Microsoft Cheated Lumia Users

[dorelse]

For sure my lumia 920 will be last windows phone. I wont support company that lie and have no respect for their customer.

Your phone is 3 1/2 years old...that's a stellar run for any device. Yeah, they tried to squeeze an OS onto technology that is obsolete and it didn't perform. Time to upgrade.

 

[AgentTheGreat]

Re:

Daniel when you were writing the article on how we should "blame the Insiders who were honest about how bad Windows 10 runs on their 1020 and 1320" did it ever hit you that when there is negative feedback on your effort, as a large company such as Microsoft, that doesn't mean you go "I'm done with all of you then"?

You realize the feedback app can be considered a trap now? It works more in favor of Microsoft to bail on its users and blame them (a position your tone seemed to support) than it works to get people's opinion to Microsoft so they can fix issues.

Don't you think this perspective had a place in that article?

 

[AgentTheGreat]

Your phone is 3 1/2 years old...that's a stellar run for any device. Yeah, they tried to squeeze an OS onto technology that is obsolete and it didn't perform. Time to upgrade.

In comparison, iPhone 4S has seen five major upgrades in a period of 5 years since 2011. How many major upgrades have we - all of us - seen except from 8 to 8.1?

Now the fact that Microsoft was lazy enough to not go to seriously work on its phone platform is paying off for them in the form of fanboys stating numbers like "that device is 3 1/2 years old!"
Well, what did we get in those 3.5 years?! Care to elaborate?

 

[Maurizio Troso]

In comparison, iPhone 4S has seen five major upgrades in a period of 5 years since 2011. How many major upgrades have we - all of us - seen except from 8 to 8.1?

Now the fact that Microsoft was lazy enough to not go to seriously work on its phone platform is paying off for them in the form of fanboys stating numbers like "that device is 3 /12 years old!" well, what did we get in those 3.5 years?! Care to elaborate?

When you are right, you are right...

 

[Varun Rajan]

Re:

Put a sock in it....512MB devices perform like crap with WM10...it they did you would complain about how slow it is...

Yeah by your logic if the next update is so resource intensive. It would recommend a phone which should be always plugged in or run nuclear? I dont think windows mobile 10 could actualy justify any of that specifications. Its just released , a new os and needs performance improvements. But microsoft has no time for that so they blame on the old hardware. Its not that it cant be optimised.

 

[Pratyush Jayachandran]

Re:

What about Lumia 630/635?

 

[Daniel Rubino]

Re:

Daniel when you were writing the article on how we should "blame the Insiders who were honest about how bad Windows 10 runs on their 1020 and 1320" did it ever hit you that when there is negative feedback on your effort, as a large company such as Microsoft, that doesn't mean you go "I'm done with all of you then"?

You realize the feedback app can be considered a trap now? It works more in favor of Microsoft to bail on its users and blame them (a position your tone seemed to support) than it works to get people's opinion to Microsoft so they can fix issues.

Don't you think this perspective had a place in that article?

Well, the way I see it is a company can (a) either spend time trying to backport an OS for outdated hardware to people who are likely to get a new phone soon anyway or (b) trudge forward and make the OS better now for those who can run it. Doing both is not free and saps resources.

I get the whole 'promise' thing and why people are upset. But lines need to be drawn somewhere. Who knows, maybe they have a 'B' team working on making it better for S4 phones, but damn, this OS update is already 4-5 months late and I am not sure it would be a good idea to push it back any further for what is a shrinking and outdated audience. It's a weird thing to make an OS compatible with 3-year old phones as the benefit will only get you what, maybe a year of usage before all that work put in is useless? How many people are really in that group? Are they the big app spenders?

One reason Apple does so well is they charge high prices for phone and high prices for apps. Moreover, their audience *pays*. You have to also go where the money is. Chasing low-end phones and customers with limited income only go so far as the margins are razor thin. At some point, the value becomes lost. For 920/925/1020 owners, i think it's a tougher pill to swallow, but I still think it's odd if you own one of those you are not considering a 950/XL. i think once OEMs make more phones and fill the mid and high-range areas, this will become an easier decision if you do not like the 950/XL (which is a fair critcism).

 

[Daniel Rubino]

Re:

Its just released , a new os and needs performance improvements. But microsoft has no time for that so they blame on the old hardware. Its not that it cant be optimised.

I mean, we all know and agree that Microsoft has taken a desktop OS, stripped out some parts, added others (telephony) and replaced an OS (8.1) that was built only for mobile, right? That is not a trivial accomplishment.

They then managed to get it onto 18 phone models, which last I checked is more than what Apple has done with the iPhone combined.

When Apple puts OS X Mobile on the iPhone we can then compare the two and see if they have it backported to devices prior to their A9 chip. For now, the comparison is very superficial. I get it, consumers only see the superficial, but we're not here in a forum to focus on that stuff, are we?

 

[the1]

In comparison, iPhone 4S has seen five major upgrades in a period of 5 years since 2011. How many major upgrades have we - all of us - seen except from 8 to 8.1?

