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  1. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Honestabebread View Post
    I think most of the WP8 users are turning into Android-like spec freaks. My Trophy runs better than my LG Intuition and my wife's Galaxy S3. Windows Phone is as great as it is because it runs flawlessly on midrange hardware. The Lumia 822 is a fantastic phone, the build quality is cheap but it is a GREAT phone. The 8X is a sexy beast and in my opinion is the perfect phone. The Odyssey will probably be awesome. Even if it has a 1GHz dual core, a 480x800 screen, it'll still run better than any Android in its class.

    Also, Verizon is making a requirement of 4 reps per store MINIMUM to carry a Windows Phone 8 device. We're having launch parties the day it comes out in stores. They're giving reps t-shirts and stuff to promote it. Just like we get shirts when Droid phones launch. So yeah. Verizon is supporting it. Seems like a company that grew 1.8 million subscribers in one quarter would be the source of less ridicule.
    I know, right? AT&T picked up just 678,000 subscribers in that quarter - Verizon grew at almost three times AT&T's rate. Their LTE advertising is extremely effective and they have about 35% of their users moved over to LTE at this point. Verizon has had three quarters of huge growth.

    I think that's why AT&T has kicked in the subsidies. Verizon is running ahead on LTE deployment because of their huge customer gains. This gives them more capital to deploy. AT&T is having to eat into their margins to attract customers by offering phones for prices that are too low. If a million people pick up the Lumia 920 for $99 when AT&T could and should have been charging $199, that is $100 million in lost revenue and probably about $40 million that will not go to their network.

    AT&T played this same game with the iPhone, though the didn't directly subsidize it, they gave Apple profit shares that basically amounted to it. Their network fell behind and struggled. And when the time came for LTE deployment, guess who had the capital to do it?

    If not for Verizon pushing, I doubt AT&T would have even rolled out LTE yet. But Verizon didn't subsidize phones heavily, invested in spectrum, and built a vast and robust network. That's why they keep adding subscribers. AT&T had 1.3 million in the second quarter and then plummeted to 678,000. They only added 726,000 subscribers in Q1.

    So AT&T added 2.704 million subscribers in the first three quarters. VZW added 734,000 (Q1 is always the slowest - Jan to March), 1.2 million, and 1.8 million - so 3.734 million. Verizon has added over a million more subscribers than AT&T this year. AT&T's third quarter was terrible and likely the reason why they decided to do the 920 subsidy. But they're robbing Peter to pay Paul. This type of move may set back their LTE roll out.

    And Verizon continues to plug on with their "mid-range" phones and superior network. And their very generous discounts, I might add (I get 20% off due to my employer).

    Verizon knows what they're doing.
  2. Joelist's Avatar
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    #27  
    And lest we forget, Verizon not only has far and away the largest and best performing network but their future plans are also much more advanced than the other carriers - think "VoLTE".

    As to the Odyssey, its design language lines up with the design language of the entire Verizon smartphone line - businesslike and somewhat subdued. The 8X is really the only "candyphone" they are offering. All of their Windows Phones offer top end specs. The Snapdragon S4 is the gold standard of phone/tablet CPUs, the displays are pretty good even at worst and the cameras on both the 920 and 8X are best of breed.
  3. jaethos's Avatar
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    #28  
    So is this it from Samsung for Verizon this year? I haven't yet pre-ordered an 8X yet specifically due to wanting to know more about this phone before I did so. It's obvious from the relative dimensions that this is a smaller screened phone and while anything over 4" is good enough for me, I've yet to see a 4" screen with anything greater than a 480x800 screen res. An HD screen is a requirement for me, so anything without is instantly disqualified. I really want expandable storage, but the screen is more important, so I'm just wondering if I should just go ahead and order the 8X.

    It's a shame, if Verizon had gotten the ATIV S I would have chosen it over the others.
  4. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaethos View Post
    So is this it from Samsung for Verizon this year? I haven't yet pre-ordered an 8X yet specifically due to wanting to know more about this phone before I did so. It's obvious from the relative dimensions that this is a smaller screened phone and while anything over 4" is good enough for me, I've yet to see a 4" screen with anything greater than a 480x800 screen res. An HD screen is a requirement for me, so anything without is instantly disqualified. I really want expandable storage, but the screen is more important, so I'm just wondering if I should just go ahead and order the 8X.

