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  1. Winterfang's Avatar
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       #1  
    I don't want that happening to WP7, MS better bring it.

    PS: I love you guys.
  2. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #2  
    Relax brow we are in it for the long hall and all this news just play right in to our hands (rubs hands together while laughing a sinister laugh).. ;)
  3. kismayaz's Avatar
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    #3  
    Yeah, MS isn't known for putting money into something if they're not in it to win it. :-)

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  4. GekkoAce's Avatar
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    #4  
    MS's has a strategy of bringing all these devices into an ecosystem people are familier with.
    Soon it'll seem like Windows Phone, Xbox, Windows 8, your car's touch screen, etc etc... are all one big eco-system that communicates with the cloud. I can't wait.
    So, it would be pretty silly for them to put the brakes on one of the major pieces of that view.
  5. Winterfang's Avatar
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       #5  
    I hope, is visited Palm central to give my condolences and the place is just sad. The editors are just angry and speechless.
  6. DontHate707's Avatar
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    #6  
    well they better get this update out and ****ing fix stuff after. no cheap phones either we want high end monsters!!!!
  7. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #7  
    Dont hate DontHate

    Somebody had to say it... lol

    :ninja: Dave
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  8. Rico's Avatar
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    #8  
    Honestly, it's not surprising that webOS is essentially dead. What's surprising is that HP killed it now versus 12-18 months from now. I really liked the OS, but it's had a number of missteps from the beginning, a few of which wouldn't have sunk it, but altogether pretty much doomed it to niche status at best.

    MS has exceptional developer support, a real ecosystem, and money. Palm had none of those things, and HP had the money, but nothing else.

    Let's not forget that much of the competition is weakening. Would-be competitor Meego was basically aborted. Symbian will continue to sell in the same markets but will dwindle over time as Nokia is lending their expertise to Windows Phone. Android's fine, but the Motorola Mobility deal is spooking OEMs. That's a lot of reasons to look toward Windows Phone.
    Microsoft Store employee; opinions are mine.

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  9. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #9  
    What's truly amazing is just how quickly and efficiently HP ran WebOS into the ground. A billion dollar acquisition that they did absolutely nothing with. I remember when HP said that WebOS would come installed on all their PCs. That alone would have made WebOS a dominate OS. Never happened. HP took forever to get a new phone to the market only to deliver the completely unimpressive HP Veer. HP has money but apparently didn't want to use any of it for marketing WebOS or putting forth a solid strategy.
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  10. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post
    What's truly amazing is just how quickly and efficiently HP ran WebOS into the ground. A billion dollar acquisition that they did absolutely nothing with. I remember when HP said that WebOS would come installed on all their PCs. That alone would have made WebOS a dominate OS. Never happened. HP took forever to get a new phone to the market only to deliver the completely unimpressive HP Veer. HP has money but apparently didn't want to use any of it for marketing WebOS or putting forth a solid strategy.
    Okay that made me laugh... :D
  11. smartpatrol's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post
    What's truly amazing is just how quickly and efficiently HP ran WebOS into the ground. A billion dollar acquisition that they did absolutely nothing with. I remember when HP said that WebOS would come installed on all their PCs. That alone would have made WebOS a dominate OS. Never happened. HP took forever to get a new phone to the market only to deliver the completely unimpressive HP Veer. HP has money but apparently didn't want to use any of it for marketing WebOS or putting forth a solid strategy.
    Yeah man, it's pretty pathetic.

    WebOS was a great OS (and is still ahead of the competition in some ways). The Pre, however, was a crappy piece of hardware. The "oreo effect" made it feel super cheap, I think the screen could actually get scratched up by razor stubble, you needed little kid hands to use the keyboard, and overall it just did not stand out among the iPhone and Android superphones.

    What they needed was some kick *** new hardware to breathe new life into webOS. So what did HP do? Announce the freaking Pre 3 and the Veer (an even tinier Pre, something NOBODY was asking for). It's like they actively tried to remind people how big of a failure Palm was.

    Then there's the Touchpad, their half-assed answer to the iPad. Apparently nobody at HP thought to ask "Why would an average consumer buy this instead of an iPad?"

