks yes. With the mindset Symbian fanboys have, anything is inferior to Symbian, especially the OS that replaced it.
    This comes from a (slightly) level-headed Nokia fanboy.
  21. vlad0's Avatar
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    #96  
    ^ most of the ex-Symbian users will go down the android route, simply because its much closer to what they are used to...and the "philosophy" of the OS is closer to that of Symbian. Android is the new Symbian.

    I am not sure what made Nokia think that the conversion rate from Symbian to WP will be almost 1:1.. that is very unlikely to happen. Windows Phone is not a Symbian replacement, its an iOS replacement.. android is a Symbian replacement.
  22. mafu6's Avatar
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    #97  
    Has Nokia ever been big in the US?

    Another thought, Americans generally tend to buy a brand that's native to them, MP3 player = Apple, games console = Xbox, car = Ford ( a few examples although may it be poor ones but you get where I'm going) Now why would a phone be any different?
  23. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by mafu6 View Post
    Has Nokia ever been big in the US?

    Another thought, Americans generally tend to buy a brand that's native to them, MP3 player = Apple, games console = Xbox, car = Ford ( a few examples although may it be poor ones but you get where I'm going) Now why would a phone be any different?
    I'm pretty sure Nokia was once big here in America....and i don't know about that buying stuff native to the country thing. I think we buy stuff based on a multitude of factors. The first and most important believing its a product that we will get enjoyment and a few years out of (until the next great thing is released)
  24. mafu6's Avatar
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    #99  
    I don't think it's a conscious thing but a sub conscious thing. It makes sense that you would buy something native to your country.

    Everyone has their turn at the top of the pile and while it may seem Apples is drawing to a close companies like Nokia have to capitalize on this. It does make me laugh though that currently the 2 most successful smartphone companies are successful because they had devices that looked and felt like one another (patent wars).

    The way phone contracts generally work now are you get a phone and are stuck on the contract for 2 years. Living with something that you use on a daily basis for that amount of time can only make it more difficult to switch. Breaking a habit is hard to do but eventually someone will do it.
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by mafu6 View Post
    Has Nokia ever been big in the US?
    Nokia was a popular feature phone maker in US, but it was never a big smartphone maker in US.

    I found this report here from February 2007, which is prior to the introduction of iOS and Android. It states: "Canalys estimates that Linux devices represented more than 90% of the 1.5 million smart phones shipped by Motorola in Q4 2006. Meanwhile almost three-quarters of both Palm’s and RIM’s shipments are in North America. Overall market leader Nokia, however, still ships more than half of its smart phones in EMEA, with Asia-Pacific also accounting for over 40% and North America being its weakest area by far."
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