05-20-2017 08:50 PM
87 ... 234
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  1. clintroymkt's Avatar
    With the new Windows 10 S out, will Microsoft actually beat Chromebooks? I mean, I understand how system apps can keep it more secure and increasing battery life. The limitations of Edge and Bing and the possible block on Chrome and other browsers could prove cumbersome to a lot of users.
    Personally I love Edge and don't mind Bing but does Microsoft really need this drastic measure?
    I totally agree with you. I want Microsoft to succeed as well but does anyone remember the earlier windows phone days where microsoft basically sort of blocked browsers like firefox , opera etc on its platform? That i believe contributed to windows phone's app gap and lets face it , even then most people prefered to continue with their browser of choice on mobile because ios, android , even symbian allowed a certain degree of that .The lack of chrome and being stuck to bing could be a huge blow against Windows 10 S , Microsoft has to either improve Edge in a crazy fast way (Which seems unlikely due to its upgrade strategy) , or at least find ways to encourage companies like Opera or Mozilla to get their browsers on windows 10 S , and eventually (no matter how much they hate it) Chrome as well.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-19-2017 07:09 AM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    im sorry, but the length of my post may have made it confusing. my mistake. what i meant was that in its current state, with windows 10 pro, windows 10 can do alot more than chrome os by a wide margin. my concern was that with windows 10s, by limiting things to what's found on the windows store, windows 10s may lose that competitive advantage against chrome os. for example, i do alot of video and sound editing. right now, windows (ie., my surface pro 4)is great because alot of the programs and apps i use are professional grade or near-professional grade standalone tools that developers create for windows made available from the respective developer sites, but not through the windows store. on chrome os, maybe those tools approaching professional grade aren't there, but there are at least alot of editing apps i can use for very rudimentary work available, especially now that the Playstore is merging with the Chrome webstore. Albeit definitely not as high quality as the tools i use currently on windows, they at least allow someone to get feel for what it might be like. if i look purely at the windows store, however, (and not at what's available directly from developers) there is a significantly smaller selection of editing tools even for rudimentary work. this is just one example.
    my point is that for windows 10s - specifically - to be competitive, ms needs to ensure it stays on its game to ensure some of those great current standalone products are made available through the windows store, even if they are "light" versions.
    i get that windows 10s is geared towards students, but with so much of education these days relying on "getting the hands dirty" - i think it's important that ms works towards getting a large and diverse selection of apps on the windows store so that there are more possibilities for at least getting a feel for what students might need to do after graduation. by allowing the full selection of android apps to run on chrome os, i feel google put itself in a good position, now more than ever, of being adopted by educators. cost of chromebooks being cheap is a major factor, but i don't think we should dismiss selection as being a factor as well. if windows 10s works towards strengthening the selection of what's available on the windows store - what with ms promising cheaper windows 10s machines in the future - there is a very real chance windows 10s succeeds in competing with chrome os. if not, people will be inclined to just unlock the pro version, leaving the potential of windows 10s as a platform unfulfilled.
    just my opinion anyways ^^
    Yeah the UWP is so young (2 1/2 years), and the centennial bridge (think its only a year old), that we are only seeing the start of power software and play anywhere games in the windows store. Think MS is doing pretty much everything it can to get developers over (xamarin 2, windows s, windows on arm later for the ios apps, islandwood, centennial), as well as writing some apps itself.

    There ain't much in the way of professional creative software yet, coding software, or engineering software (although there is some), for the university end. There is of course, laypeople versions of most stuff like art programs, music programs, which of reasonably high standard (but still sparse on professional grade stuff). But there isn't a lot of stuff like this yet:

    Magix Movie Edit Pro Plus

    And just as importantly the stand out feature for kids - games, there is only about a dozen of AAA games like this:

    Rise of the Tomb Raider

    (Although fortunately big title game dev companies have a fair number of mobile grade games too as full UWP)

    It's all just so early for UWP. I happen to agree, not so much for chromeOS specifically (which isn't that popular, globally - for some reason both google and MS obsess about America, and often deliver features or advertising just to them), but in general that it is this type of software, this "power" stuff that sets Windows apart, and could even be the key to its success on its smartphone platform eventually.

    If UWP can florish, both from the islandwood end, and the centennial end, all moving to true UWAs, the whole hardware ecosystem becomes robust from one end to the other.