    It's a shame, if Verizon had gotten the ATIV S I would have chosen it over the others.
    Umm. iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 all have 4 inch screens (or smaller) and all have better than 480x800. Now, Samsung have yet to do so, but I'm sure they can produce them.

    It's possible that it could just be a version of the GS3 mini. But the specs make me think it may be something to directly take on the iPhone - coupled with talk that the internals are supposed to match up with the ATIV S and the other WP8 devices.
  5. derek533's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post

    Wall of Text Snip*
    Quote Originally Posted by Honestabebread View Post
    I think most of the WP8 users are turning into Android-like spec freaks. My Trophy runs better than my LG Intuition and my wife's Galaxy S3. Windows Phone is as great as it is because it runs flawlessly on midrange hardware. The Lumia 822 is a fantastic phone, the build quality is cheap but it is a GREAT phone. The 8X is a sexy beast and in my opinion is the perfect phone. The Odyssey will probably be awesome. Even if it has a 1GHz dual core, a 480x800 screen, it'll still run better than any Android in its class.

    Also, Verizon is making a requirement of 4 reps per store MINIMUM to carry a Windows Phone 8 device. We're having launch parties the day it comes out in stores. They're giving reps t-shirts and stuff to promote it. Just like we get shirts when Droid phones launch. So yeah. Verizon is supporting it. Seems like a company that grew 1.8 million subscribers in one quarter would be the source of less ridicule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post

    Another Wall of Text Snip*
    I think alot of us on Verizon gave them a free pass last generation because we all knew WP7 was a gamble with it being a new, and un-proven OS. The Trophy no doubt, has been a great phone for me and I honestly have zero complaints about it. Would I have liked a bigger screen and better camera, sure. But for all intents and purposes, it has served me well.

    Listen guys, I really do appreciate all the inside information, so to speak, that you have provided and your contributions to this forum. You guys are why all of us like coming here because there's good, reliable information in a courteous environment. Please don't take anything I said against Verizon personally as I've had nothing but a good experience with them.

    Here's my main point, we were advised through the various blogs that Verizon's brass was extremely committed to WP8. You guys have even mentioned so right in this forum. If you truly step back and remove your loyalty to Verizon, and just take an overall glance at the market, it's easy to see why a lot of us are saying that it doesn't seem this way.

    Let me explain what I mean by this: At launch, there are presently three phones and variations of devices that are getting released: Lumia 920, 820/822/810, and the HTC 8X. All of these devices are available on ATT. Only two of these devices are available on Verizon and the two that are, one is $100 more than it's main competitor on ATT, and the 822 is an uglier version of the 820 on ATT (IMO). Between the two carriers, there seems to be no distinction with the 8X other than the fact that Verizon's appears to have wireless charging and ATT offers an 8gb version.

    So looking as a whole, at the entire WP8 market at this state of the game which is barely in it's infant stages, it does appear as though ATT is the one carrier who is truly committed to offering the most choices with WP8 presently. Also, having the "flagship" or "hero" device standing alone with no other carrier offering it whether fair or not, does show a huge commitment on ATT's part to making sure that WP8 succeeds as ATT no doubt has a **** load of money on the line.

    I also think the sales figures will tell the story about the mainstream buyer. What sold the most last quarter? iPhone, GSIII? Both of those are top-tier aka "flagship" phones so the idea that the mainstream market mainly buys mid-tier phones doesn't pass the smell test.

    These are all my opinions though and you know what they say...Take care guys and thanks again for the all the info you have provided.
  6. Ruined's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Honestabebread View Post
    I think most of the WP8 users are turning into Android-like spec freaks. My Trophy runs better than my LG Intuition and my wife's Galaxy S3. Windows Phone is as great as it is because it runs flawlessly on midrange hardware
    While it is true WP8 does not require huge resources, and also true that the launch phones will run smoothly and most apps well, the major problem with Verizon's lineup is that for a power user none of the phones offer the balance of hardware specs and capacity to endure a 2-year contract with a next-gen phone.

    I'll use your Trophy as an example. I have one, too. It is 16GB like the HTC 8X. It is also near full. So if I bought an 8X either I have to delete half the apps I bought (undesirable) or install no new apps (equally undesirable). Therefore the 8X does not work as a solution for me (and many others). If HTC had added a MicroSD slot, it might be a different story.