    I agree completely with all the angry sentiments towards HP. They took an OS with tons of potential and rammed it into the ground as hard as they could. Oh well, at least it might end up being good news for WP7.
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  12. Winterfang's Avatar
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       #12  
    I like the Palm devices, I like how they didn't had any branding in front of it ( Like the Iphone ). I think that with the technology to make something as small as the veer, they could have made a super thin phones.

    Also It seems like the phones had bad specs, even worse than Windows Phone devices with horrible cameras also.

    I just don't see anyone making webOS devices, HTC is more than happy with Android, Nokia is in love with Microsoft, Motorola got married to Google etc... That leaves samsung but they had the best selling Windows Phone and Android.
  13. jmerrey's Avatar
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    #13  
    it's a little frightnening when you consider the quality of webos, and it's absolute failure in the marketplace
  14. Winterfang's Avatar
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       #14  
    Is webOS really that good? I mean, is really old.
  15. smartpatrol's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfang View Post
    Is webOS really that good? I mean, is really old.
    I think it absolutely destroys Android, and in some ways it's better than WP7 even.

    - its multitasking is awesome. Every app is a full-screen "card". You can zoom out to see all the cards, tap one to bring it back to full screen, or slide one off the top of the screen to close the app. It's so great having complete, explicit control over which apps are running. Not like Android, where you don't really know if an app is still running in the background, wasting battery and slowing your phone down.

    - no widgets. If there's something you need constant access to, just leave a card open.

    - no rooting/jailbraking necessary.

    - its notifications are still the best I've seen.

    - threaded text messaging, with the ability to choose between SMS and several different chat protocols. Mango is adopting this ability, but it will only support Facebook and Windows Live Messenger. webOS could do AIM, Google Chat, and others.

    - the touchstone charger was so cool. Pop your phone on the charger, and you have a desk clock that shows all your notifications on it as well. I believe webOS 2.0 opened up touchstone capabilities, so you could e.g. turn it into a digital photo frame or whatever.

    I still think WP7 is a better OS, but webOS was really damn good.
    starblade876 and VCI_Cell like this.
  16. Pronk's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfang View Post
    Is webOS really that good? I mean, is really old.
    My wife's ancient, underpowered, second-hand, 2-year-old Palm Pixi plus is still a better entry-level smartphone than most mid-range Android handsets on sale today are. Throw in the touchstone charger, and it's arguably *more* technologically advanced. Throw in the fact it can multitask effortlessly and it's arguably more advanced (in some ways) than WP7. And that's ALL down to WebOS.

    If someone bought the rights to the Pixi and WebOS and churned them out for peanuts and sold them at bargain basement prices as one step up from a dumbphone, I think they'd have a massive hit.
  17. starblade876's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharksandwich View Post
    I think it absolutely destroys Android, and in some ways it's better than WP7 even.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pronk View Post
    My wife's ancient, underpowered, second-hand, 2-year-old Palm Pixi plus is still a better entry-level smartphone than most mid-range Android handsets on sale today are.
    Completely agree with both. It really all started with hardware. If they were just able to offer more form factors and better designs with better materials, they'd probably be on top.
  18. ikkf's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post
    What's truly amazing is just how quickly and efficiently HP ran WebOS into the ground. A billion dollar acquisition that they did absolutely nothing with. I remember when HP said that WebOS would come installed on all their PCs. That alone would have made WebOS a dominate OS. Never happened. HP took forever to get a new phone to the market only to deliver the completely unimpressive HP Veer. HP has money but apparently didn't want to use any of it for marketing WebOS or putting forth a solid strategy.
    HP's handling of WebOS was one of the most half-assed things in the history of business.
  19. nyquistjack's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharksandwich View Post
    I think it absolutely destroys Android, and in some ways it's better than WP7 even.

    - its multitasking is awesome. Every app is a full-screen "card". You can zoom out to see all the cards, tap one to bring it back to full screen, or slide one off the top of the screen to close the app. It's so great having complete, explicit control over which apps are running. Not like Android, where you don't really know if an app is still running in the background, wasting battery and slowing your phone down.

    - no widgets. If there's something you need constant access to, just leave a card open.

