Why no quad core

[CSJr1]

You guys should think out of the box. It has no bearing on whether the phone needs it or not. Microsoft has eyes, they can tell that a good percentage of sells will come from stats alone because Android is selling like hotcakes with HTC and LG putting out quad core behemoths.

OP, you need to add another poll option. Microsoft is not certifying quad core WP8 because then the phone would be as fast and even faster than their Surface. The surface is a quad core Tegra 3 at 1.4 Ghz. Numerous bench marks have shown the Qualcomm S4 Pro runs circles around the Tegra 3. So WP8 made by other OEM's will not and can not be faster than their baby. Surface is their sales engine, WP8 is not.

 

[jdevenberg]

Here is the reason
Windows Phone 8 is optimized for use a a specific chip. It has been under development for quite a while now. Microsoft wanted to launch for holiday 2012, and the first quad-core, LTE enabled chip JUST became available for use and all of one phone has been announced using it, and it is still unreleased. So basically, MS was faced with the same choice Android phone makers have been facing for the past year. Do I go quad-core or LTE? What Android makers did was do Quad Core for the unlocked/international version and LTE dual core for the US version. Microsoft didn't want to develope for two chip sets right away, and realized that LTE is going to become more wide spread rapidly and that data speed was a bigger bottle neck in performance than the one created by having a dual core instead of a quad core processor. So they chose to go with a dual-core, LTE enabled Qualcomm S4. You can bet your bottom dollar that they will use the quad core S4 as their next chip of choice, but they didn't skip it to create another interm generation of phones (hello all WP7.5 devices), but to meet their target launch date.

 

[CSJr1]

What Android makers did was do Quad Core for the unlocked/international version and LTE dual core for the US version.

The Android LG Optimus G, (already released US), is quad core S4 Pro with LTE. They figured it out before WP8 release. So this is definately not a hardware restriction, but a Microsoft imposed limitation.

 

[jdevenberg]

The Android LG Optimus G, (already released US), is quad core S4 Pro with LTE. They figured it out before WP8 release. So this is definately not a hardware restriction, but a Microsoft imposed limitation.

I didn't realize the Optimus G was already out, I don't really follow Android launches any more. Android phones will always have the latest technology before Windows Phone and iPhone. That is the trade off you get when you take away device maker freedom in the name of a stable OS. I think MS made the right choice. One thing people are ignoring is the fact that all Windows Phone's would cost more had they gone with the S4 Pro. MS needs mid-range handsets too. The dual core version of the S4 is still a perfectly powerful, capable chip that will cost less money. I really see no reason for MS to have gone quad core so early for so little gain.

 

[power5]

Coding for DC is not very different than coding for 8C. You tell the OS to utilize as many cores as available. I am not a programmer, but there is no way MS Word is coded for DC, then recoded for TC, then recoded for QC, then recoded for HC, then recoded for 8C. Its coded to simply utilize as many cores as possible for certain tasks. The major tasks are handled with priority. At least that is how I envision it. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[brmiller1976]

Trouble isn't coding for multiple cores, it's that the current chipsets don't support LTE (which I find to be somewhat overhyped, especially with data caps).

A WP OEM could release a quad-core 4G Windows Phone on T-Mobile right now that runs on HSPA+, but it wouldn't support LTE (so people would complain). Plus, it would be a specialized/"exclusive" phone only sold on one carrier, which is a bad idea.

Once Qualcomm gets Snapdragon Quad core running with LTE and LTE-Advanced, you'll see a whole bunch of quad-core WP8 phones. Promise!

 

[power5]

You realize of course that the first LTE phones did not have LTE in the chipset I hope.

 

[brmiller1976]

Yes... and performance, data speeds and battery life SUCKED as a result.

 

[alzaeem]

OEMs don't have the capability to do so. In a smart phone all system components are intergrated into one chip (a system on a chip), which in windows phone's case is always made by Qualcomm. For a chip to work with an OS the chip maker needs to write drivers for the whole chip which allows the OS to control it, so OEMs can only work with the chips that are currently supported by WP8, which doesn't include any quad core at the moment.