    Well, the Nokia 822 has a MicroSD slot you say? But it also has a low screen resolution. Why should I settle on low resolution for the next two years when obviously there is better available?

    That is where the ATIV S came in - it filled the gap of nice big screen + large storage capacity: a flagship device that can last for the next 2 years. It was assumed this would be launching on Verizon's service because the Apple/Samsung lawsuit essentially outed it ahead of time. It looked nice too.

    However, it appears that Verizon instead plans to take the midrange Samsung 'Marco' design from that lawsuit and released that instead with name 'Odyssey.' 4" screen with terrible design modifications. Hence, the massive disappointment.

    There is a chance, I guess, that Verizon could release both phones, but only one was presented at the WP8 launch... In my honest opinion, Verizon does not currently appear to offer a flagship windows phone 8 device. HTC 8X is close, but the limited space and some of its other missing features cause it to miss that mark by a tad.
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  7. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by derek533 View Post
    Here's my main point, we were advised through the various blogs that Verizon's brass was extremely committed to WP8. You guys have even mentioned so right in this forum. If you truly step back and remove your loyalty to Verizon, and just take an overall glance at the market, it's easy to see why a lot of us are saying that it doesn't seem this way.

    Let me explain what I mean by this: At launch, there are presently three phones and variations of devices that are getting released: Lumia 920, 820/822/810, and the HTC 8X. All of these devices are available on ATT. Only two of these devices are available on Verizon and the two that are, one is $100 more than it's main competitor on ATT, and the 822 is an uglier version of the 820 on ATT (IMO). Between the two carriers, there seems to be no distinction with the 8X other than the fact that Verizon's appears to have wireless charging and ATT offers an 8gb version.
    Which one is $100 more?

    The HTC 8X with 16GB is $199.99 on contract with AT&T. You can go to their website and check it out.

    The 822 is $50 more than the 820, but it has 16GB instead of 8GB and Gorilla Glass 2 instead of not having it. I think the phone looks just fine. Is the 8X nicer looking? Sure. Is the 822 an eye sore? Not to me. I like its looks, especially in gray.

    And, as you said, the Verizon version has wireless charging for the $199.99. The AT&T does not. Maybe they aren't committed enough to WP8?

    So far we have yet to see any US carrier announce for the ATIV S. We have VZW announcing the ATIV Odyssey, but we don't know the specs yet.

    How is Verizon not committed? They have the HTC 8X for the same exact price as the same 16GB model through AT&T. AT&T does have a $99 model, but it is the 8GB model that has ZERO capability to expand. I think we really need to question AT&T on this one. Why even bother offering the HTC 8X at all when you have the 920 at $99 with more storage and wireless charging? Who in their right mind would buy an 8GB HTC 8X when they can get a 920 for the same price?

    So looking as a whole, at the entire WP8 market at this state of the game which is barely in it's infant stages, it does appear as though ATT is the one carrier who is truly committed to offering the most choices with WP8 presently. Also, having the "flagship" or "hero" device standing alone with no other carrier offering it whether fair or not, does show a huge commitment on ATT's part to making sure that WP8 succeeds as ATT no doubt has a **** load of money on the line.
    AT&T is willing to subsidize the 920 at staggering levels. Their customer pick up rate last quarter was about 1/3 of Verizon's. Verizon's LTE advertising and expansion of their network is causing people to leave them. They are guaranteeing sales for Nokia and giving them a lot of money in the process.

    I said it somewhere else, but AT&T is spending money that should go to their network and instead using it to subsidize phones to try to attract customers because they have fallen behind Verizon AGAIN. Verizon spends about $6 Billion a year on network infrastructure. AT&T had to drop $20 Billion last year just to cover for all their dropped calls and data drops - and they still haven't caught up. It is common on AT&T to have LTE drop all the way down to EDGE. They still have spotty 3G service, especially in larger cities where the HSPA technology doesn't work as well.

    So AT&T goes back to what they have done in the past to try to bail themselves out - subsidize cutting edge phones to lure a few suckers in who will pine for Verizon while they're under contract.

    AT&T's only advantage is the 920. That's it. The HTC 8X is the SAME PRICE. The 822 is more expensive than the 820, but it also has two important upgrades in the Gorilla Glass and the 8GB internal storage upgrade.

    If the 920 were selling for $199-249, the price it should be at, then no one would be complaining.