    - no rooting/jailbraking necessary.

    - its notifications are still the best I've seen.

    - threaded text messaging, with the ability to choose between SMS and several different chat protocols. Mango is adopting this ability, but it will only support Facebook and Windows Live Messenger. webOS could do AIM, Google Chat, and others.

    - the touchstone charger was so cool. Pop your phone on the charger, and you have a desk clock that shows all your notifications on it as well. I believe webOS 2.0 opened up touchstone capabilities, so you could e.g. turn it into a digital photo frame or whatever.

    I still think WP7 is a better OS, but webOS was really damn good.
    As a webOS Refugee I was all set to respond in full to that question...but sharksandwich did a great job, saving me a few minutes :)

    webOS is definitely an incredible experience. One you can't trully appreciate until you've used it. It's also annoying laggy at times and has been in dire need of better hardware.

    I am curious to see what shakes out from the touchpad firesale. webOS, for the first time in its over 2 years is on the news, being clamored after and is getting real mindshare. HP is still saying they plan on putting webOS on PCs and is supposedly looking towards licensing the OS.

    Do I trust them? Not a chance. I have my touchpad for now and until HP proves themselves to be able to actually get hardware out there, WP7 is my new home for handsets.
    webOS Refugee. Now a Windows Phone 7 (HTC Arrive) refugee and an Android escapee (evo 3d) back on my original Pre for now. Looking forward to a killer device on ATT so I can dump Sprint and get back into the WP7.5 world.

    If you are a fellow webOS refugee, visit this thread for some getting started tips.

    http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-...ion/180046.htm
  20. nyquistjack's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ikkf View Post
    HP's handling of WebOS was one of the most half-assed things in the history of business.
    For you scifi geeks out there..reminds be exactly of how Fox handled Firefly...
    webOS Refugee. Now a Windows Phone 7 (HTC Arrive) refugee and an Android escapee (evo 3d) back on my original Pre for now. Looking forward to a killer device on ATT so I can dump Sprint and get back into the WP7.5 world.

    If you are a fellow webOS refugee, visit this thread for some getting started tips.

    http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-...ion/180046.htm
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  21. smartpatrol's Avatar
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    #21  
    HP says they want to license webOS, but I honestly can't see that happening for a couple reasons.

    1. Could HP really make a profit licensing it? They would never be able to charge more than $15/handset for it (that's the cost of WP7). webOS is a great OS but it's still not a complete ecosystem, and the core OS still needs some work performance-wise. HP would have to invest a lot of money in webOS with no guarantee of making it back. Lets be generous and say third parties could sell 10 million webOS phones next year. HP still would be NOWHERE near paying off their initial purchase of Palm, let alone the additional investment and support needed.

    2. Who would want to license webOS? Android is cheaper. Both Android and WP7 offer a more complete set of services, more apps, and big names behind them.

    The only possibility I could see is Samsung or HTC buying webOS completly. But even this is unlikely IMO. The most likely thing is someone will buy it just for the patents.

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  22. augustofretes's Avatar
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    #22  
    I will give my unbiased opinion here. About the question of WebOS being "really that good" the answer is no. Is a straight and utterly no. If the question had been "Was WebOS good?" it would've been a yes.

    Let me characterize this way, WebOS hardcore fans (and pardon me the following harsh comment) are delusional. WebOS had the following things on its favor when it was launched:

    1) The Card interface (their "wow" factor).
    2) Unobtrusive notifications.
    3) Synergy (as in "that's cool").
    4) A GUI design that matched that of iOS, and that seem to offer a cohesive experience Android (pre-Droid) couldn't offer.

    Time passed,

    1) is still "wow-like", but WP7 took cues.
    2) is actually against them now, it may be better than WP7 notifications (partially) but it's inferior to Android and iOS 5.x notification system (it forces you to swipe them off in order to get full screen real state again, this decision was made on smartphone platform that was consistently running on small screen devices *and* low res devices) .
    3) Has been partially implemented by iOS and Android and WP7 is superior on this anyway,
    4) WebOS has nothing on this against iOS and WP7, you could make a compelling case against Android, but nothing more.

