IPhone Beating Nokia 10-to-1 Leaves U.S. Effort in Doubt

Steve Ridges

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I think Nokia and MS need to follow Samsungs marketing theme with the next best thing is already here kind of idea. Show that iPhone is old and boring while WP is new and fresh. Show how some iPhone owner is searching for his proprietary cable to charge his phone while is friend drops his WP on a wireless charger. Show a couple of people texting at a ski resort with the iPhone user freezing their fingers while the 920 user texts with gloves etc. Make them funny and they will go viral.
 

paddylaz

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Haha, so a newcomer to the market is not selling as well as the most iconic smartphone company that essentially invented the modern smartphone. Right, who'd have thought that would happen!

No, this guy is completely right. Apple DID essentially invent the modern smartphone - at least in terms of one that was of a high enough quality for everyday people (not tech enthusiasts) to leave their 'dumb' phones. They were the ones to first 'crack' the perfect unity of phone, music player and internet device, the first to present it in a way that even the biggest technophobe could use, and the first to use what are now smartphone necessities e.g. corning gorilla glass (which Steve Jobs actually contacted Corning about - it had been mothballed).

Smartphones have come a long way since then, I loved the 4s but found the 5 a bit stale & boring. However it kinda pisses me off this bizarre psychology that as soon as something becomes too popular (e,g. Apple) it automatically becomes achingly hip to NOT like it.

They might be on the beginning of a downward slope now, but apple did change the tech world and I think respect should be given where it's due.
 

dkp23

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Anybody who expected any differently must be out of touch and delusional. iPhone and Android are established brands and OS, the wp8 is a relatively new OS if you count wp7 as well and being that both the iPhone and Android make up 80% of the market (quick guess), to expect wp8 to even come close to the other two platforms this quickly is absurd.

Whether people think wp8 and nokia phones is way better than iPhone/Android for whatever reason, it doesnt matter. It really comes down to this IMO, until WP8 can do whatever iPhone/Android does and more, expect this type of separation between wp8 and the top platforms to continue. When I say "whatever iPhone/Android does and more" i mean the phone needs to do all the basic things that the other platforms does and also have access to all the popular features.

For wp7 to come out with no screenshot, that was so bad. Even now with wp8, no call timers,no way to track in the OS your usage, can't videos from the email client, full pdf viewing features, instagram, official facebook OS that doesn't suck, just the basic things that everybody does these days, not on wp8 platform.

If you can't do what everybody else is doing, you are not going to get the grow fast enough to even come close to iPhones or Androids for that matter. So nobody should be surprised.

I own a 920 and the wp8 platform has a long way to go.
 

anon3230140

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Here in the UK.. I've only seen the Lumia twice that I can remember.

Once back in early 2012 with a guy I work with (he owned a Lumia 800) and he returned it for an Iphone 4. The next time was getting off the bus in Islington and that was a 900/920 ( not sure cos they all look the same) with a woman towards the end of last year.

I have nothing against or for Nokia, Iphone or Android (i'm 100% BlackBerry).. but Nokia really needs to step their game up.

All I see that are in any numbers that actually make it stick in your head are Iphones, BlackBerries and Android Phones.
 

Laura Knotek

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Hopefully.. I think part of the problem is Nokia never took off in the US, even in the dumbphone era. I've still got my old Nokia 8210 that cockroaches will be using to make calls after the nuclear apocalypse, but I only had a Nokia phone because I lived abroad for a long time. Nokia as a company has no mindshare in the US, unlike Europe where people remember the Nokia of old fondly.
I agree. Who remembers the E71x? I believe that is the last Nokia smartphone AT&T sold prior to the Lumia 900.

Does anyone remember the Nokia Astound from T-Mobile?
 

DaveGx

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First off, the iPhone will be extremely popular for a long time to come and nothing will change that. It all ready has a huge following and user base.

Apple really does it in a very smart way. While some of you claim having the option of choice of a range of options, the fact is, having just one main option has paid off for Apple. They can put all effort into one phone. Simple as that.

And they're development and marketing is brilliant. Look at all their different commercials where each one showcases a special feature. The recent Do not disturb and lowering background noise while on a call for example. How many features does WP8 or Nokia have that they could do the same type of marketing? Is there anything we have that others don't?

I've never owned an iPhone and don't want to go that route, but MS and Nokia have a long way to go. I know WP8 is new but its still a disappointment compared to what we see the competition like the iPhone has. ****, simple basic features were left out of WP8 which doesn't help things. I really wish MS would broaden their WP division and get more people working on fixing and improving the OS at a faster rate. They can't afford to hit the reset button again.

Then there are the apps, which we don't need to get into. We know the sad truth of that already.
 