    I also think the sales figures will tell the story about the mainstream buyer. What sold the most last quarter? iPhone, GSIII? Both of those are top-tier aka "flagship" phones so the idea that the mainstream market mainly buys mid-tier phones doesn't pass the smell test.
    But the iPhone only has a screen the size of the Samsung ATIV Odyssey. The iPhone must therefore not be a flagship phone. This is my point AGAIN. What are the Odyssey specs? If it is Snapdragon dual core 1.5GHZ, Adreno 225, 8MP camera, microSD expansion, 16 or 32GB internal storage, Gorilla Glass 2, NFC then how is it not flagship? What, just the resolution? What if it uses one of Samsung's new HD AMOLED displays? Even if it is "only" 800x480 on a 4" screen, I still don't see how this is a mid-level phone. Same with the 822. It has the SAME SPECs as the 920 minus the 768p display and the 8.7MP camera with OIS. Yes, you need a backplate for wireless charging. But it also has expandable storage. And if it weren't for the heavy subsidy on the 920, no one would talk about Verizon's weak offerings.

    Verizon only offered TWO Droid handsets when they released it and they did commit strongly to it. They will expand their offerings as well.

    I also would not be surprised if they have fewer problems than what AT&T has had. They may have already contacted MS and HTC about the 8X reboot issues. Unlike AT&T, Verizon cares about handsets actually being functional. AT&T cares more about making a splash. I know they have spent much more time testing than the other carriers. But that's Verizon - they always test much more than anyone else.

    The fact that Verizon is not waiting 8 months to commit and they have three plus phones in the pipeline tells you something. That is a lot for Verizon when they roll out a platform because they like to make sure the platform works first. Let AT&T's customers suffer from the new tech. Verizon prefers customers have a smoother experience.
  8. Ruined's Avatar
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    #33  
    Verizon is doing much better than last generation, but still appears as if they will fail to carry a true flagship phone this year like the Nokia 920 or the ATIV S - assuming the leak is all VZN will be getting from Samsung.

    That is the crux of the problem, not much can be done to explain it away as each of the devices Verizon offers up has a 'fatal flaw' so to say to a power user.
  9. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
    Well, the Nokia 822 has a MicroSD slot you say? But it also has a low screen resolution. Why should I settle on low resolution for the next two years when obviously there is better available?
    I wonder if you could tell the difference between the screens if you didn't know which was which.

    The AMOLED display on the 820 I saw at the AT&T store looked better than both the 920's display and the 8X's despite "low resolution". With nearly 8 pixels per millimeter, there is only so much difference the eye can truly see. And that "low res" display has greater pixel density than you are likely seeing on your laptop or desktop screen.

    This drive for super HD on tiny screens is just ludicrous. I can see the difference jumping from 480 to 1080 on a larger screen, but on a small screen going from 480 to 768 is insignificant. It's like going from 720 to 1080 on a 20 inch display - not too drastic of a difference. And the contrast on the AMOLED display is more compelling to me than the washed out LCDs on the 8X and 920.

    What's next? My 5" display can do Cinema 4K? I'd rather save the battery power to actually do things on my phone.

    The Lumia 822 not only can have expanded storage, it also gets better battery life than the 8X or the Lumia 920. Over 1 hour of extra talk time. 10 hours of music playback time more than the 920. 160 hours of more standby time.

    Looks like that low res display that most people will think looks just fine helps to make the phone last longer. And the battery can be easily replaced during the length of the contract since its not unibody, so as it loses its ability to hold a charge you can easily do something about it.

    Take a look at the 820's screen next to the 920. You'll be amazed at how unspectacular the 1280x768 display is in comparison. It's nice - don't get me wrong, but it's not an astounding difference maker.
  10. Gaichuke's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post
    Take a look at the 820's screen next to the 920. You'll be amazed at how unspectacular the 1280x768 display is in comparison. It's nice - don't get me wrong, but it's not an astounding difference maker.
    I did this kind of comparison recently. When in the homescreen, the difference surprisingly wasn't very noticeable. I guess that's due to the graphic design in Metro UI.

    But then I opened the browser...
  11. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaichuke View Post
    I did this kind of comparison recently. When in the homescreen, the difference surprisingly wasn't very noticeable. I guess that's due to the graphic design in Metro UI.

    But then I opened the browser...
    Did the same. And still not noticeable. The text is softer around the edges, but that's about it. The contrast on the 820 is noticeably superior.

