Future update problem; Force NoDo

[jeff4L]

Since there's a problem with future updates for those that did the force NoDo update, what's going to happen when the updates start to roll in. The new firmware is already out (I think) and the upcoming security update arrive supposedly around May.

 

[Kibosh]

I guess we will only know when it happens...

I updated my Mozart using the "disconnect network" method when checking for updates in Zune. A friend did the same with his Trophy and he still got the HTC update afterwards. So I guess that method was ok.

To be honest. It think if Microsoft wants, it will be able to update all phones, also the ones that were done by that tool. I really can't see why they would not be able to. It's just flashing the phone isn't it? First flash it to a pre-NoDo state and then the rest. So they could easely bring out a special tool for those.

Instead that I'm missing something, I don't see the big thing about it.

The NoDo update process was a complete disaster. Who to blame? MS, the providers or even the OEM's? I leave that open but it was a fiasco. So people turning to that internet tool was to be expected. MS should make right, and help those people, that's my opinion. Also when they do, it would be a nice campaign: See, customers broke their phones, but we at MS helped all off them, aren't we nice?

 

[gentry33]

I think it's getting a little too quiet around here so here goes;

I "Walshed" my HTC Surround on 4/5/11 prompted by all the hubbub and the lack of info from MS and AT&T. I had a lot of faith in Chris Walsh (still do). I was quite happy with the results and I have not noticed any of the side effects (bugs) attributed to the official downloads and have yet to see nodo from AT&T, which I am supposed to soon as "Walshed" devices do update to official nodo.

On 5/3/11 I recieved HTC firmware update through Zune , from2250.9.10307.502 to2250.21.15204.502. I do not know what the firmware was prior to Chevron updater was as I had not yet installed system info app until after I updated.

Some phones that used Chevron updater are having issue with update 7392. Only phones that used the updater are having problems but to his credit Chris Walsh has already developed a fix, the people who wrote the Samsung specific code for nodo should take a cue from him.

Microsoft is looking over Chris's work, are they because they want to make sure it works or are they learning something? They seem to want to alienate the developers on the homebrew front but I'm sure they do not like being upstaged at their own game and I have to wonder if ' security update's intent was specifically to cause the error and spook everybody back onto the approved path.

If for some reason Chris' fix is not released I will ignore update 7392 and go about business as usual and deal with mango if it comes down the pipe before I'm eligible for an upgrade. Ca va? Ca va.

 

[jimski]

@gentry33: Your pre-update firmware was the firmware that shipped with your (and my) Surround. The updated firmware is the current version. Same thing I got with the official AT&T update earlier this week.

@Kibosh: The Walshy update method left the phone in an incomplete update state, so while 7390 is on there, it did not complete the process on these phones. So any update after 7390, 7392 for example, won't install as its waiting for 7390 to be installed. But you also can't reinstall 7390 again. Rock and a jaed place. If Walsh can make a tool to convince your phone that 7390 is complete, that's great. But its not Microsoft's problem. I want them focused on finishing Mango as does everyone else.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

 

[Luisraul924]

The "future update incompatibility" issue is for walshed phones only right? I did the "unplug network early" method, and have yet to receive the May security update notification, now is that due to T-Mobile USA not pushing it yet? Or am I stuck too?

 

[Kibosh]

@Kibosh: The Walshy update method left the phone in an incomplete update state, so while 7390 is on there, it did not complete the process on these phones. So any update after 7390, 7392 for example, won't install as its waiting for 7390 to be installed. But you also can't reinstall 7390 again. Rock and a jaed place. If Walsh can make a tool to convince your phone that 7390 is complete, that's great.

I used the unplug network method. My unlocked Mozart already updated with the security fix, so no problems for me. I didn't used Walsh or Chevron.

But its not Microsoft's problem. I want them focused on finishing Mango as does everyone else.

Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

Unhappy customers are MS it's problem. Mouth to mouth publicity is very strong. They are long enough around to know these things would happen. They let it happen so now I believe they should fix it. And if Mango is delayed a couple off weeks, I don't care.

Off course I also want Mango, but probably more in hope that some other things are being fixed then the ones that are marketed.

The "future update incompatibility" issue is for walshed phones only right? I did the "unplug network early" method, and have yet to receive the May security update notification, now is that due to T-Mobile USA not pushing it yet? Or am I stuck too?

I used the unplug also and my phone updated nicely. It's an unlocked HTC Mozart in Belgium.