Great deal

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Nokia released their last quarter results yesterday and show they are back in profit. They have some pretty great tech development in the pipeline and the way they have restructured gives them extra flexibility. Nokia is here to stay and rightly so, they know how to play the long game and the fight between them all is only a good thing. The only people I have no sympathy for are RIM - how can the previous owners be so damn pig headed and arrogant with the lack of R&D - to release devices 2 years behind the competition and an OS so tiresome, bulky and inefficient, those guys do not deserve a single dime/penny/euro/cent etc from anyone!

Anyway..long live the Lumia!
 

thecaringkind

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Not surprised at all. Apple has an almost other worldly brain lock in so many people its not funny...in any event Nokia & Microsoft MUST keep innovating & GET THE APPS UP TO SPEED. As long as they do that WP will be fine.
 

antsin3d

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Apple DID essentially invent the modern smartphone ...They were the ones to first 'crack' the perfect unity of phone, music player and internet device, the first to present it in a way that even the biggest technophobe could use, and the first to use what are now smartphone necessities....
Exactly, thanks for clarifying for me. The adjective 'modern' was in there intentionally to differentiate. I used a Palm and a Windows Mobile before iPhone existed, but they weren't what we think of as smartphones today. Market gains tend to be incremental unless it's a whole new market. Android grew slowly at first. iOS grew pretty fast because it essentially created a new market for itself. WP8 is entering that market, and can't be expected to jump from 1% share to 30% share so quickly. As for Nokia, I was largely referring to the U.S. there, so I wasn't being clear.
 

Laura Knotek

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Back around 2006-2009, the main way to buy a Nokia smartphone was directly from Nokia. The phones were sold unlocked at full retail. That doesn't really fit the way most people in US buy their phones, since most people in US buy a phone from a carrier with a contract.

As a result, Nokia really was a niche brand in US. When I had a Nokia device in 2007-2009, I didn't know anyone else who had one, and most of my family/friends had no idea what Nokia was. The only people who were familiar with Nokia were the parents of one friend; they knew about Nokia, since they travel to Europe regularly.
 

JonesCK1

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I don't know how anyone could've expected any different. I think what everyone expected is that the Nokia Lumia 920 would do great because of it's exceptional camera and other hardware advantages, and it has done very well. To compare the entire iPhone line to Nokia is stupid, how about comparing iPhone 5 32GB sales to Nokia Lumia 920 sales, I'd be curious to see those numbers on AT&T alone too.
 

DynaDog

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Here's a quote from the WSJ this morning, from a man who operates 600 Verizon stores:

He said that the Nokia Lumia 822, which runs Microsoft's smartphone operating system, garnered 17% of sales at his stores the weekend after Christmas, thanks in part to a price cut.

I was surprised at that percentage, it's over what I would expect. It indicates to me that WP8 is gaining a foothold and that things like price are still going to matter. There are tons of Apple people who will never change, which is fine. But there are a ton of people without a smartphone who will come into the market and see that, for instance, the 920 has more native capability than the iPhone at half the price. And that will make a difference to them. The relatively slow uptake of the iPhone 5 may be showing that the Apple RDF is losing some effectiveness. When I see an iPhone, the interface is leaden and boring. Probably strikes a lot of other people that way, too. Apple is not going away, but there's room for Nokia and Microsoft to grab a big chunk of the market.
 

uselessrobot

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Apple is about as entrenched a brand as you can possibly get. They've managed to maintain their position as a desirable brand thanks to industrial design that, while stale, still feels good. Many consumers default to the iPhone without even thinking. And there's a good reason for this. For the uninformed Apple devices just work. They don't do anything special over the competition, but everyone is familiar with the platform. Because of widespread adoption iPhones and iPads are highly supported. You know it's going to work with your car and a multitude of other peripherals specifically because all these companies invested the effort in ensuring compatibility.

So any decline Apple may experience is going to be gradual. And what will likely happen, like happened to Microsoft in the desktop space, is that no one will have any clear dominance. Apple had the advantage of being a first mover with a genuinely good phone in a young and evolving market space. Now that things have matured somewhat that advantage has evaporated.

The problem is that far too many people had unrealistic expectations, and there seems to be this persistent mindset that there can only be one dominant player. This despite the fact that in most industries that is not the case. So people are already billing Samsung as the next champion. Somehow, if you aren't selling on their level you've already failed. Nokia's prior dominance is totally irrelevant here. That was so far removed from the present era of mobile phones that Nokia doesn't even register for many Americans beyond a novel, where-are-they-now kind of mindset. Nokia maintained a strong presence overseas than they did in the US. So you have to count Nokia as a new player.