    One of the things on the 920 is that it doesn't seem to display whites very well - they seem like light shades of gray.
  12. pavlovscow's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post
    Did the same. And still not noticeable. The text is softer around the edges, but that's about it. The contrast on the 820 is noticeably superior.

    One of the things on the 920 is that it doesn't seem to display whites very well - they seem like light shades of gray.
    Mac, I also am glad you provide feedback on theses boards, but my experience is very much that of Derek533.

    Verizon has the best network. We get it. They put their money into the network rather than subsidize for the hottest phones. Okay, that's why we stay. That doesn't change the fact that of the phones "exclusive" to Verizon, the vast majority of early adopters and reviewers find them underwhelming.

    Visually, the 822 and the Leaked Odyssey photo are taking design cues from 2 to 3 years ago: chunky and rounded edges. These aren't phones I want to show off at my work. I work in mobile game development. I will be mocked for supporting WP phones. The only phone my company doesn't buy for me is Windows Phone. I get them all. Is it too much to ask for modern designs? Verizon chose these "unique" designs to differentiate themselves. They don't compete with the thin, light, devices from iOS and Android. That is Verizon's decision. I flat out don't understand, if they are asking for a unique design, why it can't at least be something that is more progressive. 9/10 people would not point at the Odyssey or 822 when asked to show you a sexy device.

    Yes, screen resolution does matter. Yes I can tell the difference on a smaller device than my TV. As a game developer we want the game to look as good as possible. I worry about WP growth as a gaming platform, if the majority of the people on the nation's second largest network don't perceive windows phones as classy high end devices. Nobody bought games for blackberry either. So it could be that Verizon is trying to support that market. They know their business but I would be disappointed if that becomes the case. Why else put solid chips in there.

    I'm rambling, so here is my point. Verizon's selection of Windows phones seems targeted at budget minded people looking for a reliable device to make calls and stay connected in Today's modern age. They are not targeted at early adopters.

    As an early adopter I don't feel that we get to experience the best devices on the best network. I want my phone to both be a status symbol and be relevant in 2 years. The HTC 8X is the closest but its the only one that isn't unique and doesn't feel like a choice of equal measure to the others. It also doesn't compete well against the iPhone 5 or Samsung g3. A Nokia 920 or a Samsung ATIV S could have changed that.

    Since Verizon didn't, we Windows Phone fans and early adopters have a justifiable complaint. We don't have Windows Phone options that compete against the best on the market, and Verizon's decisions regarding phone selection seem to cater to casual phone users rather than the vocal phone enthusiast that frequents windows phone rumor forums. Unfortunately I got my hopes up again, that Verizon would lead the way. Instead, they seem to still be playing it conservative. Maybe if the Droid DNA doesn't sell well, Verizon can negotiate a contract with Samsung or Nokia for their top tier phones.
  13. Honestabebread's Avatar
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    #38  
    This is somewhat unrelated but Verizon's 4G roll out completion has been bumped up to June 2013. So 100% 3G/4G overlap in 7 more months. So exciting.
  14. Joelist's Avatar
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    #39  
    I think we have a bad case of excessive speculation in this forum about the Odyssey.

    Look at the picture and look at the Ativ S - the display is virtually the same size (the difference is in height and only about half the size of a small WP8 Live Tile). It's probably a 4.5 inch display and probably using the same screen technology as the Ativ S (so expect 720p).

    Inside it will have the S4 Krait as all the new WP8 handsets so far are shipping with Krait. And Krait is the gold standard in mobile CPUs at present. Looks to have expandable memory and the other tricks too. So it is definitely a top tier phone as is the 8X.

    If you want to call out anyone in all this as foolish it should be Nokia. They should not have taken the money from AT&T for the exclusive on the 920 - getting a foothold in Verizon is far more important than some immediate cash from AT&T. HTC understands reality - that is why they added wireless charging at Verizon's behest to the 8X. Verizon is the key player in the whole WP8 drama in the US - they are far and away the largest and most robust network and have the biggest subscriber base. If WP8 gets a successful foothold in Verizon the growth will come.
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  15. pavlovscow's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joelist View Post
    I think we have a bad case of excessive speculation in this forum about the Odyssey.

    Look at the picture and look at the Ativ S - the display is virtually the same size (the difference is in height and only about half the size of a small WP8 Live Tile). It's probably a 4.5 inch display and probably using the same screen technology as the Ativ S (so expect 720p).

