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  1. chucko's Avatar
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    One of my clients just purchased a Focus to use with his business POP email account. He uses Outlook on his desktop PC and all works relatively well.

    I set up the Focus to work with his POP email. The setup was simple and easy. He downloaded his first batch of mail and immediately asked what to do now with all of the email now in his phone inbox.

    No problem, I said. I had checked previously and knew that the default behavior of the Windows 7 phone POP email client was to leave the email on the POP server so I knew that if he deleted the email on his phone it would still be there for him to download and reply to on his desktop PC. "Delete away", I told him. "It will still be there and will download on your desktop PC".

    Apparently I was wrong and/or I was given wrong information about what the phone does to his POP email.

    Every message that he deleted from his phone also was deleted from his POP email server.

    WTF Microsoft?????

    I double checked the phone settings and yes, it is POP, and no, there is not any configurable settings for this behavior.

    RANT ON -

    POP email is incredibly basic and simple. POP email has been around for years. Pretty much everyone with reasonable tech skills knows how POP email works and how to setup, use and configure POP email clients.

    EXCEPT MICROSOFT!!!

    This is not IMAP. It's POP. It's supposed to behave a certain way. Mail should not be deleted from the POP server unless expressly deleted by a POP client that is purposefully configured to delete email from the POP server.

    Apparently the Windows 7 phone POP client does leave the messages on the POP server after it downloads them, but when the messages are deleted from the phone they are also deleted from the POP server with no way to modify this behavior.

    THIS IS WRONG!!! I can't believe that Microsoft made such a fundamental mistake with such as fundamental and basic system as POP email. The Windows 7 phone POP email client should not delete any email from the POP server unless we are given a way to configure and/or modify this behavior.

    MS needs to fix this and make the Windows 7 phone POP client behave like any other normal POP email client.

    RANT OFF -

    Does anyone know of any hidden tweaks or hacks to fix this issue?

    Using IMAP or forwarding email to another account does not really fix anything and it's just plain clunky to have to do something like that as a work-around.

    This is a deal breaker for the my client (and customer of AT&T). If I can't fix this then the phone goes back, plain and simple. It will most surely be replaced by a phone with a proper POP email client.
  2. jimski's Avatar
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    Didn't know that POP3 accounts are not supposed to delete messages on the server. Dont remember for certain but I thought that a POP3 account on my WinMo phone used to delete the messages I deleted on my phone.

    But a question, why delete messages on the phone if you know they are going to dissapear on the server. You can view all unread messages so you shouldn't have to sort through stuff you have already seen. These days I do most of my email management on my phone, but I did use Outlook w/phone synced POP3 accounts for years. Maybe I am missing something though.

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  3. VernonEL's Avatar
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    #3  
    I am not very technically savvy. If asked to do so, I would have a difficult time explaining the differences between an IMAP and a POP3 account.

    I do know two things regarding this thread topic:

    1: I agree that Microsoft should be the leader in making enterprise and personal mobile email work correctly and consistently. There is never any real excuse for a company to say one thing, and then do another, whatever it may be.

    2: I feel that the largest reason for the recent smartphone boom is basically because people like to be able to be mobile. People like having everything at their fingertips, and to be able to have quick, easy access to it. They like to save time, sometimes by eliminating the extra steps that a task may take. Mobile email is arguably the reason that RIM was so successful for many years, and continues to be a large reason that people use smartphones, especially for business. I have found, in my experience, that I will rarely check my email on both a mobile device and a PC. If I do login on my PC, it is usually only to delete the backlog of email that I have already read. This is an inconvenience to me, and I would imagine to most other users. I have shifted my primary email to Windows Live because the messages that I delete from my mobile device will be gone if I check it from a PC.
  4. #4  
    When I used to use POP in clients it always downloaded the mail and automatically deleted it from the server which I still hold the belief. That was one of the main advantages for me with IMAP, and allowance with server search and multiple mailboxes etc.

    Why don't you use IMAP? I know you ranted about it as a work around, but it's not really. POP is like persistently playing your N64 when a shiny new Xbox 360 (IMAP or Exchange) with Kinect is available.

    Richard Edmonds
    UK Editor - Windows Phone Central
    Newsroom UK Shift Manager - Mobile Nations

    Email: rich@mobilenations.com
    Twitter: @RichEdmonds
    Socl: RichEdmonds
  5. chucko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichEdmonds View Post
    When I used to use POP in clients it always downloaded the mail and automatically deleted it from the server which I still hold the belief. That was one of the main advantages for me with IMAP, and allowance with server search and multiple mailboxes etc.

    Why don't you use IMAP? I know you ranted about it as a work around, but it's not really. POP is like persistently playing your N64 when a shiny new Xbox 360 (IMAP or Exchange) with Kinect is available.
    If you look at both of the most common desktop POP email clients that Microsoft provides, (Outlook and Outlook Express), they have configurable options for POP accounts to control deleting email from the POP server. Many users, especially business users, may download email simultaneously to several different POP clients and it is normal to turn off deleting email from the POP server for all but one of those clients to insure that all POP email i downloaded to all of those clients. It's been that way for years.

    By not allowing the ability to toggle off the deletion of email from the POP server the Windows 7 Phone POP client has effectively broken the ability to use and manage business email using this method.

    I personally dislike using POP email for business but in some cases the business client is reluctant for one reason or another to upgrade to a more robust system such as Exchange.

    Microsoft simply blew it. It should have been easy for them to have included a couple of configurable options for deletion of POP email from the server like they did in Outlook and Outlook Express. It's not like I'm asking from some wizzbang new feature, I just would have expected them have duplicated the basic functionality of POP email clients that has been in place for several years.

