04-26-2017 07:28 PM
51 123
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  1. techiez's Avatar
    https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...soft-accounts/

    So MS brings in new feature to IOS and Android. and what does it have to say about Windows phone/mobile.

    [Update 4/18/17 3:08pm Pacific: A few people have asked if this works with Windows Phone version Microsoft Authenticator. Windows Phone makes up <5% of the active users of our Authenticator Apps so we have prioritized getting this working with iOS and Android for now. If/When it becomes a big success on those high scale platforms, we will evaluate adding support for Windows Phone.]

    Is this a cruel joke or sad reality?
    04-19-2017 10:26 PM
  2. T Moore's Avatar
    04-19-2017 10:41 PM
  3. eddieDOTexe's Avatar
    Business is business.
    04-20-2017 02:15 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    You are essentially giving anyone who has your unlocked phone access to all your Microsoft accounts. Doesn't seem like great authentication, if that's your bag.
    xandros9 likes this.
    04-21-2017 03:51 AM
  5. techiez's Avatar
    You are essentially giving anyone who has your unlocked phone access to all your Microsoft accounts. Doesn't seem like great authentication, if that's your bag.
    Thats not the point here. Its a feature out there, lets users decide whether they want it or not, but the attitude of ms towards their own platform troubles me.
    04-21-2017 10:42 PM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    Thats not the point here. Its a feature out there, lets users decide whether they want it or not, but the attitude of ms towards their own platform troubles me.
    MS isn't going to save its chances in mobile by throwing money at development. The windows store has 700,000 offerings. Google play has 2.8 million. It takes very smart strategy to bridge that gap.

    MS has good growth in tablets. Their cloudbook and windows on arm initiatives are designed to break further into budget cellular PCs - Tablets, hybrids and laptops. They have a good shot at that, unlike winning marketshare in mobile. And if they succeed, developers of UWP will come. If that happens, mobile will become a possibility again.

    MS is very lucky they have the laptop and desktop market to leverage, and a OS platform that runs brilliantly on tablets (and can do things the others can't there, such as run win32s and Ink). If they didn't have those, they'd have folded win 10 mobile over years ago, like blackberry did with BB10. But because they have, there is still hope for people wanting windows on a phone.

    The trouble for you guys, is the strategic route into the phone market for MS, isn't through phones immediately. It's through tablets. When they have a strong tablet marketshare, the apps will be flowing and they can have a competitive offering on some form of pocket device.

    In the meantime, mobile for them is more like a long burner, side project. Something they want to keep going, so they can return to, one day. Something they can basically "keep alive".

    And, that's more than any other company in this situation would either do, or be able to do. Any other situation, and you'd have no updates, and the windows store would be dying, instead of slowly filling. If this was blackberry, Symbian, ios, android - and the makers had this sort of mobile marketshare, they'd likely have given up long ago.

    MS does care about mobile. But it just cannot prioritize it. It has to come after basically everything else, after the software platform, after desktop, after tablets and laptops, after Cortana with bots, after the HoloLens etc. Because it is a part of their plan, I am positive, but it is a part of their plan that is dependant on all those other things.

    Things have to come in a certain order, and a certain order of priority. I think if MS is successful in its bid for the budget tablet and laptop markets, we'll see a rise in UWPs. If Cortana with bots is a success, we'll see conversation as a platform take off. Those things in place, you should see a rising interest in pocket devices and wearables again from MS. Because then there will be a thriving ecosystem to support it. And most likely a few new hardware releases will come at exactly that time. But the platform/software itself has to come first, in order for pocket devices to be competitive, and profitable.

    In some respects this resembles the pre-ipod years of apple. Where they ran everything lean, focused on future development, market plays, and cut costs, ran core business for profit. Sort of bidding ones time, while putting things in place. They reduced the number of models of mac to just one.

    And I am sure that period of time annoyed plenty a mac user (such as those on the abandoned risc platform, or those who felt switching to intel was "selling out" to the enemy). But retrospectively I don't think anyone would regard it as bad for apple, or its consumers. They are now the number one dominant tech company profit wise, and have numerous products.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-21-2017 at 11:08 PM.
    04-21-2017 10:57 PM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Basically while they are focusing on tablets, latops, desktops, sever, Cortana, HoloLens etc -

    Any app that is primarily useful on a windows 10 mobile, rather than other devices, is going to be a secondary consideration. At least until windows on ARM comes out, and there a glut of other devices with LTE and calling. Fortunately windows on ARM comes out late this year, and that's been made official.