    Inside it will have the S4 Krait as all the new WP8 handsets so far are shipping with Krait. And Krait is the gold standard in mobile CPUs at present. Looks to have expandable memory and the other tricks too. So it is definitely a top tier phone as is the 8X.

    If you want to call out anyone in all this as foolish it should be Nokia. They should not have taken the money from AT&T for the exclusive on the 920 - getting a foothold in Verizon is far more important than some immediate cash from AT&T. HTC understands reality - that is why they added wireless charging at Verizon's behest to the 8X. Verizon is the key player in the whole WP8 drama in the US - they are far and away the largest and most robust network and have the biggest subscriber base. If WP8 gets a successful foothold in Verizon the growth will come.
    Definitely not happy with Nokia's decision, but someone at Verizon picks the phone designs. And the nicest way to put it is 'conservative'.
  16. power5's Avatar
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    #41  


    vs



    Only thing that looks similar to me is the back vent style. And when compared to the ativ-s it does appear to be much thicker, or smaller.
  17. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlovscow View Post
    I'm rambling, so here is my point. Verizon's selection of Windows phones seems targeted at budget minded people looking for a reliable device to make calls and stay connected in Today's modern age. They are not targeted at early adopters.

    As an early adopter I don't feel that we get to experience the best devices on the best network. I want my phone to both be a status symbol and be relevant in 2 years. The HTC 8X is the closest but its the only one that isn't unique and doesn't feel like a choice of equal measure to the others. It also doesn't compete well against the iPhone 5 or Samsung g3. A Nokia 920 or a Samsung ATIV S could have changed that.

    Since Verizon didn't, we Windows Phone fans and early adopters have a justifiable complaint. We don't have Windows Phone options that compete against the best on the market, and Verizon's decisions regarding phone selection seem to cater to casual phone users rather than the vocal phone enthusiast that frequents windows phone rumor forums. Unfortunately I got my hopes up again, that Verizon would lead the way. Instead, they seem to still be playing it conservative. Maybe if the Droid DNA doesn't sell well, Verizon can negotiate a contract with Samsung or Nokia for their top tier phones.
    As I have stated before, look to Nokia and AT&T if you want to point the finger at why the 920 is not on Verizon. They will not sacrifice their network spending to subsidize a phone. It's that simple.

    If Nokia had allowed AT&T to subsidize the phone AND let Verizon price it out at $199.99 then you would have it. But AT&T paid big money up front to prevent this for one reason - people will pay the extra $100 on the phone just because its Verizon.

    Verizon does mostly cater to casual phone users. They have said they want WP8 to be mass market and they are not aiming for slow growth in the platform. Most phone users don't care about resolution. They care about being able to surf the web, text, maybe Skype, and have a nice experience.

    Why do you think HTC is reportedly going to start backing off high end devices? The Galaxy S3 sells because Samsung has done a great job marketing it and making it an "IT" device. The iPhone is the same kind of thing, but most people still don't care about the resolution. And while you may be able to tell the difference, most people can't or they don't care.

    I can tell the difference between Blu-Ray and DVD. I also see the difference between 1080p streaming or downloaded and BD. Blu-Ray blows it all away, but the future will be streaming or downloads. And, truth is, most people are still quite happy with DVD, even upscaled on the screen.

    The early adopters are a small slice of the pie and Verizon has never put much emphasis on them. They waited until Android 2.0 to do anything there and they had no interest in the iPhone before it was proven.

    If that's a problem then I urge those people that crave the 920 to go to AT&T. That's what AT&T hopes because they are propping up their poor growth numbers and have been seeing a downward trend.

    Verizon's philosophy is all about the network. They'd love to have the 920, but they will not pay out the $450 per phone subsidy that AT&T is paying.
  18. stmav's Avatar
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    #43  
    I think some are taking the displeasure with the Verizon phone choices too personally. While you've been a great ambassador for Verizon, I think you're tied to them more than you let on, and have been generous with information leading up to the launch. The reaction to people wanting better phones is very defensive. Even taking shots at the 920 seemed uncalled for.

    We get it, they are all about the network and you will like it. They are a lot like GE in their regards to business strategy and self worth. But people do have a right to be unhappy.