Now qualcomm only recently released their first quad core chip which is used in the nexus 4, so perhaps it's a shame that it's not supported, but there are reasons for that. This chip doesn't have integrated modem making it more expensive for OEMs by requiring a separate modem. Also, Qualcomm supports Android for all of their chips (owing to its wide user base and open source nature) but for WP they only pick certain models in agreement with Microsoft. From what I know this chip will not be supported, but the upcoming quad core chip with an integrated modem will be, possibly in the next major update of WP.

But keep in mind that the current dual core in WP8 is one of the best in the market, second only to the chip in nexus 4 (but probably more efficient). Also, WP will be adding support to other lower end dual cores to enable lower price points and this should come much sooner.

I do expect and hope that Microsoft will start supporting Nvidia chips in WP since they already do in Windows RT which has a shared core, and this whould spice things up and provide more options and make things more competitive with Android.

 

[a5cent]

Coding for DC is not very different than coding for 8C. You tell the OS to utilize as many cores as available. I am not a programmer, but there is no way MS Word is coded for DC, then recoded for TC, then recoded for QC, then recoded for HC, then recoded for 8C. Its coded to simply utilize as many cores as possible for certain tasks. The major tasks are handled with priority. At least that is how I envision it. Correct me if I am wrong.

Hey power5. I am a software developer. I've developed software for very large systems with thousands of cores. Your hunch in regard to how software runs on multiple cores sounds reasonable, but it is very wrong. I described how this works (semi-detailed) in my very first post in this forum. Hope you find it useful.

 

[alzaeem]

Hey power5. I am a software developer. I've developed software for very large systems with thousands of cores. Your hunch in regard to how software runs on multiple cores sounds reasonable, but it is very wrong. I described how this works (semi-detailed) in my very first post in this forum. Hope you find it useful.

I was ready to blast you for this quote, but then I decided to read up your post. Well you know your stuff, and you are absolutely right with what you say there. That being said Power5 is 100% correct: you don't need to rewrite your code for the number of cores, the OS abstracts that and manages the cores as needed by all the tasks happiening in the system. Of course you knew that already but probably mis-understood.

and I just want to add that it's funny that most laptops sold use dual core CPU's (hyper threading doesn't really count), and that's fine for majority of users running complex PC/Mac/Linux applications which are much more optimized for multiple cores. The only time you are limited is if you are doing crazy multi-tasking.

 

[a5cent]

Hey alzaeem, possibly I still misunderstand you then. I've worked in large teems and been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get software to scale well across multiple cores. I don't think anybody would pay that kind of money for something that works 'automatically'. This often involves a deliberate effort (depends on the software in question). Like I said in that post, software that uses two threads isn't always easily restructured to make good use of more, and if that isn't achieved, you can throw as many cores at it as you want.... it will never use more than two cores.

 

[PG2G]

Hey alzaeem, possibly I still misunderstand you then. I've worked in large teems and been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get software to scale well across multiple cores. I don't think anybody would pay that kind of money for something that works 'automatically'. This often involves a deliberate effort (depends on the software in question). Like I said in that post, software that uses two threads isn't always easily restructured to make good use of more, and if that isn't achieved, you can throw as many cores at it as you want.... it will never use more than two cores.

I think power was saying that software is coded to make use of the max number of cores that it can and the OS will take care of the rest.

I'd say that is semi-accurate. Everything in software design and development has trade offs. Doing the above can drastically increase code complexity, which in turn can result in more software defects. Then you also have the fact that context switching and thread synchronization can have negative effects on performance (I'm sure its negligible on today's desktop chips, not sure about ARM)

 

[lhunter1130]

ill end this discussion right now.. dual cores is what wp8 is designed for, it is optimized to run better than 4 cores with just 2 much as the wp7 was better than 99% of dual cores with just 1 core.. last but most important is PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT BATTERY LIFE.. AND UNTIL THEY CHANGE THE BATTERY TECH IN PHONES ALL A 4 CORE WILL DO IS DRAIN YOUR BATT 2X AS FAST. WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS??? MORE CORES= MORE POWER CONSUMPTION, WHEN THE BATTERY IS IN MY POCKET can only be so big or hot lol.. My laptop is 3 years old and is dual core i can open 15 web pages at a time most with videos on them and its just fine.. so your wanting a 4x core which is at almost the top of normal(note i said normal/average) PC tech in your phone??? get off your high horse and just CALL someone with it. I love tech but *****ing about something like this is retarded.