    Desktop apps get real coin from its users. People don't expect everything to be free, or 3 bucks, if its good, people will pay. And because of this, and more powerful hardware, and bigger screens, software developed in Windows is leagues ahead quality wise.

    Everyday people might not use this that much these days, but there is always a use for power, whether its machine learning computation, or VR - and users if given the option, even if they don't use it, would often prefer to have it.

    People get very little use out of 4k, but its all the rage. They have no need for above 13MP but they love it. They don't need 6gb on a phone but they love it. They want MOAR even if its functionally completely useless to them. Even often, when they can't afford the functionally useless features.

    That's the consumer mindset. And that is where Windows, across all platforms might have the edge one day, if for no other reason than iOS and Android users don't fork over the coins.

    I'd love to see the windows store in a years time, have 50+ AAA xbox and other win32 game ports. I'd love to see windows on arm, bring all those mobility and social apps (not snapchat its probably going to die, lol). I'd like to see a good quarter of those centennials at least make their way over to full UWP and run power PC software across devices.

    Imagine adobe apps on a phone for example, a little illustrator design in the doctors office, or some beefy full non-freemium games whilst on the go.

    All that is kind of dependant on the sales of Windows 10 hardware releases. Windows s, Windows on arm tablets, notebooks and servers, mixed reality headsets, and Project scorpio (which I suspect might just be a modified PC, to unify PC and xbox even more). If even one of those can be a decent success, or all a little bit, we'll see some action in the store.

    Maybe UWP's 3rd and 4th years will be their rise. I suspect well see some good action anyway.

    I think the real trump card might be VR for windows. You can't run decent VR from a phone, or via android or ios.

    Those companies no doubt will produce very competitive AI which will probably eventually max out server capacity lol, and apple some AR. Both googles and apples AI in the end, may be hard to compete with. Let's hope MS can employ third parties to even that playing field.

    But windows/xbox being the superior gaming platform, and the market dominant "static power hardware" has its advantage. A real advantage. The dream of that totally lifelike VR - its not happening on all in ones, or on phones. It will require VERY high end static boxes.

    Just like no-one wants to stream 720p theses days, no one is going to want the inferior basement quality VR in the end either. If MS can _just_ manage to be a success in the VR war, UWP apps will flourish long term.

    I kind of hope though, MS, apple and google all stay around, or some other set of competitors. If we ever get reduced to one tech company, we are all screwed. companies like apple treat their consumers bad enough as it is. Giving people total power is never good.
    05-19-2017 07:11 AM
  3. clintroymkt's Avatar
    Microsoft is just going to have to remove the edge html requirements. That may seem crazy and unlikely but remember how that caused problems for windows phone as well due to microsoft requiring browsers to use code similar to internet explorer?
    05-19-2017 07:13 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    Microsoft is just going to have to remove the edge html requirements. That may seem crazy and unlikely but remember how that caused problems for windows phone as well due to microsoft requiring browsers to use code similar to internet explorer?
    There is Monument browser, UC browser, and a host of lesser known ones. I bet opera and firefox will be on there soon enough (opera already has a placeholder installer). Edge is decent but if you don't like it, you've got choices. If chrome isn't in the store soon, it'll be the last to the party I think.
    05-19-2017 07:28 AM
  5. Rainar Angelo's Avatar
    Well, unlike Mobile which they eventually decided to let die (let's not deny that), they can't afford to do it to an OS they are releasing on their best bet - the Surface line. I can assure you the efforts going into Windows 10S will be much more than that of mobile.
    05-19-2017 08:44 AM
  6. Keeptechcoolandsimple's Avatar
    i guess, personally, that's the crux of what i find so intriguing about the surface laptop, or more specifically windows 10s.
    as someone who's confident in the tech he uses but doesn't consider himself a techie (as a matter of fact, i believe this is only the second time in my life i got so involved in a forum like this ^^), the comparison between windows and chromeOS, as i imagine a casual user might see it, boils down to this: for light web-based use and app-based media consumption, the web-centric chromebook is amazingly quick and responsive and (at least mine anyways) the platform of choice. for everything else beyond simple tasks, for productivity, or anything that you don't want to be web dependent, you can't beat a windows 10 pro machine (again, may be a personal preference).
    And here comes windows 10s with what i perceive as the promise of bridging the gap between where windows 10 pro currently is and where chromeOS currently is: ie, a platform that can support the power tools necessary running on a quick resource-light os. and if ms can fulfill that promise through its development of the windows store, i presume the surface laptop may live up to it's surface branding: namely, a category-definer.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-19-2017 10:06 AM
  7. Chris Knopff's Avatar
    Doubt it currently.

