Will WinRT run Win10 Apps- Serious Discussion

[Stefan Holder]

So by now we're all aware of the fate of WinRT devices and Windows RT in general. End of line! Now, for all the Surface RT/2, Lumia 2520, Asus Vivotab RT and the Samsung ATIV RT devices out there, some may be wondering what's next? While thinking about this, some questions arose.
We know that current WinRT devices can run Modern/Metro and Universal apps from the Store. So one would think that even though those devices won't be updated to Win10, their owners have little to actually worry about in terms of app compatibility. But it also brings into question; will Windows10 apps differ in anyway to current Win8RT apps? I'm talking about Store apps specifically here.

As for the updates currently being worked on for WinRT devices, that will include "some" features of Windows10, what sort of new features do you think will be included in that update? Will it be compatibility updates? Or new features that run on technology already present and supported by WinRT etc.

Lets hear your thoughts below...

Sent from my Lumia 1320 all the way from Jupiter.

 

[sashlon]

I think RT will get the UI update at most. Kind of like WP 7.8.

Maybe some 10 apps will be backwards comparable, certainly you'd hope the Microsoft apps might be.

Don't hold your breath though.

 

[a5cent]

Obviously the only correct answer is "none of us knows". The same question has already been raised and discussed here:
http://forums.windowscentral.com/microsoft-surface-2/322070-5.htm
but I'll leave this thread open for now. Anyway, in a nutshell, this is my take:
Historically, MS has always back ported the newest version of the .NET framework and runtime to older versions of Windows. The primary motivator has always been to enable the newest software to run on all Windows installations, so as to provide developers with the largest possible customer base, and customers with the largest possible selection of compatible software.
This has always been important to MS, now more than ever. Getting everyone who might potentially purchase W10 apps connected to the universal app store is absolutely essential to MS' success. Whether RT device owners receive a "trimmed down" W10, or whether they keep their current W8.1RT with some components being back ported to it from W10, I think there is no snowball's chance in hell that W10 apps won't eventually run on Windows RT devices.

 

[etphoto]

I would be very surprised if RT will run any Win10 apps.

 

[ajst222]

Obviously the only correct answer is "none of us knows". The same question has already been raised and discussed here:

http://forums.windowscentral.com/microsoft-surface-2/322070-5.htm

but I'll leave this thread open for now. Anyway, in a nutshell, this is my take:

Historically, MS has always back ported the newest version of the .NET framework and runtime to older versions of Windows. The primary motivator has always been to enable the newest software to run on all Windows installations, so as to provide developers with the largest possible customer base, and customers with the largest possible selection of compatible software.

This has always been important to MS, now more than ever. Getting everyone who might potentially purchase W10 apps connected to the universal app store is absolutely essential to MS' success. Whether RT device owners receive a "trimmed down" W10, or whether they keep their current W8.1RT with some components being back ported to it from W10, I think there is no snowball's chance in hell than W10 apps won't eventually run on Windows RT devices.

Said very well. I personally think that RT would end up running Windows 10 apps. We know that RT devices will end up getting "some sort of update" (paraphrasing from Terry/Satya/Joe/whoever it was), so at least we know that Microsoft will be supporting RT in some way. We also know that with OneCore, all apps will be able to run across all devices whether they are ARM of x86/64. RT already uses the same Windows Store that full Windows does, so we know it won't have a problem running those apps. It shouldn't have a problem running apps from the Windows Phone Store as they are meant for ARM devices anyway. So putting all of that together, I think we have reason to believe that RT devices will run Windows 10 apps.

 

[anon(5348756)]

I would be very surprised if RT will run any Win10 apps.

And your rationale is exactly what? Win10 apps run on WinRT, which is the same runtime Windows RT uses, so there is zero problem in making W10 apps work on WRT. The same code already works.