 

[Rich Edmonds]

I'd rather have dual-core support, but with little power consumption, lower cost and better execution. This is what Windows Phone 8 hardware has shown thus far. We argued Windows Phone doesn't require dual-core, yet we've got it. That's enough to power the system and provide the consumer more than a silky smooth experience. Could we improve the chips that are used? Sure, and I'm sure future handsets will make use of new innovations and improvements at the component manufacturer. I'd rather see optimisations made in execution and power management, rather than bundling more cores into the equation.

We'll have to see how the OS matures to determine whether quad-core is required. Considering we've yet to have issues with single-core chips (prior to WP8), I doubt we'd be looking to add the extra two anytime soon.

 

[dharmababa]

Keep in mind these are just the first wave of WP8 devices.

The S4 Pro is just an evolution of the S4. I wouldn't be surprised to see quad core WP8's announced early next year. Remember the HTC Zenith rumors?

Definitely debatable if its needed, but it doesn't hurt to be competitive on specs with Android for those who care about that sort of thing.

 

[gwydionjhr]

Keep in mind these are just the first wave of WP8 devices.

The S4 Pro is just an evolution of the S4. I wouldn't be surprised to see quad core WP8's announced early next year. Remember the HTC Zenith rumors?

Definitely debatable if its needed, but it doesn't hurt to be competitive on specs with Android for those who care about that sort of thing.

The S4 Pro is just an evolution of the S4. I wouldn't be surprised to see quad core WP8's announced early next year. Remember the HTC Zenith rumors?

CES is in January, yes?

I suspect the Nokia Juggernaut and HTC Zenith would roll out at an event like that. As many phones as they're rolling out for the launch, they still have to keep attention on the platform into 2013.

 

[a5cent]

I think power was saying that software is coded to make use of the max number of cores that it can and the OS will take care of the rest.

I'd say that is semi-accurate. Everything in software design and development has trade offs. Doing the above can drastically increase code complexity, which in turn can result in more software defects. Then you also have the fact that context switching and thread synchronization can have negative effects on performance (I'm sure its negligible on today's desktop chips, not sure about ARM)

If that is what power5 and alzaeem meant to say, than yes, absolutely agree.

I would also agree it is semi-accurate, although it is far less accurate in the smartphone-app-business than elsewhere.

 

[Shadai]

ill end this discussion right now.. dual cores is what wp8 is designed for, it is optimized to run better than 4 cores with just 2 much as the wp7 was better than 99% of dual cores with just 1 core.. last but most important is PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT BATTERY LIFE.. AND UNTIL THEY CHANGE THE BATTERY TECH IN PHONES ALL A 4 CORE WILL DO IS DRAIN YOUR BATT 2X AS FAST. WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS??? MORE CORES= MORE POWER CONSUMPTION, WHEN THE BATTERY IS IN MY POCKET can only be so big or hot lol.. My laptop is 3 years old and is dual core i can open 15 web pages at a time most with videos on them and its just fine.. so your wanting a 4x core which is at almost the top of normal(note i said normal/average) PC tech in your phone??? get off your high horse and just CALL someone with it. I love tech but *****ing about something like this is retarded.

+1

As much as I would like the extra power since I like to think of myself as a power user......

This right here is exactly why I would rather have the dual core over quad. All the power in the world is awesome except when the following apply:

1. Apps aren't optimized for that power meaning it is essentially wasted.

2. I'd rather get a full day of moderate to heavy use out of my phone rather then have to charge my phone 2 or 3 times a day.

TL;DR dual core is just more efficient both for use and power length

 

[sentimentGX4]

I'd like to write in a fill in poll option by saying most OEMs just haven't prioritized their limited supply of quad core chips for Windows Phones.

Those S4 Pro chips are scarce and, right now, only LG and Meizu have released devices with them. Other OEMs will use the chips for Android devices first since they are better sellers.

On the bright side, you should be happy to know that early benchmarks are out and the Lumia 920 is faster than both iPhone and Android on Sunspider. (Against Android, Lumia wins by a wide margin even pitted up against the next gen quad core S4 Pro.)

By Engadget's numbers:
914 ms on Lumia 920 vs 1,975 on Nexus 4 vs 1,283 on Optimus G (lower scores are better)

So you really have nothing to worry about. Dual core Windows Phone is currently faster than Android by quite a bit if you're a power user and that's what you worry about.