    If you want to feel good about your windows 10 mobile situation, head over to our sister site, crackberry, and talk to some bb10 users :P
    Charis Ntouroutlis likes this.
    04-21-2017 11:15 PM
  8. Sedp23's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile had become a internal joke at Microsoft now . This is just terrible

    Sent from Idol 4s
    xandros9, Elky64 and aximtreo like this.
    04-22-2017 04:56 AM
  9. TgeekB's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile had become a internal joke at Microsoft now . This is just terrible

    Sent from Idol 4s
    If you would read the above post you would have a better idea of what may be happening. People not having patience, in an I want everything right now world, does not make MS a joke.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-22-2017 07:41 AM
  10. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile had become a internal joke at Microsoft now . This is just terrible

    Sent from Idol 4s
    How do you know it's an internal joke? Do you have insight into MS on what the sentiment is?
    Charis Ntouroutlis likes this.
    04-22-2017 02:30 PM
  11. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    You are essentially giving anyone who has your unlocked phone access to all your Microsoft accounts. Doesn't seem like great authentication, if that's your bag.
    I actually have to really disagree with that. In order for the above to be true it must also be true that the authentication of the phone, i.e. unlocking it, is easier than just accessing the user account directly and doing it there. In other words, getting into the phone has to be easier than getting into the account using a regular browser.

    Now, while it's certainly true that one can get a pin code simply by looking at someone typing it on the phone you could do the same when people log into a desktop account, or, simply figure the password out.

    However, the upside of this is that for users like me using an iris scanner to unlock the phone I just essentially got that functionality onto the computer. To me that seems like an improvement.
    04-22-2017 02:35 PM
  12. Sedp23's Avatar
    If you would read the above post you would have a better idea of what may be happening. People not having patience, in an I want everything right now world, does not make MS a joke.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    We've had patience since wp7 in 2010 with Microsoft and all this "soon" and coming weeks bs....how long are u willing to wait? Until you're dead?

    Sent from Idol 4s
    EliteMikes and Elky64 like this.
    04-22-2017 10:00 PM
  13. Sedp23's Avatar
    How do you know it's an internal joke? Do you have insight into MS on what the sentiment is?
    No insight, but even their employees aren't using this bs anymore they don't even care about the os

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Elky64 and bing722 like this.
    04-22-2017 10:02 PM
  14. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    No insight, but even their employees aren't using this bs anymore they don't even care about the os

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Ok, so basically you're saying that it's a joke internally at MS, but really you have no clue if that's the case. It's about as valid a use of the phrase as the use of the word "dead" when used to talk about W10M.

    I'm just so incredibly bored with all the negativity and all of the use of words that imply one thing then don't really mean that at all.

    "They don't even care about the OS".

    I'm tempted to ask you how you know their feelings about the OS, but I'm guessing that the answer will be that you don't have any insight into their feelings, so it's just more meaningless words...... Anyone can do that.... here:

    Microsoft has promised to keep developing new Windows 10 Mobile phones. They will release a Surface Phone in August that is going to completely revolutionize the mobile smartphone industry. They're deeply committed to the platform and are in the process of doling out millions to app developers.

    I mean, maybe. I don't really have any insight, but I think that's true, so that's what I'll say.

    https://www.onmsft.com/news/windows-...rs-latest-data
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-22-2017 10:40 PM
  15. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    We've had patience since wp7 in 2010 with Microsoft and all this "soon" and coming weeks bs....how long are u willing to wait? Until you're dead?

    Sent from Idol 4s
    I have no idea what you're talking about. People have bought Windows 10 phones. Windows 10 phones, as far as I understand it, appeared after wp7 in 2010. So anyone who has waited for 7 years for something to supercede wp7 clearly didn't get the memo.
    Charis Ntouroutlis likes this.
    04-22-2017 10:44 PM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    I actually have to really disagree with that. In order for the above to be true it must also be true that the authentication of the phone, i.e. unlocking it, is easier than just accessing the user account directly and doing it there. In other words, getting into the phone has to be easier than getting into the account using a regular browser.

