How is a highly anticipated phone like the Galaxy S3 able to sell on all carriers, yet the Lumia 920 is only on Rogers (Canada) and AT&T (USA)? I thought exclusives were a thing of the past. Considering WP8 and Nokia need all the help they can get, this is an extremely dangerous decision, whoever made it. Does Nokia not want the 920 to be given a chance? Does MS not want WP8 to be given a chance? The Lumia line just doesn't have enough drawing power to make people switch carriers, so I just don't get this decision. Does anyone have a clue who exactly would have dictated this choice? Nokia? MS? Carriers? All?
Who dictates what phone a carrier will sell?
- Thread starter Timture
- Start date
VagrantWade
New member
Because Samsung is a massive company and Android has the largest marketshare.
The decision made in agreement by both the company making the phone, and the carrier. Typically if the carrier does not want to offer enough for marketing or subsidization, the Manufacturer will go with a carrier that will.
The decision made in agreement by both the company making the phone, and the carrier. Typically if the carrier does not want to offer enough for marketing or subsidization, the Manufacturer will go with a carrier that will.
It is a mix of factors.
1) Pricing. If a carrier can buy a high-end phone for less money, they make more of a profit. A $199 Galaxy S III is far more profitable for a carrier than a $199 iPhone 5, since the S III costs about $200 less for the carrier to purchase. For phones like the 8X, HTC is charging a lower price on a desirable handset, so carriers view it as a potentially highly profitable way to get new subscribers (or keep upgrade costs down).
2) Differentiation. Traditionally, carriers aimed for exclusive handsets to try and win customers who really wanted that phone. To get it, customers had to sign up for service. This worked OK back in the dark ages, and doesn't work so well today. The last successful "exclusive" that I can think of is the original Moto DROID in 2009, the same year that Palm's exclusive with Sprint on the Pre was a disappointing launch.
3) Sellthrough. Carriers don't want to stock phones that won't sell. Inventory carrying costs are too high.
4) Reliability. Carriers don't want to sell phones that have a high failure rate or other similar problems.
1) Pricing. If a carrier can buy a high-end phone for less money, they make more of a profit. A $199 Galaxy S III is far more profitable for a carrier than a $199 iPhone 5, since the S III costs about $200 less for the carrier to purchase. For phones like the 8X, HTC is charging a lower price on a desirable handset, so carriers view it as a potentially highly profitable way to get new subscribers (or keep upgrade costs down).
2) Differentiation. Traditionally, carriers aimed for exclusive handsets to try and win customers who really wanted that phone. To get it, customers had to sign up for service. This worked OK back in the dark ages, and doesn't work so well today. The last successful "exclusive" that I can think of is the original Moto DROID in 2009, the same year that Palm's exclusive with Sprint on the Pre was a disappointing launch.
3) Sellthrough. Carriers don't want to stock phones that won't sell. Inventory carrying costs are too high.
4) Reliability. Carriers don't want to sell phones that have a high failure rate or other similar problems.
Vallos
New member
Microsoft was not in this decision. This is between Nokia and AT&T. The questions are, did Nokia reach out to the other carriers for exclusivity? If so, then what were the parameters that prompted Verizon and T-Mobile to not except Nokia's offer? The only thing I can think of is money. Nokia set a price, and AT&T matched it.
tk-093
New member
Nokia wanted to just be on AT&T. It was their choice. They think exclusive stuff is the way to go.
But I really can't imagine anyone, especially Nokia, would think this is good for them. So this just leads me to think, Samsung will push for the Ativ S on all carriers. And if they do, they will be giving WP8 the true push it needs. I really want the WP OS to succeed as it will be my next OS of choice.
palandri
Retired Moderator
I think that Nokia is pursuing a bit of a classic automotive strategy.
You have the Dodge Spirit family car (boring but big selling) and the Dodge Viper (fast, exciting, exotic and expensive).
The 8XX series is Nokia's Dodge Spirit. They're planning variants for every carrier and pushing it hard. The 9XX series is the Dodge Viper -- the "sexy" handset that "everyone wants" but few can actually get. Interested customers walk out with the "big seller" instead (e.g. the 8XX). Handing it to AT&T keeps Nokia's biggest partner happy and still allows them to sell 8XX handsets everywhere.
I don't agree with that strategy, but I can see why Nokia might think it's a good idea.
You have the Dodge Spirit family car (boring but big selling) and the Dodge Viper (fast, exciting, exotic and expensive).
The 8XX series is Nokia's Dodge Spirit. They're planning variants for every carrier and pushing it hard. The 9XX series is the Dodge Viper -- the "sexy" handset that "everyone wants" but few can actually get. Interested customers walk out with the "big seller" instead (e.g. the 8XX). Handing it to AT&T keeps Nokia's biggest partner happy and still allows them to sell 8XX handsets everywhere.
I don't agree with that strategy, but I can see why Nokia might think it's a good idea.
Bentstraight
New member
Sorry but car analogies are just wrong. The average Joe just cannot buy a $100 Grand car. But with phones these days most anyone can get any phone. That's just the reality. Forget teenagers, you see kids in elementary schools with GS3s and iPhone 5s. With the heavy subsidizing of phones these days, price isn't the same factor it used to be.
In any case, if this came down to "right now" money from AT&T and Rogers, Nokia are very shortsighted. There is nothing better than having your breakthrough handset with a breakthrough OS on as many carriers as possible, thus having the best chance at getting into the hands of the masses. It will be very embarrassing for Nokia if the biggest selling WP8 phone is not a Nokia.
