04-04-2017 11:44 PM
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  1. Amwaj Karoon's Avatar
    If the surface phone does eventually surface, would like it or one of its variants to sport a 5.0 or 5.2 inch screen for ease of use & portability as larger than that is likely to appeal to the mainstream phablet users and the elderly.

    A removal back like those on some of the latest Lumia phones would be great. Hope MS also comes up with a fix to the overheating issue currently experienced by windows phone users even from a few minutes of use as the much awaited surface phone sees the light of day……....
    03-06-2017 09:29 AM
  2. aximtreo's Avatar
    If the surface phone does eventually surface, would like it or one of its variants to sport a 5.0 or 5.2 inch screen for ease of use & portability as larger than that is likely to appeal to the mainstream phablet users and the elderly.

    A removal back like those on some of the latest Lumia phones would be great. Hope MS also comes up with a fix to the overheating issue currently experienced by windows phone users even from a few minutes of use as the much awaited surface phone sees the light of day……....

    If the intent of the "Surface Phone" is to appeal to the non consumer, it will have to be at least as large as the 950xl and maybe even larger than the HP X3. Take a look at the way the police officer used the X3 in a video posted here in the last day or so. I don't think 5" screen will cut it for the business persona.
    03-06-2017 12:06 PM
  3. aj173's Avatar
    1.) We're assuming that Surface Phone is a real thing, which we don't know yet. We've been speculating about this device for years now, and even if it does happen, it might still be years away. We have nothing besides fake news and rumors. The folks inside Microsoft probably don't even know yet if they'll ever release another phone. Windows 10 Mobile is still extremely rough, and it's well over a year since it's debut. I know that Windows 10 desktop is supposed to change all that, but you're insane if you think that Windows 10 Mobile won't make an appearance on this phone (if it happens).

    2.) There is no "overheating issue" with Lumia phones. The 810-based phones run hot. That's the reality of life when you take a given processor class and max out the rate at which it's run. The heat is being transferred from the processor, and the laws of thermodynamics dictate that it has to go somewhere. I think people incorrectly assumed that the cooling system in the 950 phones meant that they'd never feel any heat. In reality, the cooling system is designed to keep the processor cool enough to remain stable, not to ensure that you never feel heat.

    3.) Phablet users ARE the mainstream now. Even Apple had to give up their tiny screens and go bigger. I'm not sure that a device like this (rumored) Surface Phone makes sense on anything smaller than 6". What's the point of a full version of Windows if you can hardly even fit a few cells from an Excel spreadsheet on your screen? Sure, Continuum and docking, etc. I get it. But what about the other 98% of the time when you're using your phone? I'd like to see a 6.5"-ish Surface Phone. Basically the same size as a 1520 but with minimal bezel and without the capacitive buttons.
    03-07-2017 04:00 AM
  4. Nate W's Avatar
    Remember the Microsoft RM-1162 spotted last year...we can still be hopeful on that end but it may not be labeled or coined the "surface phone".
    03-13-2017 10:36 PM
  5. sd4f's Avatar
    Remember the Microsoft RM-1162 spotted last year...we can still be hopeful on that end but it may not be labeled or coined the "surface phone".
    I'm speculating, because I don't know any thing behind what's publicly available, but it really looks to me that the strategy has changed. I think that early last year, MS may have intended to release something, a 960 so to speak but when the abysmal usage rates started to make the news cycle, I believe that MS have decided to go in a different direction, and that basically has meant canceling any phones that were intended for release. It appears that MS is letting 3rd parties handle the hardware at this point in time.

    From what this website has generally divulged, it looks like yes there is work on a surface phone, but it's no where near ready.

    I just think that once certain things started to go from bad to worse, it became clear that the strategy shifted because they couldn't be bothered with constantly throwing money at something which wasn't working.