Now the fact that Microsoft was lazy enough to not go to seriously work on its phone platform is paying off for them in the form of fanboys stating numbers like "that device is 3 /12 years old!" well, what did we get in those 3.5 years?! Care to elaborate?

And the features on that phone is fragmented and crap and performance suffers. As many have stated in the youtube comments of the video below, planned obsolescence is real with everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvj_2Yn6aRY

And I think the 4S shipped with IOS5, so it's only seen 4 updates. Also, major updates don't mean a think if you are releasing major bits with incremental updates. We've only seen 8 and 8.1 because they were keeping the illusion of the one OS..lol.

Again, I don't think that Microsoft should have tried to update all of those phones, especially the budget phones with 512MB of RAM and low end CPU. They maybe could have optimized a little more, but my 928 ran like crap for a long time with Windows 10. That was not an enjoyable experience.

 

[Grant Taylor3]

If you only had the 1020, you'd, probably, be singing a different tune.

FYI bud I *DO* have a 1020 that I have had running Windows 10 Mobile since the first insider build.

I have had the 1020 since it was released in 2013.

I have had Nokia phones for the best part of 20 years and I have been using Windows Phone since the Lumia 900 release.

The majority of mobile users do not even know what OS they are running nevermind missing an OS upgrade.

Oh another thing if you wand Windows 10 Mobile to survive BUY new hardware because clinging to old hardware does not help at this point.

 

[Varun Rajan]

Re:

I mean, we all know and agree that Microsoft has taken a desktop OS, stripped out some parts, added others (telephony) and replaced an OS (8.1) that was built only for mobile, right? That is not a trivial accomplishment.

They then managed to get it onto 18 phone models, which last I checked is more than what Apple has done with the iPhone combined.

When Apple puts OS X Mobile on the iPhone we can then compare the two and see if they have it backported to devices prior to their A9 chip. For now, the comparison is very superficial. I get it, consumers only see the superficial, but we're not here in a forum to focus on that stuff, are we?

The next time microsoft runs .exe files i agree with the whole stripped down os thing. Right now i dont see ny benefits. Rather they also stripped down features of the old OS. But you are kinda right but the wait was too long to justify nothing in return. And as a previous 900 user i know how it feels when you know the latest apps are never gonna reach your phone. I contacted micrsofts support team of their website bia live chat. Even they told me to wait for the update. I had to explain about the twitter feed and all ��

 

[Varun Rajan]

FYI bud I *DO* have a 1020 that I have had running Windows 10 Mobile since the first insider build.

I have had the 1020 since it was released in 2013.

I have had Nokia phones for the best part of 20 years and I have been using Windows Phone since the Lumia 900 release.

The majority of mobile users do not even know what OS they are running nevermind missing an OS upgrade.

Oh another thing if you wand Windows 10 Mobile to survive BUY new hardware because clinging to old hardware does not help at this point.

Yeah then spend another year or two for the next update .guess what your phone is outdated update to the new phones to continue support?

 

[the1]

Exactly. They're victim blaming by pointing at those who complained about performance on the Insider program.

You didn't see them scrap Groove because it was unreliable according to feedback back then did they?

Victim blaming?
So pointing out a factual reason for something happening is victim blaming now? How many people have gotten on this forum and complained about the performance of Windows 10 on their phone and how many more complained using Insider feedback? Is it hard to imagine that maybe, old hardware can't handle a stripped down version of Windows 10? Everyone bashed the developers for not being able to work magic on these older (and mostly budget) phones; can we say that they are victims of misplaces anger? If so, is everyone who complained about the performance of Windows 10 oh their phone victim blaming when it was hardware and not the software as the cause?

 

[AgentTheGreat]

Re:

I believe the view that thinks loyal customers are "outdated audience" is short-sighted. You don't get to treat people who paid you money, who defended you and the product you made online, waited years despite the barren app store like this and expect them to remain loyal to you, regardless of how much money you spent on the product.

Before smartphones, I had a SonyEricsson J20 Hazel feature phone and supported WP even back then. Then I bought a Lumia 520 because I loved WP, and then I upgraded to a 1320. At the same time I got a Surface RT, then upgraded to a Surface 2.
Do you realize that because of the faith I had in Microsoft, I haven't actually worked with the real Instagram app since they first appeared?! Isn't that weird?! All I got through all the smartphone history was this half baked, beta "Instagram" app that became useless in a short while.

My Surface RT and Surface 2 died because of the "razor thin margins" you referred to. All this time, I had to deal with the horrible Xbox Music app that apparently received "updates" that did absolutely nothing and we all know those "updates" were just cheap tricks to create the illusion of support.

We were promised update to Windows 10 and that went out the Window, not that I was going to update my phone to that Android look-alike minus the apps! Still, yet another promise broken. Our services started working better on rival platforms while everything we loved about the design of WP that made it stand out - which ironically is not about Live Tiles - was yanked out of the product, and at the end of the day everyone rightfully declared WP dead.