    I will also note that both the iPhone and Android have the ability to configure these options.

    This particular business client is used to using POP and they have a system in place that works for them. They should not have to change how they receive and manage their email (by switching to IMAP) because of a glaring omission by Microsoft on the Win 7 phone.

    It is far easier to simply return the phone and just get one that includes a proper POP email client.
  6. jimski's Avatar
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    Ok, now I am confused. Yes, with Outlook desktop you can configure to delete/not delete messages from the server. But I thought your first post related to the client actually selecting/deleting messages from their phone which in turn deleted the message from the server. Are these not two different issues?

    When the messages sync with the phone, to the best of my knowledge they don't get deleted from the server until you actually take the action to delete them. I know Hotmail converted to POP sometime last year so not sure which of my three accounts; Hotmail, AOL & Yahoo are using POP on my phone, but they all work the same. Any messages downloaded on the phone remain till I decide to delete them from either the desktop or phone. Not using Outlook desktop anymore, and true that WP does not sync directly to Oulook mail w/o Exchange, but dont know if anything has actually changed server side.

    I guess in WM6.5 Hotmail had an option to delete messages from the server after syncing but now by default that does not happen. I think tis is all part of Microsoft wanting to push users ino the Cloud or use Exchange. Think its something we all need to get used to.

    Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
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  7. starblade876's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by chucko View Post
    This particular business client is used to using POP and they have a system in place that works for them. They should not have to change how they receive and manage their email (by switching to IMAP) because of a glaring omission by Microsoft on the Win 7 phone.
    People were used to using the abacus, too; learning how to work with better tools is usually a good thing. ;)

    Really though, I'm not seeing how someone could need POP (or even how it could be more beneficial actually). What's the benefit of removing emails on the phone, but still having them on the server?
  8. RickNash's Avatar
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    I just bought the Omina 7 last week to do some development work and when I deleted an email it disappeared !$%&^&

    I also discovered that I can not connect it to my laptop use it to connect to the internet.

    Also I can not transfer files to it unless I upload to the web or create a service to do it.

    Come on!!!

    Say a customer is sat in the office using one of my apps, they then wants to export some data to the mobile device and take the device and show a customer.

    Or they do some work in the field using an app on the WP7 and then need to tranfer that data back to a PC.

    This phone really has gone backwards I have been developing with Pocket PC/Windows Mobile for years and the basic stuff is missiing from the WP7.

    To be honest it will soon be heading for the bin.
  9. jimski's Avatar
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    Sorry your are disappointed. WP7 has been designed for the masses, being very simple and smooth to use, but maybe not for every IT Profesional. WinMo was a powerful OS that coulddo the things you describe but based on the market share didn't appeal to many users. Things will open up more with the Mango update, but never to the point WinMo was at in terms of IT/Business friendliness. That's just the way it is.

    Btw, SkyDrive and Dropbox syncing with WP7 works quite well. So with a WP7 app along with a desktop companion to read the data you can do some of the things you have done in the past. Different yes, but the same result. Check outSky Wallet to understand the concept.

    Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
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  10. IamNabil's Avatar
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    Are you really upset that the email client is RFC compliant?
  11. starblade876's Avatar
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    Don't deleted emails usually go to a folder called "Deleted Items"? That's what they're doing in my yahoo account and my other IMAP account.
  12. zreddog's Avatar
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    I am reading this and re-thinking my decisin to get a windows phone ( I almost pulled the trigger last night but decided to do more research).

    I have a BB and my email pushes to my device. my calendar and contacts sync when I plug the USB into the computer.

    I dont need hotmail,messenger,google or whatever else to keep my life organized. its been working pretty good for the last 2 years.

    Can someone tell me if this is possible with windows Phone?

    Thanks
    Chris
  13. jimski's Avatar
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    Windows Phone does not sync contacts/calendar via USB, but does sync OTA with Windows Live, Google, Facebook, etc., so I guess it depends on where you have your contacts/calendar now. Outlook? Don't know what your email client is now, but Windows Phone works beautifully with my Hotmail, Yahoo and AOL accounts, either via push or every X minutes check. Can view any folder within the parameter I set for storing messages; 7 days, 2 weeks, 1 month, etc. No glitches in 7 months which is mor than I can say from my WinMo device which used to get dumb occasionally.

    So if you are a heave contacts/email user, and do not use Exchange currently (which does support WP) maybe WP is not in your immediate future. Might need more specifics though to prod you along.

    Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
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  14. Rhody#WP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zreddog View Post
    I am reading this and re-thinking my decisin to get a windows phone ( I almost pulled the trigger last night but decided to do more research).

    I have a BB and my email pushes to my device. my calendar and contacts sync when I plug the USB into the computer.

    I dont need hotmail,messenger,google or whatever else to keep my life organized. its been working pretty good for the last 2 years.

    Can someone tell me if this is possible with windows Phone?

    Thanks
    Chris
    Other than your phone, what do you use for email, contacts and calendar? Do you use Outlook?

    You can set your WP device up with a Live account and tell it to sync calendar and contacts but not email. Outlook connector will sync to the Live account if you use Outlook.
  15. tdc01slm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody View Post
    Other than your phone, what do you use for email, contacts and calendar? Do you use Outlook?

    You can set your WP device up with a Live account and tell it to sync calendar and contacts but not email. Outlook connector will sync to the Live account if you use Outlook.
    I just got a HTC Titan for work purposes and want to sync my computer outlook with the outlook on the Titan. I have a pop3 email not exchange server. Can you help me set it up. I am not understanding what I need to do.

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