 

[tiziano27]

WP uses an ARM CPU and runs universal apps.
Microsoft announced a version of Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi with support for Universal apps. Raspberry Pi uses an ARM CPU and is connected to big screens.
So, It' pretty clear that Windows RT will run Universal apps.

I think continuum is coming too. If that is the case, then what is missing?

 

[Mike Gibson]

And your rationale is exactly what? Win10 apps run on WinRT, which is the same runtime Windows RT uses, so there is zero problem in making W10 apps work on WRT. The same code already works.

I wouldn't assume anything at this point. The WinRT API changed between WinRT80 and WinRT81 and I imagine there will be significant changes from WinRT81 and WinRTX APIs. Will MSFT backport all those changes to WinRT81, which is used on Surface RT?

We won't get an idea of how this will play out until Build (and really when the SDK is released).

 

[ajst222]

WP uses an ARM CPU and runs universal apps.
Microsoft announced a version of Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi with support for Universal apps. Raspberry Pi uses an ARM CPU and is connected to big screens.
So, It' pretty clear that Windows RT will run Universal apps.

I think continuum is coming too. If that is the case, then what is missing?

I don't think there's much of a sense in bringing Continuum to RT devices. They should just can the desktop all together.

 

[tiziano27]

I don't think there's much of a sense in bringing Continuum to RT devices. They should just can the desktop all together.

If Microsoft is serious about Universal apps, the framework has to be good enough to develop desktop apps, like line of business applications or professional apps, which have to work great with keyboard and mouse. I understand Universal apps is the future of Windows, Win32 is legacy.

In that context, It doesn't matter if the architecture is ARM or x86. Both are fully compatible with Universal apps of any kind, those optimized for touch and those optimized for mouse. The form factor of the device decides the user experience, not the architecture of the CPU.
For small tablets and phones probably the desktop is not needed. For 10-11 inch devices with the aspect ratio of the RT devices, It's useful. Microsoft sold that hybrid experience when they promoted the Surface RT, if they remove the desktop many customers will be angry.

 

[nmercy]

I personally think when they say "not full Windows 10", they mean they'll cut out the desktop and there still won't be support for Win32 apps. Losing the desktop isn't a big deal as they're finally making the Settings mostly usable and have access to what's needed. Other than that there's Office, which now has a touch version so would work fine for most people in that regard.

It should still be able to run Windows 10 Universal apps, but there may be features that are limited in it, similar to what they are talking about for phones, where newer phones have newer technologies and hardware specs so can handle more than their predecessors.

 

[Melon Metro]

x86 tablet with only $99 is much more powerful than RT devices.

 

[Steve Adams]

The fact is a lot of people have RT devices that they use ALOT and LOVE. Me included. I don't want to ditch my perfectly good tablet. I am getting great service from my VIVOTAB RT. Why should we be forced to buy a new tablet, I think MS is cooking up something for the users of RT.

 

[TheCudder]

I wouldn't assume anything at this point. The WinRT API changed between WinRT80 and WinRT81 and I imagine there will be significant changes from WinRT81 and WinRTX APIs. Will MSFT backport all those changes to WinRT81, which is used on Surface RT?

We won't get an idea of how this will play out until Build (and really when the SDK is released).

This. I would think that WinRT doesn't always equate to WinRT. Look at it from a point of Windows Phone apps being coded specifically for Windows Phone 8.1's API versus Windows Phone 8.0. So it's a valid concern.

Take this recent letter from Plex for example.

We also want to let you know that this update is our last major release for Windows Phone 8.0. Future releases will target Windows Phone 8.1.

Sure Windows RT supports current WinRT API's, but will something change in the API? Then if it does, does it come down to us getting an RT 8.x update with Win10 UI changes, or receiving a proper Windows 10.x RT update with a "features may vary" asterisk (similar to Windows 10 for phones on lower spec devices)? I would prefer the latter.

 

[Steve Adams]

I just hope I can take advantage of new apps that will be developed for win10. That's the only concern for me.