    Bottom line is, they're committed to the platform, until they're not. Last year they were saying that 2017 would be mobile focused. Towards the end of the year they started to change the spin on that. No big announcements at this stage so who knows what's going on.
    Nate W and aximtreo like this.
    03-13-2017 11:26 PM
  6. Nate W's Avatar
    ^ I agree ^
    The Windows 10 Mobile OS is coming up pretty quick. Reflecting back on little things that I use to wonder about and why they are not like the Android or iOS competitor are not there anymore. Granted it is still a work in progress, but in order to get the bread and butter of the mobile device where it needs, I believe you hit the nail on the head.

    If an OEM or ODM wants the OS on some hardware then it needs to be worth it. For our liking (microwave style), it is just not fast enough. If what you said is true then for HP, Alcatel, Vaio, and others to step out there is more challenging then just dipping into the Android pot. But less challenging then if Microsoft had released another device at the end of last year.
    03-14-2017 12:34 AM
  7. aj173's Avatar
    I agree that Microsoft's mobile OS has come a long way. However, they were way late to the game even with their first modern refresh (Windows Phone 7), and they've been a step behind the rest of the industry even during Windows Phone 8.x. And while Windows 10 Mobile has come a long way since it's disastrous public launch, that's a very low bar to get over. The W10M OS is still very rough compared to iOS and Android.

    Releasing another lackluster phone at the end of last year would not have made a material difference in the Windows Mobile world. At this point, there are so few of us still using the platform and very little reason for anybody else to switch to it.

    Nadella is correct; Microsoft can't take a "me too" approach to mobile. They need differentiating features to set themselves apart. The problem is that Microsoft failed to capitalize on the promising differentiating features it had. Given the success of the stylus experience on Surface, it failed to translate that stylus to phones in order to compete with other top-end phablets like Note. Lumia once had the best camera experience by far, but MS failed to capitalize on this one too, and now everybody else has caught up. And at the time of it's launch, the Lumia 1520 was a top-tier phablet when the phablet market was just taking off. Nokia/MS then proceeded to release a string of junky low-spec phones instead of continuing the momentum of FINALLY having a flagship-grade Windows Phone for the first time ever.

    I know that everybody's expecting the Surface Phone (if it ever happens) to turn this around and be a new differentiator or "category defining" device. However, PC sales are in the toilet. If Apple is famous for selling us crap that we didn't know we needed, Microsoft is going to miniaturize a device that we already know we don't want. I'd buy a Surface Phone, as would most of us here, but we are an extremist fringe movement in tech. We alone aren't going to turn around Microsoft's mobile ambitions. We're basically 20% of the 0.75% of the global smartphone market. 0.15%ers, if you will.
    Nate W and aximtreo like this.
    03-15-2017 09:40 AM
  8. Nate W's Avatar
    Well I agree and disagree in some ways. Whether they were late to the game or not the OS where it is now and heading I feel is basically a foundation for future proofing. Most of the newer standards or protocols are there already, and are either waiting refinement, the api to use them, or the hw to enable them. It does not stop there of course. Microsoft has a lot to offer outside the camera experience or other nifty features. For them refining the experience on those where they have control is in their best interests. Maybe in the W7 W8 days the baby was thrown out with the bath water, and maybe it had to be given where tech and sw was at the time for Microsoft, but the train has not stopped even after all those years.

    Microsoft is not blind to things seen or known about tech being used today and where its heading. That's the problem with the consumer race, trying to beat your foe to the next finish line and if they get caught up in it then it just takes away from the effort where they are already keeping momentum in.
    TgeekB likes this.
    03-15-2017 11:04 AM
  9. aj173's Avatar
    I'm not sure that Microsoft has momentum anywhere in mobile anymore. They seemed to acknowledge this on the day when they ported the Office suite to iOS/Android and made those apps better than their Windows Phone counterparts.

    I'm only on Windows 10 Mobile because I don't want to get sucked into the iOS/Android accretion sphere, and because I dislike Apple and Google for various reasons. When the only reason your users are sticking with your inferior product is because they dislike your competitors, you have a serious problem. Microsoft was so slow to react to the changing mobile computing landscape under Ballmer that I'm not sure they can ever catch up in the mobile arena.