 

[Luisraul924]

@Kibosh thank you, just needed clarification on that.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

 

[jimski]

Unhappy customers are MS it's problem. Mouth to mouth publicity is very strong. They are long enough around to know these things would happen. They let it happen so now I believe they should fix it. And if Mango is delayed a couple off weeks, I don't care..

.

Millions of Windows Phones out there and the potential for tens of millions more with Mango. A few thousand devices that broke the rules and now can't be properly updated. Let the guy who broke it fix it. If I changed out the sealed 16GB SD card on my Surround for a 32GB, because I feel I deserved more memory, should I expect to get help from anyone when my phone stopped working.

Last week I was playing with Schapmans Advance Configuration Tool trying to change my accent color and made an innocent little change to my registry which broke all my third party apps. Took six hours to hard reset and rebuild, including my 150 apps. Who do I have to blame? Only me, for tinkering. I hope it all works out for the Walshy users but hey, play with fire and sometimes you get burned. Its not as if this update made a dysfunctional phone functional. How crazy are users going to be about Mango. It needs to stop now.


Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

 

[Kibosh]

Please don't speak about millions of users. We aren't with that much. MS said they "shipped" 2 million, but that doesn't mean all these phones are now in the hands of actual users. And there is that article saying it's only 674.000 units. Who is right I leave open, but next time just be carefull when saying things like "millions of users" because that is not true. None of us know the numbers, none of us know how many used Chevron or Schap. We just don't know this.

At the other hand. I see your point and I have to admit, seeing it like that you are right. If you twinker with the device and it breaks, it's your own fault. But I also see the point of those others. The NoDo update process was a mess. So yes, maybe a difficult call, and in a way I'm with you... but...

The thing is: I don't see how hard it can be to flash a phone back to an earlier state. MS has all the images they need about all the phones. The carriers should also. They brought out a special tool for the Samsung phones, and that didn't take too long to make, so why should it take a long time for this? It's just an image. I don't believe this would delay Mango.

Being not able to take an image of your phone is also a drawback and also mentioned by others. If we had the possibility for this, none of this would have been a problem. Especially for you: 150 apps??? Damn, that's much. Wouldn't it be nice you could take a backup of the current state of your phone? So while they are add it, they can make a backup option also and get rid off all future problems.

To to end: Yes, you are right, people should not tamper with their device and then complain. In defence: It won't take to much time to make a tool seeing how fast they fixed the Samsungs, and there was an actually hardware difference. Here it's just an image needed.

But I can be wrong about the image thing, I don't know much about it, in that case, I'm with you

PS: The article I reffered to: Only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices sold? Analyst causes online stir | WinRumors

 

[Goodeye]

Well creating an image has to be possible, how and where that's kept and how to get it back on there that's the question.

Zune creates a "Restore point" when you upgrade, it is essentially creating an image of the device at that time, so if you restore it can flash that image of your device back.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Luisraul924]

Well creating an image has to be possible, how and where that's kept and how to get it back on there that's the question.

Zune creates a "Restore point" when you upgrade, it is essentially creating an image of the device at that time, so if you restore it can flash that image of your device back.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct however I don't think walsh's method allows for a backup therefore there is no restore point, creating the issue in the first place, had there been a restore point it would then just make sense to restore to 7004/7008 then move up to the official update from there... One thing that did confuse me a bit was, weren't there reports that Walsh flashed phones (on ATT at least) were receiving the update to regular NoDo anyways? Why would there then be an issue?

 

[gyrferret]

Please don't speak about millions of users. We aren't with that much. MS said they "shipped" 2 million, but that doesn't mean all these phones are now in the hands of actual users. And there is that article saying it's only 674.000 units. Who is right I leave open, but next time just be carefull when saying things like "millions of users" because that is not true. None of us know the numbers, none of us know how many used Chevron or Schap. We just don't know this.

At the other hand. I see your point and I have to admit, seeing it like that you are right. If you twinker with the device and it breaks, it's your own fault. But I also see the point of those others. The NoDo update process was a mess. So yes, maybe a difficult call, and in a way I'm with you... but...

The thing is: I don't see how hard it can be to flash a phone back to an earlier state. MS has all the images they need about all the phones. The carriers should also. They brought out a special tool for the Samsung phones, and that didn't take too long to make, so why should it take a long time for this? It's just an image. I don't believe this would delay Mango.

Being not able to take an image of your phone is also a drawback and also mentioned by others. If we had the possibility for this, none of this would have been a problem. Especially for you: 150 apps??? Damn, that's much. Wouldn't it be nice you could take a backup of the current state of your phone? So while they are add it, they can make a backup option also and get rid off all future problems.