A nd you know this how? How do you know that TMo and VZN and whomever were not offered the 920 at price x agreed to be ATT and not by any other carrier? The fact that ATT is the exclusive carrier for the whatever phone does not necessarily mean that they did not offer it to anybody else. It only means that ATT was willing to pay the ASKING PRICE FOR THE 920!!! and nothing more without additional information.
astraith
New member
tk-093
New member
It's a business basically.
Nokia peddles to as many carriers as they can and accept and decline the offers based on their best interest, or what the heads of marketing and sales say what is in their best interest.
Carriers listen to the peddlers and make counter offers. They too can also make decisions based on their best interest by listening to their heads of marketing and sales.
So there are a lot things that prevent the 920 from being carrier wide but I think the main culprits are.
- AT&T offering them a deal they couldn't refuse. The people in power at Nokia probably calculate the 920 getting spanked by the iphone 5 and GS3 during the holidays so if someone is willing to pay them what they expect to make up front, then it is an easy offer to accept.
- Verizon and Tmobile marketing and business people looking at past WP sales and not willing to go all in on WP but are perfectly okay testing the waters with a low end 820.
- The staff in power at the carriers growing up with Apple and Samsung but are not sure that WP will be a success.
Either way, there is a lot of research and late night meetings that goes on behind the scenes in order to reach these decisions and according to standard business practices, both Nokia and the carriers decided that this was how it should go down.
I know fanboys and fanboys polls suggest this was the wrong move by both Nokia/MS and the carriers but hey, the qualified(hopefully) people that Nokia and the carriers hired truly think that this is the best route to take and are willing to bet their bonuses(quite important if you have a family to feed) and maybe even their jobs on it.
Nokia peddles to as many carriers as they can and accept and decline the offers based on their best interest, or what the heads of marketing and sales say what is in their best interest.
Carriers listen to the peddlers and make counter offers. They too can also make decisions based on their best interest by listening to their heads of marketing and sales.
So there are a lot things that prevent the 920 from being carrier wide but I think the main culprits are.
- AT&T offering them a deal they couldn't refuse. The people in power at Nokia probably calculate the 920 getting spanked by the iphone 5 and GS3 during the holidays so if someone is willing to pay them what they expect to make up front, then it is an easy offer to accept.
- Verizon and Tmobile marketing and business people looking at past WP sales and not willing to go all in on WP but are perfectly okay testing the waters with a low end 820.
- The staff in power at the carriers growing up with Apple and Samsung but are not sure that WP will be a success.
Either way, there is a lot of research and late night meetings that goes on behind the scenes in order to reach these decisions and according to standard business practices, both Nokia and the carriers decided that this was how it should go down.
I know fanboys and fanboys polls suggest this was the wrong move by both Nokia/MS and the carriers but hey, the qualified(hopefully) people that Nokia and the carriers hired truly think that this is the best route to take and are willing to bet their bonuses(quite important if you have a family to feed) and maybe even their jobs on it.
I am pretty sure it's much more simple.. AT&T is the biggest, Nokia wants them to sell the 920 and AT&T says 'OK, but we want it exclusively'
ColeHarris
New member
Winterfang
New member
I like think is something like that.
Samsung: Hey AT&T we want you to have our High end Windows Phone at the store.
AT&T: Windows Phones sell well at budget price only, make it exclusive.
Samsung: We do have the Note 2 coming out, it will be a shame if you won't have it.
AT&T: We'll have the ATIV ^_^U
HTC: Hey AT&T we want you to have our High end Windows Phone at the store.
AT&T: Windows Phones sell well at budget price only, make it exclusive.
HTC: We do have the OneX+ coming out, it will be a shame if you can't have it.
AT&T: We'll have the 8X ^_^U
Nokia: Hey AT&T we want you to have our high end Windows Phone at the store.
AT&T: Windows Phones sell well at budget price only, make it exclusive.
Nokia: Okay =(
It's difficult. Someone like Samsung has a huge following from their previous 2 phones, all coming to the end of their contract, who want a new phone, so the s3 is an easy sell. Same with many other upgrading android users. The s3 is well spec'd and well priced, so Samsung don't need much from the carriers.
Nokia have a completely different problem. How many WP device were sold in the first year? A couple of million worldwide, that's nothing, so Nokia can't just rely on upgrades to fill their pockets, they need new business.
That is unfortunately where the carriers come in. Nokia don't want someone carrying the device, they have to have carriers that will try and sell a phone to everyone that walks through the door. Like it or not, Nokia simply don't have the money to pay every carrier to do that, so they need to find the best deal possible.
AT&T are actually training their staff on wp8, which is something that is desperately needed.melts hope they get the buzz going, sell loads of phones, and then the 920 goes to all carriers after a month or 2.
Nokia have a completely different problem. How many WP device were sold in the first year? A couple of million worldwide, that's nothing, so Nokia can't just rely on upgrades to fill their pockets, they need new business.
That is unfortunately where the carriers come in. Nokia don't want someone carrying the device, they have to have carriers that will try and sell a phone to everyone that walks through the door. Like it or not, Nokia simply don't have the money to pay every carrier to do that, so they need to find the best deal possible.
AT&T are actually training their staff on wp8, which is something that is desperately needed.melts hope they get the buzz going, sell loads of phones, and then the 920 goes to all carriers after a month or 2.
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