    People is no longer "wowed" by of those, but point 1. The market and the platforms moved forward. Nobody is going to be impressed with any WebOS device, and not because of the hardware, WebOS has always been subpar on many fronts, the performance is abysmal, I'm a former WebOS supporter and I dare any WebOS fan to even open Google Maps (or Bing Maps) on their device in front of any modern smartphone user, they will literally feel sorry for him.

    The choppy scrolling and animations, and the ridiculous long time it took/take to launch apps are enough to make people look away. People is surprised by iOS, Android (recent devices, I think Android is a little choppy, and it's big presence on the market is hugely explained by Apple only launching on AT&T) and WP7 greatly because the OS is fluid.

    And no, this wasn't a hardware issue. Pre- and Pre+ use basely the same exact hardware of the iPhone 3Gs, and the speed difference is just sad. The Pre 2 was an improvement, but compare it to the iPhone 4 (similar hardware again, with WebOS running at a hilariously low resolution).

    I think WebOS had potential, but it never became an actuality (to put in the Aristotelian terms most people love), WP7 had potential, a lot, when it launched, I think that with Mango they will actualize. Both iOS and Android are the only two mobile OSes (public released OSes) that are actualities, and not mere potentialities (WP7 soon to be part of this list). In other words, WebOS always felt like a beta, an OS with good ideas poorly coded.
    Last edited by augustofretes; 08-23-2011 at 05:30 PM.
  23. nyquistjack's Avatar
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    #23  
    I'd say delusional is a little harsh. I won't deny many of us are fan-boys and are willing to look past a lot of the shortcomings. I have to disagree though that webOS doesn't still have greatness. While I am enjoying Win7 so far, there is an elegance to the card design and the notification system and even the keyboard that make the experience flow in a certain way that no other OS (desktop, mobile, etc) has managed to be.

    I do have to admit that that part of our love of the OS was always in what it could and should be. So, maaaaybe, we border on the delusional there. The lag, small app-base and being abandoned several times are hard to get through. I guess that is what has kept the community tight.

    Of course, even the hardcore have their breaking point. Granted, some are hacking their hardware to stick with the platform but some of us are finally looking to other platforms.

    Just reread your 4 points, I have to disagree on 3 of the 4.
    1) Cards are still wow. While Win7 copied it, only in the barest of sense. It's the gesture (swipe up to bring up the card, swpie up again to close, and a flow to the app switching that just feels right)

    2) I very much disagree here. Granted, losing that row of screen realestate on that tiny screen could be annoying, but the design was top notch. No matter what app I was in, even a 3d game, would allow me to see my notifications without being interrupted. Then when I am done playing, a single tap brings up all of my notifications that I can then toss away if its not important without having to open the app. There is even a patch that lets me delete email right from the notifications.

    3) Agreed, webOS had the wow with synergy and agreed it completely squandered it. Lastly agreed that Win7 crushes the competition here. I love seeing that they are actively expanding it

    4) The GUI as far as animations was and is lame, because for some damned fool reason they never hardware accelerated the thing to allow for more prettiness. The basic color pallet is pretty awful too :( But..and this is a huge but, there is a most certainly a cohesion that only Win7 competes with (and maybe even improves, this is actually the part of the OS I am most excited about, buttons be damned!!!). But all apps had the app menu in the upper left, all worked with the backswipe gesture, metatap for shortcuts across apps, swipe to delete items across the board and tap+drag to reorder stuff. The cohesion is one of its primary benefits.

    Well this turned into a novel. Anywho, thats my opinion on the matter
    webOS Refugee. Now a Windows Phone 7 (HTC Arrive) refugee and an Android escapee (evo 3d) back on my original Pre for now. Looking forward to a killer device on ATT so I can dump Sprint and get back into the WP7.5 world.

    If you are a fellow webOS refugee, visit this thread for some getting started tips.

    http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-...ion/180046.htm
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  24. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #24  
    I just have a soft spot for webOS because I was a fan of beOS a long time ago.
  25. augustofretes's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    I'd say delusional is a little harsh. I won't deny many of us are fan-boys and are willing to look past a lot of the shortcomings.
    Oh, I said *hardcore* WebOS fans, I consider myself a WebOS fan (I'm a tech fanboy, so I'm a fan of anybody who tries something new).