Isn't it interesting that I am one of the people who spent time and submitted mock-ups for WP 8.1 notification center - ones that you used in one of your articles - and this is now how I feel?

Now be honest with me: isn't the battered wife analogy the brilliantly right one for us who stuck with WP?
Do you realize what you are suggesting is that we should have used common sense to see how Microsoft was screwing things up, and left sooner, so that we wouldn't have become the "outdated audience"?

"Costs and margins" are not good excuses for us. We could've been paid back in interactive toast messages since WP 8.1. We could have been paid back with the ability to share not only our location using SMS, but something as simple as sharing another location using SMS, or an actually usable music player, or a video player that didn't need to check something online before playing our local video file. Or a Store app that doesn't close when there is no internet connection, and lets us install the app from the SD card, throughout the years that we owned Microsoft phones. You know, these small things.It would have been that simple.

Do you think we will come back? or Microsoft will be able to gather any customer base for its mobile platform after this? Do you think I will let them? Of course not. I worked hard to convince people that WP had a better design and they didn't have to overpay to get an iPhone, but obviously no more. Not only is there nothing left to recommend Windows Mobile over the competing platforms, but there is now only hostility left.

That's why I said that view is short-sighted. Microsoft now has a much bigger issue with its reputation, and angry users who are left behind. Already the Microsoft mobile platform is declared dead everywhere; people like me will of course try their best to make sure it stays that way.

 

[the1]

Yeah then spend another year or two for the next update .guess what your phone is outdated update to the new phones to continue support?

That's not just isolated to Windows. Have you ever used an Android phone? Look at the high end phones from the past 3 years and tell me their last upgrade revision from the factory?

iPhone will give older phones an upgrade but any honest iPhone user will tell you that performance diminishes with each upgrade.

I understand many people are upset but lets really look at the entire picture objectively.

 

[Daniel Rubino]

The majority of mobile users do not even know what OS they are running nevermind missing an OS upgrade.

This is so very true and everyone here needs to keep it mind. People who have a 520 or 630 who are complaining about not getting Windows 10 are a tiny tiny portion of the actual Windows Phone users. They are the loudest, for sure, but they are massively overrepresented. In fact, a lot of you posting here are in the top 2% of users, but are very different from the everyday person.

Most of my non-work friends ("normies") know they have a "Brand phone" and it runs "Android/iOS" and that's it. Next up is can it run "X" app although most just use it for text, email, phone, and a few games. That hasn't changed in 7 years.

 

[Grant Taylor3]

Yeah then spend another year or two for the next update .guess what your phone is outdated update to the new phones to continue support?

My daily driver is a Lumia 950. I keep the 1020 as a spare alarm clock along with the Nokia N8.

 

[AgentTheGreat]

And the features on that phone is fragmented and crap and performance suffers. As many have stated in the youtube comments of the video below, planned obsolescence is real with everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvj_2Yn6aRY

And I think the 4S shipped with IOS5, so it's only seen 4 updates. Also, major updates don't mean a think if you are releasing major bits with incremental updates. We've only seen 8 and 8.1 because they were keeping the illusion of the one OS..lol.

Again, I don't think that Microsoft should have tried to update all of those phones, especially the budget phones with 512MB of RAM and low end CPU. They maybe could have optimized a little more, but my 928 ran like crap for a long time with Windows 10. That was not an enjoyable experience.

OK, 5 is not good enough for you? It has only been 4? We would make do with 3 major updates please.

Again:
"Or what about the iPad 2, which was released in March 2011 and has seen six major iOS releases (iOS 4.2.1 to iOS 9.3).

[Update: Some are claiming that while the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 will both run iOS 9, the update makes them slow. I'd have to agree that these devices are slower than newer hardware running iOS 9 (what universe are we living in if we expect anything different?), but they seem perfectly usable.]"


The Windows Phone upgrade model is so broken, even Android makes it look bad | ZDNet

 

[AgentTheGreat]

This is so very true and everyone here needs to keep it mind. People who have a 520 or 630 who are complaining about not getting Windows 10 are a tiny tiny portion of the actual Windows Phone users. They are the loudest, for sure, but they are massively overrepresented. In fact, a lot of you posting here are in the top 2% of users, but are very different from the everyday person.

Most of my non-work friends ("normies") know they have a "Brand phone" and it runs "Android/iOS" and that's it. Next up is can it run "X" app although most just use it for text, email, phone, and a few games. That hasn't changed in 7 years.

However, when we say it's dead, and reviewers online say it's dead, it's dead. That needs to be kept in mind. The thing doesn't become just a "brand phone running app X" without the top 2 percent here and tech savvy people around the web saying it's worth having. That's how it has always worked. We say it's good, the store guy says it's good, the end user thinks it's good.

Maybe Microsoft keeps thinking this way and that's why they tanked in mobile.

 

[mary beth hale]

For those of you thinking Android has it so much better, jump over to Android Central and read Jerry Hildenbrand's editorial on Microsoft's W10M update rollout..."Microsoft can Teach Android makers a thing or two about updates" on March 18.