    Now you say Verizon has never put stock in early adopters. And that would describe the people on this forum complaining for the most part. Again easy to see why they are not satisfied.

    As I said, I believe you are a valuable resource to this forum. But you appear to be taking these criticisms too personally and lashing back.
  19. power5's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post
    I can tell the difference between Blu-Ray and DVD. I also see the difference between 1080p streaming or downloaded and BD. Blu-Ray blows it all away, but the future will be streaming or downloads. And, truth is, most people are still quite happy with DVD, even upscaled on the screen.
    I dont think most people understand there is a difference between 1080p and BR. They just think BR is 1080p and so is my cable movie channel. Yes both are displayed at 1080p but that means very little in video quality. BR looks REAL, 1080p just looks better than 480p. It looks better because they did not scale up the 480p pixels to fill the screen, they did actually start with 1080p pixels but then they compress it to be able to stream via cable. Hence the reason a BR video is like 50gb yet most 1080p streams are like 5gb. Same movie, same resolution. Whats missing??? Lots...
  20. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by stmav View Post
    I think some are taking the displeasure with the Verizon phone choices too personally. While you've been a great ambassador for Verizon, I think you're tied to them more than you let on, and have been generous with information leading up to the launch. The reaction to people wanting better phones is very defensive. Even taking shots at the 920 seemed uncalled for.

    We get it, they are all about the network and you will like it. They are a lot like GE in their regards to business strategy and self worth. But people do have a right to be unhappy.

    Now you say Verizon has never put stock in early adopters. And that would describe the people on this forum complaining for the most part. Again easy to see why they are not satisfied.

    As I said, I believe you are a valuable resource to this forum. But you appear to be taking these criticisms too personally and lashing back.
    I don't take it personally at all and have said repeatedly that the 920 is a GREAT phone. I understand why people like it.

    A point I have made is that the 822/820/810's only real gripe that some have is the display. If it were a 1280x720 display then it'd get a lot of love, apart from people not being thrilled with the design on the 822.

    My point has been that people like to point the finger at Verizon instead of pointing it squarely at Nokia.

    And I also told people here when the info about the exclusivity came out that if they wanted the 920 then they were best to go to AT&T. It is up to each user if they wish to leave Verizon for the 920 or if they are okay with either waiting or getting a different device.

    I have also said that we should not just discount the Odyssey based on some leaked images. We have seen smaller displays with high pixel counts and Samsung might surprise here. I have heard that the Odyssey is Verizon's own version of the ATIV S. I had not heard anything about form factor. But the screen dimensions indicate it is either 800x480 or 1280x768. If it is a 4" or so display that is 1280x768 with 2GB RAM, Snapdragon, microSD expansion, etc then it would be considered a premium device, not a midrange device. I have not been told what the specs will be because the device is mysterious even inside Verizon. They have not been shown it or briefed it on the corporate side. Usually when this happens it is because the device is premium and Verizon and the manufacturer are hiding features. But Verizon wants to take a direct shot at the iPhone, so this could be a similar sized form factor shot.

    It is true, Verizon does not put a ton of stock in early adoption with phones. I understand that people here are. Most of us are WP7 users, so we've been with Windows Phone for awhile and we want to see it grow.

    But do not confuse the lack of early adopter support with animosity or lack of care towards WP8. Verizon has taken a mass market approach to this.

    I get that the tech guys will all love the higher ppi displays, but mass market will not care. I am also someone who does not care. But a month ago I also thought about switching to AT&T if only they had the 920. Then I liked the 8X (and not because it was VZW, but because of the audio end of things). But the 820 actually appealed to me most initially with two negatives - lack of Gorilla Glass and only 8GB. The 822 fixes that. I'm sure I will prefer the 820's design better, but I prefer the 16GB and GG even more. And I don't have to change carriers. I also prefer the 820's size to the 920's, which is too big for my tastes (and not for everyone else's, I know).

    I understand people being disappointed that they don't have the 920, but it is not because of Verizon that this is the case. Nokia is the ultimate reason. They get their guaranteed sales, but the 920 will not be as much of a hit Stateside as it could have been if they had given it to Verizon, T-Mobile, and AT&T.

    But watch the sales. The 810/820/822 will outsell the 920 and the 820 will likely outsell the 920 for AT&T too. The HTC will sell terribly on AT&T at $99 for only 8GB and $199 for 16GB. I've been hearing that HTC is not too happy and may withhold future product from AT&T due to them subsidizing the 920 and basically killing the 8X on AT&T.