    I'd really like to see Windows Phones be a viable third option. I desperately, desperately want a third-party competitor to iOS and Android. But I don't see how they can reach app parity with iOS/Android unless Microsoft throws many, many billions of dollars into acquisitions and subsidies to close the app gap. And even then, simply plugging the app gap alone won't convince anybody else to switch to W10M when the camera app is virtually unusable and Edge still sucks badly, among other huge problems. I'm not sure how a Surface Phone addresses these fundamental problems. It's like everybody is hoping that they'll magically solve themselves if Surface Phone appears.
    Nate W and aximtreo like this.
    03-15-2017 08:24 PM
  10. Nate W's Avatar
    Some of what you stated may be last resort options I suppose. I think Android and iOS will eat themselves alive sooner or later...I really do. I mean I love some of their gear, cool stuff and all. What happened to Samsung last year was a shame. For them if they rebound this year, they could give Apple a run for their money. Again that is the things you get when taking the ride in the consumer space. Though enterprise users are consumers too. Anyone offering a service period tailor to consumers whether HW SW or both. I hear ya, and sometimes pick up the ads on older Samsung or iOS devices to contemplate. But honestly everything I need is right here on the device I own, which fortunately I am good with.
    03-15-2017 09:04 PM
  11. aj173's Avatar
    Yeah, thankfully there is at least one developer making a very good version of anything I truly need or want, so I stick around. I'm one of 10 people in the world who doesn't care about Snapchat, and I'm lucky enough that my two banks are the only US banks who make a Windows Phone app, so that helps. You usually have to pay for decent WP apps since there isn't enough ad traffic to make a free version worthwhile, but I don't mind tossing a developer a few bucks for a good product. Even on iOS and Android, I usually ended up buying full versions anyway.

    I'm just a little disappointed that W10M is still not as polished as I would have hoped a year later. I'm hoping that the next major update brings some of this polish, but I said that about the last one, so eh.

    Ironically, companies have begun making higher-end Windows Phones at precisely the time when everybody stopped caring about the platform. This OEM enthusiasm might have been more helpful five years ago when they launched WP7 by dumping load after load of $30 disposable phones onto the market. Better late than never, I guess. I sold my 950XL and am still holding onto my 1520, so I'm hoping something decent gets released by somebody by year's end. Even if it's not the mythical Surface Phone.
    03-16-2017 12:10 PM
  12. Nate W's Avatar
    Ironically, companies have begun making higher-end Windows Phones at precisely the time when everybody stopped caring about the platform. This OEM enthusiasm might have been more helpful five years ago when they launched WP7 by dumping load after load of $30 disposable phones onto the market. Better late than never, I guess. I sold my 950XL and am still holding onto my 1520, so I'm hoping something decent gets released by somebody by year's end. Even if it's not the mythical Surface Phone.
    Yes. I kind of wondered if that was part of or one of the reasons Microsoft swallowed the Lumia name from Nokia. W10M was not around at those times of course and Nokia was the only device maker really dedicated into WP8 years. Even if an ODM/OEM put out a phone during that reign nobody would have really looked at it. It would have had to either top or go above the latest Lumia. Even now, when a device comes out, it is automatically compared to a Lumia.
    03-16-2017 06:59 PM
  13. sd4f's Avatar
    I'm not sure that Microsoft has momentum anywhere in mobile anymore...
    I think you're right, I don't think it will just improve. All these platforms rely on, to quote Ballmer 'Developers, developers, developers...". The smartphone was one instance that MS just couldn't dominate. Strategically, Nadella is correct, they need some whole new category basically to interrupt the market. Thing is, I can't see what that could possibly be. While I hope I'm not speaking from hindsight, but I'm sure everyone could see that as hardware progressed, the smartphone was only a matter of time. MS current strategy appears to be a strong exercise in software, after all, doing what they appear to be attempting could have been done from the onset of the smartphone, but I'm not too sure the consumer market will be too phased by it.