    Now, while it's certainly true that one can get a pin code simply by looking at someone typing it on the phone you could do the same when people log into a desktop account, or, simply figure the password out.

    However, the upside of this is that for users like me using an iris scanner to unlock the phone I just essentially got that functionality onto the computer. To me that seems like an improvement.
    Well if someone has access to the unlocked phone, they can use it in a small amount of time, to get access to it on their computer. That'd have to be someone who is close to you of course. But in a small window, they could gain private access to your account, on their own device. Say, a jelly GF for example.

    For most purposes I am sure its fine. And its not like you can't use regular authentication via phone this way. So I suppose you are right!

    Me, I'm the only one who has access to my PC and tablet, I don't use other devices, and I don't store credit card info on my phone, so factor authentication is more of a pain in the neck for me, than anything useful.

    For some people I imagine its considerably more useful.
    04-22-2017 11:01 PM
  17. Sedp23's Avatar
    I have no idea what you're talking about. People have bought Windows 10 phones. Windows 10 phones, as far as I understand it, appeared after wp7 in 2010. So anyone who has waited for 7 years for something to supercede wp7 clearly didn't get the memo.
    We've been waiting on apps to come been since 7 been waiting on alot and all we received was apps pulling out of the store, dropped device support and no new hardware....but of course the next refresh will be the best just like 7 was just like 8 and 8.1 was and just like 10 and the uwp will bring the developers right? They will string you along now ...7 years nothing has picked up the app situation is worst than ever, the hardware os lacking, Lumia is dead....but of course the next refresh will finally gain market share a d developers to the OS.... Keep being patient and wasting your money if u want

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Guytronic and Elky64 like this.
    04-22-2017 11:21 PM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    We've been waiting on apps to come been since 7 been waiting on alot and all we received was apps pulling out of the store, dropped device support and no new hardware....but of course the next refresh will be the best just like 7 was just like 8 and 8.1 was and just like 10 and the uwp will bring the developers right? They will string you along now ...7 years nothing has picked up the app situation is worst than ever, the hardware os lacking, Lumia is dead....but of course the next refresh will finally gain market share a d developers to the OS.... Keep being patient and wasting your money if u want

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Which apps have pulled out of the store?

    UWP doesn't depend on phones. Tablet and desktop users use them.
    04-22-2017 11:30 PM
  19. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    eBay, PayPal, various banks....the list goes on and on unfortunately.
    Guytronic and libra89 like this.
    04-22-2017 11:34 PM
  20. Sedp23's Avatar
    Which apps have pulled out of the store?

    UWP doesn't depend on phones. Tablet and desktop users use them.
    Ebay, PayPal, chase bank, ....theres plenty of app leaving every week

    Sent from Idol 4s
    04-22-2017 11:35 PM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    eBay, PayPal, various banks....the list goes on and on unfortunately.
    Well I suppose the local banks make sense. Their support of apps is generally pretty terrible. Quite often their android apps are buggy or they cut support for popular android revisions.

    And you don't need an app to get paypal or ebay, you can use a browser..... although with tablet users and desktop users using uwp apps, still kind of weird - people do A LOT more shopping on tablets and desktops than they do on phones, according to market surveys etc, particularly tablets and windows tablets are one of the very few growth sectors in tablets.

    Also weird considering neither ebay nor paypal have a need to cut costs, they are both still experiencing growth, particularly ebay. Not sure I understand those decisions commercially.

    More people coming to the windows store (evernote, kodi, facebook, Instagram, plenty of games etc etc) than leaving, but its nice to see some actual examples rather than the often generalised statements of "the windows store is "dying"). As someone who doesn't use ebay, but uses aliexpress, and never uses paypal because their fees are too costly, I would never have noticed (and whether you pay, or the seller, you get charged in the end anyway for the service).

    If I didn't have those examples, having watched the store grow a lot over the last two years, I am not sure I'd have believed anyone was leaving. The more you know!]