To to end: Yes, you are right, people should not tamper with their device and then complain. In defence: It won't take to much time to make a tool seeing how fast they fixed the Samsungs, and there was an actually hardware difference. Here it's just an image needed.

But I can be wrong about the image thing, I don't know much about it, in that case, I'm with you

PS: The article I reffered to: Only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices sold? Analyst causes online stir | WinRumors

To be honest, I've owned my DVP since end of december, and it was just yesterday (Mind you, I see a lot of phones around me and I pay attention to what type of phone people have) that I saw another Windows Phone user. They had a Surround.

 

[jeff4L]

You are correct however I don't think walsh's method allows for a backup therefore there is no restore point, creating the issue in the first place, had there been a restore point it would then just make sense to restore to 7004/7008 then move up to the official update from there... One thing that did confuse me a bit was, weren't there reports that Walsh flashed phones (on ATT at least) were receiving the update to regular NoDo anyways? Why would there then be an issue?

So you're saying using the restore point from the pre-NoDo wouldn't work?

 

[Luisraul924]

So you're saying using the restore point from the pre-NoDo wouldn't work?

Well in theory it should... But I don't honestly know. I don't know why people couldn't wait patiently for it. I know I said I used the unplug method but I was in a different situation (long story I'd rather stay on topic but in short it involved two HD7's). In all honesty I wouldn't have frowned upon Microsoft if they had decided to not help the Walsh method updaters they really didn't have to, I believe a day or two after the tool was created they sent the warning out giving people enough time to heed the warning, but I'm positive people ignored it because I know if I was in that group of people that was still waiting I probably would've used the tool lol. Its good for them that they are allowing for a homebrew-turned-official method to fix them though.

 

[Kibosh]

To be honest, I've owned my DVP since end of december, and it was just yesterday (Mind you, I see a lot of phones around me and I pay attention to what type of phone people have) that I saw another Windows Phone user. They had a Surround.

I don't understand what you mean here? Do you also mean there are just a few WP7 phones arround?

 

[jeff4L]

Well in theory it should... But I don't honestly know. I don't know why people couldn't wait patiently for it. I know I said I used the unplug method but I was in a different situation (long story I'd rather stay on topic but in short it involved two HD7's). In all honesty I wouldn't have frowned upon Microsoft if they had decided to not help the Walsh method updaters they really didn't have to, I believe a day or two after the tool was created they sent the warning out giving people enough time to heed the warning, but I'm positive people ignored it because I know if I was in that group of people that was still waiting I probably would've used the tool lol. Its good for them that they are allowing for a homebrew-turned-official method to fix them though.

As long as there's a solution, I'm happy. After this mishap, I'm pretty sure everyone can finally wait patient haha. If I attempted a hard reset, would I be able to re-install the updates?

 

[jimski]

Please don't speak about millions of users. We aren't with that much. MS said they "shipped" 2 million, but that doesn't mean all these phones are now in the hands of actual users. And there is that article saying it's only 674.000 units. Who is right I leave open, but next time just be carefull when saying things like "millions of users" because that is not true. None of us know the numbers, none of us know how many used Chevron or Schap. We just don't know this.



PS: The article I reffered to: Only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices sold? Analyst causes online stir | WinRumors

Don't want to get off track in this thread, but I believe the 674K was as of 12/31/10, and only US. I also remember reading MS shipped (not sold) 2.5M units, I believe reported in January or early February. I'm a WP7 app is showing, based on their registered users, 38% are in the US, which I believe is a fair assessment. So rounding up to 40%, that 674K as of 12/31, might be closer to 1.68M worldwide, as of 12/31. It's now May so certainly more phones have shipped, probably closer to 3.5-4M by now. With that said, I would comfortably estimate 2-2.5M sold as of today. Hece my millions statement. Think the Walshied phone estimate was around 25K, based on download.


Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

 

[Luisraul924]

As long as there's a solution, I'm happy. After this mishap, I'm pretty sure everyone can finally wait patient haha. If I attempted a hard reset, would I be able to re-install the updates?

I dont think so, I believe when you hard reset it, it just wipes all data off of the phone leaving it at the latest OS but with all stock apps and setup.

 

[jeff4L]

If I got the 7392 update, does that mean my phone will be able to update properly? Or did I just get lucky. I got it around 1PM Pacific time.

 

[jimski]

If I got the 7392 update, does that mean my phone will be able to update properly? Or did I just get lucky. I got it around 1PM Pacific time.

Yes, I believe so. What phone, what carrier?


Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express