    Even so, Verizon having three WP8 devices before Christmas is not them turning their back on the platform. Quite the opposite.

    And for all those who want the higher res screen, there are probably even more that prefer the expandable storage. That's where I am on that. Those that want the high end display and OIS, you have an option. The 920 is a great phone, but Verizon not having it is not the end of the world for Verizon or for WP8 on Verizon. I find the "Verizon hates WP8 because they don't carry the 920" stuff to be silly.
  21. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by power5 View Post
    I dont think most people understand there is a difference between 1080p and BR. They just think BR is 1080p and so is my cable movie channel. Yes both are displayed at 1080p but that means very little in video quality. BR looks REAL, 1080p just looks better than 480p. It looks better because they did not scale up the 480p pixels to fill the screen, they did actually start with 1080p pixels but then they compress it to be able to stream via cable. Hence the reason a BR video is like 50gb yet most 1080p streams are like 5gb. Same movie, same resolution. Whats missing??? Lots...
    It's a huge difference, even compared to HD television transmission. My FiOS can't match my BD. You see more artifacts in the more heavily compressed stuff. It still looks good, but it can't compete to how pristine a well mastered BD looks.

    Optical discs might be going the way of the dodo, but I loved how they developed BD to have so many layers. Discs can be built up to over 100GB and the standard is capable of specing up to Cinema 4K.

    Yet people's willingness to stick with DVD or go with downloads also furthers my argument that the bulk of the population just don't care about resolution. Tech geeks talk about their phone res, but most users do not. There comes a point where a display is "good enough". Price matters more. Storage matters more, especially if you want to have music and movies on your phone without having to hit the cloud on a metered connection to get them.

    A minority of smart phone users at this point are early adopters or tech geeks. Windows Phone is actually built more for the average joe than for the tech geek anyways.

    Verizon and AT&T are both looking to expand their customer base and their revenue base. Verizon wants to move people onto smartphones with data packages. They also want people using EVDO to move to LTE because it is cheaper for them long term. Their strategy is to not suck in the small slice of the pie that is the tech geek, but the huge slice of the pie that is business customers and the average joe. They will have some high end devices, but they are aiming mass market for Christmas.

    Like it or not, the Lumia 82X series is a mass market device.
  22. Ruined's Avatar
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    #47  
    Verizon said they will have a free WP8 phone by years end, this might be it.
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    #48  
    Verizon has never, in the history of mobile, EVER been an early adopter of advanced technology, including in the Windows Phone space.

    Every single device it has ever sold, including the original "Droid," was a safe, boring and non-state-of-the-art device.

    It is the "play-it-safe" carrier.

    You go with Verizon to get a mediocre device with a sky-high pricing plan and coverage in the middle of nowhere. If you want a state-of-the-art device, it's still GSM or bust.

    All of these devices for WP seem rather laughable (and this Samsung is even uglier than the 822 in white -- something I thought impossible up until now). But I have no doubt they'll be selling boatloads of them to the same people they sold LG EnV and LG Chocolate and Droid Whatever devices to... people whose "advanced applications" are e-mail and being able to make calls from rural areas with more deer than people.

    It has always been that way, and it will always be that way.
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    #49  
    Based on the leaked Samsung Galaxy Axiom, looks like the Odyssey will be a 4" device. Looks like they're sharing hardware. Note placement of light sensors, front camera, earpiece similarity to the Odyssey leaks.

    Twitter / evleaks: Samsung Galaxy Axiom (SCH-R830) ...
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck232 View Post
    Based on the leaked Samsung Galaxy Axiom, looks like the Odyssey will be a 4" device. Looks like they're sharing hardware. Note placement of light sensors, front camera, earpiece similarity to the Odyssey leaks.

    Twitter / evleaks: Samsung Galaxy Axiom (SCH-R830) ...
    Assuming the i930 is the Odyssey, if you look through the FCC documentation the phone is listed as being 4.7" x 2.42" (119.5mm x 61.5mm) in size. It would be tough to fit a screen much larger than 4" in a phone this size. In fact assuming the images of the Odyssey posted are the i930 referenced in the FCC docs, you can simply zoom the image in your browser (or in Photoshop) to be 119mm x 61.5mm and you can measure the size of the screen to be 4"
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