    Yeah banking apps does make sense. That's a mobile specific function of UWPs. Mobile marketshare globally is less than 1%. However in mature markets it can be as high as 5.8%, and has recently experienced growth. So it would depend on country as to whether the development was still worth it, understandable however. Mobile specific app functions are going to be low priority for anyone.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-22-2017 at 11:53 PM.
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    04-22-2017 11:42 PM
  22. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    I see what you're saying. The problem is that everyone here is a Windows fan, but we all have different user needs that, for the moment, can or can't be filled by W10M depending on who you are. On one side, you have people like me who use lots of apps because they are convenient and often times quick and efficient at getting things done. It doesn't mean that I spend all my time in Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat. It just means that I like having apps. Nothing at all wrong with that. However, if you bring up the lack of apps in these threads, you are immediately labeled as being a social media junkie and it's implied that you're opinion is somehow less than the opinions of people who don't need or care to use apps. These people say things like they are more business minded or do more productive work. On the flip side, whenever I see people defend W10M by saying that they don't use apps or that you can use the browser as an app replacement, I think that they are just grabbing at straws in defense of an OS that has clearly lost the consumer market. I'm just as guilty as the other person. My point is, no matter how we describe our experiences with Windows phones, the numbers don't lie at the moment. The entire population of us would barely fill a large city compared to the populations of Android and Apple users. All of us that are still here are letting that fact and the fact that our expectations have been severely let down by MS get to us. When people get frustrated and desperate they choose sides and become even more convinced that their opinion is the right one. The forum here, like the current state of political affairs in the world, is demonstrating this behavior all the time. Truth is, MS can't afford to listen to us. They have to base their decision on the trajectory of Android's app store. They have to be studying human behavior. Asking questions about why apps are so popular, are there any dislikes about Apps, what can possibly replace an app? And it can't be the browser. Browsing is a web term. The young people that I teach have no use for browsers outside of my classroom, and those kiddos are MS's primary target if they go after consumers. Besides, apps always were convenient replacements for browsers. So the issues here in the forum are really moot. We don't have an app store as good as the competing mobile OSs do and nobody here has the solution if it only includes their own needs, wants, and usage habits...or those of whichever side they are on. MS has to meet all of our needs in order to compete, and they just haven't done that yet. The only thing we can do is wait and see what happens.
    Last edited by Scienceguy Labs; 04-23-2017 at 09:12 AM.
    TgeekB, Elky64 and libra89 like this.
    04-23-2017 09:00 AM
  23. EliteMikes's Avatar
    I really didn't want to jump ship. I technically haven't just yet but I think my mind is made up. I have my 950xl sitting on it's box and I've been using the S8+ for a couple of days now with MS apps as my core services.

    For the most part, most apps work as well if not better on android. Skype is actually quick.... Authenticator works nicely, though I don't really care about the new feature. News and weather are okay, they are actually nicer on windows I think right now. Outlook has some nice UI touches that windows doesn't, but there are things I like about the windows app as well.

    MS has done mapping right IMO as far as the offline data source.
    MS also has background task management done right for the most part, there should be no max limit. Android, as far as I can tell has no way of leaving an app installed but not allowing it to run in the background. I think that is just dumb no matter how good you think your process management is.

    As far as other apps go. I say I'm not an app person, but I just installed a crap load of apps. From restaurants to stores to TV viewing apps. All of my banks are there and they support fingerprint auth.

    MS has laid the groundwork for an awesome OS, but I am not optimistic they can recover a user base anytime soon. I'm going to keep a cheap device on hand to keep up with dev builds and tinker with UWP.

    Getting back to the point of this thread, it's understandable why MS is not focusing on it's own apps. I'm a software developer and we have to focus on core areas of our system that get the most use. Edge cases are often in maintenance mode and we have to tell the small fraction of users they need to find a way to bring more funds to our table if they want new features.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-23-2017 09:05 AM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    We've had patience since wp7 in 2010 with Microsoft and all this "soon" and coming weeks bs....how long are u willing to wait? Until you're dead?

    Sent from Idol 4s
    I'm not actually waiting for anything because I'm perfectly happy. I am interested in what they are developing for the future and how it will change the way we use technology. Thus why I'm hanging on a Windows fan site.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    mtf1380 and mattiasnyc like this.
    04-23-2017 09:40 AM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    Ebay, PayPal, chase bank, ....theres plenty of app leaving every week

    Sent from Idol 4s
    All of which I have pinned to my start screen and use every day without issue. Sure, it would be nice if they had kept the apps alive but it hasn't affected me negatively at all.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    mattiasnyc likes this.
    04-23-2017 09:45 AM
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