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    I have to disagree though that webOS doesn't still have greatness. While I am enjoying Win7 so far, there is an elegance to the card design and the notification system and even the keyboard that make the experience flow in a certain way that no other OS (desktop, mobile, etc) has managed to be.
    Certain way doesn't imply better way. WebOS workflow was good, but it wasn't, in any way I can objectively describe, better (than current platforms), except for maybe (just maybe) just type and obviously the cards. The keyboard was really bad in all devices, but at least it was very integrated (as far as I've seen, on WP7 if you start typing on the home screen nothing happens).

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    I do have to admit that that part of our love of the OS was always in what it could and should be. So, maaaaybe, we border on the delusional there. The lag, small app-base and being abandoned several times are hard to get through. I guess that is what has kept the community tight.
    Yes, it was about its potential. But truth is, WebOS barely changed from 1.0 to 2.2.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    Of course, even the hardcore have their breaking point. Granted, some are hacking their hardware to stick with the platform but some of us are finally looking to other platforms.
    I know, you were/are a fan, you expected HP to make WebOS moved forward, this didn't happen, unless you're a delusional irrational guy, you will jump ships.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    1) Cards are still wow. While Win7 copied it, only in the barest of sense. It's the gesture (swipe up to bring up the card, swpie up again to close, and a flow to the app switching that just feels right)
    I agree, I sad they took cues, not that they actually copied it. But, as technical value, I prefer iOS/WP7 model which prioritizes battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    2) I very much disagree here. Granted, losing that row of screen realestate on that tiny screen could be annoying, but the design was top notch. No matter what app I was in, even a 3d game, would allow me to see my notifications without being interrupted. Then when I am done playing, a single tap brings up all of my notifications that I can then toss away if its not important without having to open the app. There is even a patch that lets me delete email right from the notifications.
    This is part of being stuck on WebOS. Granted, even if you jumped to my currently favorite platform (WP7), you also jumped to the one which has the less stellar notification system. What you described is possible on iOS 5.x, and has been on Android since long ago. In fact, since they don't take away real screen state, they're less obtrusive.

    Let me characterize it by showing a simple usage scenario: People browser the web while listening to music. On all other platforms you can get fast access to your multimedia controls without them permanently take screen space. On WebOS, you need to choose, either you get fast access to your multimedia controls or your full screen (by means of swiping off the controls).

    Also, since the icons are colorful on a black background, they tend to be distracting. In fact, I would bet any amount of money that the usual usage pattern on WebOS is:

    i) Get notification
    ii) Automatically turn attention into the notifications, if on a hurry: swipe it off without caring much. If important: tap it and open the corresponding app.

    I think there's barely any room for "will check it later", as people do on Android.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    3) Agreed, webOS had the wow with synergy and agreed it completely squandered it. Lastly agreed that Win7 crushes the competition here. I love seeing that they are actively expanding it
    Yep, WP7 really shines on that department.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    4) The GUI as far as animations was and is lame, because for some damned fool reason they never hardware accelerated the thing to allow for more prettiness. The basic color pallet is pretty awful too :(
    I know, it's so lame.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    But..and this is a huge but, there is a most certainly a cohesion that only Win7 competes with (and maybe even improves, this is actually the part of the OS I am most excited about, buttons be damned!!!). But all apps had the app menu in the upper left, all worked with the backswipe gesture, metatap for shortcuts across apps, swipe to delete items across the board and tap+drag to reorder stuff. The cohesion is one of its primary benefits.
    WP7 native apps are as consistent as it gets. There is less consistency on 3rd parties, I agree. However, WebOS had some (let me remark: some, most were fine) consistently bad designs, as the menu you just described, it was a bit of Palm OS era thinking inserted into a modern platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyquistjack View Post
    Well this turned into a novel. Anywho, thats my opinion on the matter
    Glad you shared it. I think WebOS was good, and it had a lot of potential. But many WebOS (again) hardcore fans were really delusional and denied giving credit to any other OS ever coded.
    Last edited by augustofretes; 08-24-2011 at 12:59 AM.
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