    As time progresses though, with more content (hopefully) brought to the Windows Store, this may actually be a competitor. Though pricing will vary, much like with Chromebook options.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-19-2017 11:27 AM
  8. Ezhik's Avatar
    Well that's what it's aiming for, at least. I think it depends on how easy they are integrate and manage, and then how much they cost to maintain over time.
    05-19-2017 03:32 PM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well, unlike Mobile which they eventually decided to let die (let's not deny that), they can't afford to do it to an OS they are releasing on their best bet - the Surface line. I can assure you the efforts going into Windows 10S will be much more than that of mobile.
    MS just has bigger fish to fry. They are the kings of the desktop, and have a share of the console market - combined the biggest force in gaming. 60% marketshare of games.

    VR is the next big cash cow, the next entertainment paradigm. I don't think anyone really doubts that. That could put mobile giants on a backfoot - just like people don't want low res, blocky graphics in movies and games, they won't want inferior VR experiences in the long run. They want the platform that can eventually deliver something lifelike.

    VR is bad for mobile platforms and good for MSFT. They can't compete. Any more than a switch can compete with a tricked out gaming rig playing AAAs. Sure people may do it, but that ain't where the core of the money is.

    AR/VR and mixed reality should _absolutely_ be MSFTs focus, as well as unifying the console and PC. I am glad they see this, because this is a chance for the static machine to rise again.

    As should cultivating the UWP, across console, PC, mobile, mixed reality, everything, and trying to stay in the AI war, AND keeping their UI fresh. Smartphone is more or less last years battleground. Its a saturated market, that's about to decline.

    Mobile is literally the last thing they should massively invest in right now. Instead, they should keep it alive, in suspension, keep strategizing it, wait till folding tablets, AR tech or something else replaces the existing paradigm. Until it becomes a strong growth market again, its not worth a lot of effort for anyone but Samsung or apple anyway.

    It's simply having a sense of priorities.
    05-19-2017 08:48 PM
  10. ajcletus500's Avatar
    Im not saying that W10S is not going to beat Chromebooks, but MS needs to attract more app developers and that's a fact that cant be ignored
    05-20-2017 01:13 AM
  11. ajcletus500's Avatar
    MS just has bigger fish to fry. They are the kings of the desktop, and have a share of the console market - combined the biggest force in gaming. 60% marketshare of games.

    VR is the next big cash cow, the next entertainment paradigm. I don't think anyone really doubts that. That could put mobile giants on a backfoot - just like people don't want low res, blocky graphics in movies and games, they won't want inferior VR experiences in the long run. They want the platform that can eventually deliver something lifelike.

    VR is bad for mobile platforms and good for MSFT. They can't compete. Any more than a switch can compete with a tricked out gaming rig playing AAAs. Sure people may do it, but that ain't where the core of the money is.

    AR/VR and mixed reality should _absolutely_ be MSFTs focus, as well as unifying the console and PC. I am glad they see this, because this is a chance for the static machine to rise again.

    As should cultivating the UWP, across console, PC, mobile, mixed reality, everything, and trying to stay in the AI war, AND keeping their UI fresh. Smartphone is more or less last years battleground. Its a saturated market, that's about to decline.

    Mobile is literally the last thing they should massively invest in right now. Instead, they should keep it alive, in suspension, keep strategizing it, wait till folding tablets, AR tech or something else replaces the existing paradigm. Until it becomes a strong growth market again, its not worth a lot of effort for anyone but Samsung or apple anyway.

    It's simply having a sense of priorities.
    totally agree with you here
    05-20-2017 01:15 AM
  12. falcon304's Avatar
    It's a HUGE uphill battle. I saw a story about how Chromebooks are like 60% of computers in schools now. I hope that they do, and I think they can, but only time will tell.
    05-20-2017 08:50 PM
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