    I think in some respects, the kick in the backside MS has gotten over the last few years is what the company really needed. They were growing stale and resting on their laurels while they made plenty of money by being the market leader. But it's also concerning because now, when they've got better products, it seems like as if they're descending in relevance as the market moves away from them.
    03-16-2017 11:02 PM
  14. PerfectReign's Avatar
    I'm only on Windows 10 Mobile because I don't want to get sucked into the iOS/Android accretion sphere, and because I dislike Apple and Google for various reasons. When the only reason your users are sticking with your inferior product is because they dislike your competitors, you have a serious problem. .
    I told my son's, who use Ios and Android, that the main reason I use Windows mobile is that it sucks less than Ios or Android.


    Sent from mTalk
    raycpl likes this.
    03-16-2017 11:46 PM
  15. aj173's Avatar
    I can't even say that Windows phones suck less anymore. There once was a time when even though Windows Phones had everything else going against them, the bright side was that they were responsive, reliable, offered good battery life, and were stable as a rock. Sadly, those attributes no longer apply under W10M. It's a 50/50 coin toss on whether my phone is going to suddenly restart every time I try to take a picture, and my 950XL's performance was unimpressive compared to similarly spec'ed Android phones. The camera was it's saving grace.......on the occasions where the camera app actually saved the photos I took. Or didn't force the phone to reboot.
    03-17-2017 01:57 AM
  16. anthonyng's Avatar
    @aj173 950xl battery hobbled by known bad chip though, most seem happy with battery on idol4s and x3
    03-17-2017 02:09 AM
  17. Nate W's Avatar
    I can't even say that Windows phones suck less anymore. There once was a time when even though Windows Phones had everything else going against them, the bright side was that they were responsive, reliable, offered good battery life, and were stable as a rock. Sadly, those attributes no longer apply under W10M. It's a 50/50 coin toss on whether my phone is going to suddenly restart every time I try to take a picture, and my 950XL's performance was unimpressive compared to similarly spec'ed Android phones. The camera was it's saving grace.......on the occasions where the camera app actually saved the photos I took. Or didn't force the phone to reboot.
    It is bound to happen. To blaze through Two whole revision releases of a mobile OS in less than 2 years is fast...not to mention having to hard reset your phone every time you can't take the spontaneous reboots anymore. Funny now how it is reasons we learn to love our windows mobile phones. Some of that is behind us, but if we look at it from hind sight, everyone here, forums, online, all of us made Windows 10 Mobile be able to progress better and better with each build update. Even though it may not seem like much, it really is. Just think about the pool of Android or iOS users those teams have to pull from for bug checks and insight...then look how many Microsoft has, and they are still trucking along.
    03-17-2017 03:35 AM
  18. vijay gurusamy's Avatar
    I would buy it if it has the latest processor a 20MP camera with xenon flash
    03-17-2017 08:00 AM
  19. aj173's Avatar
    I agree that the Snapdragon 810 surely didn't help the battery issues on the 950XL. However, even compared to 8.1 on my Lumia 1520, W10M runs down the battery significantly faster. I'm not saying that battery life is terrible on the newer phones you mention. But we used to brag that our devices can be faster and have better battery life than Android while running on less powerful hardware, and that's no longer true. After being spoiled with the smoothness of 8.x on previous Lumias, it made me a little sad that W10M was so slow and unstable on a much more powerful phone. The subpar performance of the 950XL actually played heavily in my decision to sell the phone and wait for the next wave of releases.