Apple outselling Nokia 10-to-1 is meaningless in this context. Nokia's 4th quarter was a good one. What really matters is how 2013 plays out.

I will point out that the American retail model sucks. Being a sales leader ensures prominent retail space. But what most people don't realize is that companies also have to pay for retail space, the better the spot the more expensive it is. And even then you're left to the whim of the individual store, whether or not employees care about doing their job properly.

To this day, the Targets I've been to have the Lumia 900 on display, not the 920. As of a month ago Best Buy had no Lumia 920s, but did have the 820 and the HTC 8X. AT&T stores are pathetic; huge, imposing Apple displays with the Lumia 920, in black, tucked away in a corner of the store. You have to search for it to realize they carry them at all. They should have a prominent display with every color of the phone sitting there side-by-side for everyone to ogle.

It's a crap deal Nokia is getting for it's AT&T exclusivity. They squander advertising dollars on meaningless celebrity TV spots. Just so that consumers can walk into stores, not see the Nokia's anywhere and instead be distracted by the gleaming iPhones.

That said, I don't think any rational thinking adult didn't think this was going to be an uphill battle for Nokia. So far things are looking encouraging.
 

tekhna

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I don't know how anyone could've expected any different. I think what everyone expected is that the Nokia Lumia 920 would do great because of it's exceptional camera and other hardware advantages, and it has done very well. To compare the entire iPhone line to Nokia is stupid, how about comparing iPhone 5 32GB sales to Nokia Lumia 920 sales, I'd be curious to see those numbers on AT&T alone too.

But lots of people here expected different. There was much talk of how Windows 8/Windows RT/Windows Phone 8 would form a trifecta that would radically change the fortunes of Windows Phone, but so far that simply hasn't happened. Windows RT has fizzled, Windows 8 isn't going anywhere, but it hasn't boosted Windows Phone sales, and Microsoft seems to have screwed the pooch on marketing Windows Phone. I don't think anyone expected WP to overthrow iOS or Android, but getting pummeled during a holiday season isn't exactly a good sign.
 

paddylaz

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The most wonderful thing I think about windows phone 8 is that it doesn't try to copy iOS. It does its OWN thing. I'v always believed that Android is a poor man's iOS and a complete (but inferior) copy. WP7/8 was the first to show something genuinely new and I fell in love with its fluidity.

If anyone has the time and inclination, I would recommend watching the original 2007 iPhone presentation by Steve Jobs. The most amazing thing about it is the way it reminds you of the many things that iOS pioneered that you would never believe they did because they seem so standard now (e.g. scrolling, pinch to zoom, sms conversations, gyro image rotation etc etc). You can tell by the crowd's applause whenever he introduced something brand new because it genuinely is the first time the assembled journalists had seen them. It really is this kind of thing that reminds me why I love tech, and why I love innovation. And I don't say this as a '******' (god i hate that word) but just a lover of the new:

[HD] Steve Jobs - 2007 iPhone Presentation ( Part 1 of 2 ) - YouTube
 

TonePhone

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rofl @ apple inventing the smartphone

Nokia needs to get it's act together and get instagram on board if they hope to touch android or IOS, people won't just abandon major social networks because they love live tiles
 

Laura Knotek

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I will point out that the American retail model sucks. Being a sales leader ensures prominent retail space. But what most people don't realize is that companies also have to pay for retail space, the better the spot the more expensive it is. And even then you're left to the whim of the individual store, whether or not employees care about doing their job properly.
That is absolutely true. It applies to all products in retail stores.

That is the reason why Coca-Cola or Pepsi get that prominent eye-level spot in Walmart, Target, or your local grocery store, and other brands are on a bottom shelf.
 

inteller

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Samsung commercials are working because, in addition to the smug condescending angle they use at snubbing iPhone, they actually show features in use. In fact I don't think there is one commercial that DOESN'T show nfc transfer. Microsoft gives us second rate celeb cooking and sitting on their couch. The differences are beyond disturbing.
 

ragingklu

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I'm interested in how Nokia is doing compared to where their target is and where they need to be. Right now that has zero to do with the iPhone or how many units Nokia has sold relative to Apple this year.

Samsung commercials are working because, in addition to the smug condescending angle they use at snubbing iPhone, they actually show features in use. In fact I don't think there is one commercial that DOESN'T show nfc transfer. Microsoft gives us second rate celeb cooking and sitting on their couch. The differences are beyond disturbing.

Exactly. Scam Newton. Will Arnett (although those are somewhat chuckle-worthy). Neither of those really gets into anything the phone does other than the generic "it's better for this or that or the other thing". Show me! Tell me why!
 

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