    We're now at the point where we too need to engage in the specification arms race just to attain acceptable levels of performance. Which is exactly what we used to make fun of Galaxy owners for.
    Awhispersecho likes this.
    03-17-2017 09:50 AM
  20. aj173's Avatar
    It is bound to happen. To blaze through Two whole revision releases of a mobile OS in less than 2 years is fast...not to mention having to hard reset your phone every time you can't take the spontaneous reboots anymore. Funny now how it is reasons we learn to love our windows mobile phones. Some of that is behind us, but if we look at it from hind sight, everyone here, forums, online, all of us made Windows 10 Mobile be able to progress better and better with each build update. Even though it may not seem like much, it really is. Just think about the pool of Android or iOS users those teams have to pull from for bug checks and insight...then look how many Microsoft has, and they are still trucking along.
    It might be more accurate to say that they're limping along. If the folks at Microsoft actually used the mobile OS that they created, I bet many of these bugs would have been resolved long ago. They spent *two* whole insider releases grappling with how the Ninja Cat emoji was displayed. I'm sure that somewhere, somebody on Earth cared about that. Meanwhile, in the real world, Edge is still a trainwreck. I just wish that these people would use W10M as their primary phone for a few months so they could orient themselves to the reality of the OS.
    Nate W, kevin_tenza and aximtreo like this.
    03-17-2017 09:57 AM
  21. Nate W's Avatar
    It might be more accurate to say that they're limping along. If the folks at Microsoft actually used the mobile OS that they created, I bet many of these bugs would have been resolved long ago. They spent *two* whole insider releases grappling with how the Ninja Cat emoji was displayed. I'm sure that somewhere, somebody on Earth cared about that. Meanwhile, in the real world, Edge is still a trainwreck. I just wish that these people would use W10M as their primary phone for a few months so they could orient themselves to the reality of the OS.
    There's truth in that...
    aximtreo likes this.
    03-17-2017 10:14 AM
  22. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    It's a 50/50 coin toss on whether my phone is going to suddenly restart every time I try to take a picture
    Ok, so is that literally true?

    Every time you attempt to take a photo it's a 50% chance your phone will reboot itself???
    03-18-2017 10:42 AM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    It might be more accurate to say that they're limping along. If the folks at Microsoft actually used the mobile OS that they created, I bet many of these bugs would have been resolved long ago. They spent *two* whole insider releases grappling with how the Ninja Cat emoji was displayed. I'm sure that somewhere, somebody on Earth cared about that. Meanwhile, in the real world, Edge is still a trainwreck. I just wish that these people would use W10M as their primary phone for a few months so they could orient themselves to the reality of the OS.
    How is Edge a trainwreck? What problems are you having?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Last edited by TgeekB; 03-18-2017 at 02:20 PM.
    aximtreo likes this.
    03-18-2017 01:51 PM
  24. anthonyng's Avatar
    Edge on 950xl has been awesome. I've had tabs open forever and didn't interfere with anything for quite some time until the lastest update cleared out all my tabs.

    Tabs we're all there on mobile and also in continuum!
    Nate W and aximtreo like this.
    03-18-2017 02:05 PM
  25. aj173's Avatar
    1.) Yes, it is literally true. I'm not speaking figuratively or exaggerating for effect. Roughly half of the time that I try to take a picture, my phone restarts. If we want to be a smartass and get hyper literal about it, it might be 45.23/54.77 instead of an even 50/50. But you get the point.

    2.) Edge is still a horrible mess. Tabs frequently go unresponsive, copying and pasting often does not work, trying to fill out a form with a radio button is frustrating when you accidentally highlight and can't get the selection to disappear in order to click on the button, filling out forms or text fields doesn't work reliably, I sometimes have to click back and forth between the current tab and the tab view just to get the current tab to respond to clicks, .pdfs reload and cause me to lose my place every time I switch away for a nanosecond to use Excel or Wolfram, text from simple frames often spills over into the rest of the page, drop-down boxes don't work well, etc. And that's not even an exhaustive list.

    I get it, I get it. It's still a work in progress. But the reason I'm frustrated is because I feel like MS is spending an inordinate amount of time working on trivial stuff when they don't have the fundamentals squared away. The browser is the biggest one. If they're not going to even try to fix it, then at least give us back the option to use IE. IE wasn't perfect either, but it worked very well for me most of the time, and its foibles were fewer and less annoying than Edge's. I understand why it made sense to build a whole new browser for PC, but I don't understand why they restarted from scratch on mobile.
    Elky64 likes this.
    03-19-2017 01:39 AM
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