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  1. Kid251822's Avatar
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       #1  
    I recently bough the first Samsung Focus unlocked and am residing in India, and I was wondering if Microsoft would allow the Apollo update for all WP7 phones, or just restrict it for a few selected ones..?
  2. palandri's Avatar
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    #2  
    We hope to all get Apollo, but Microsoft hasn't release a lot of information about Apollo. All we can really do is wait and see what happens.
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  3. HJKED's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid251822 View Post
    I recently bough the first Samsung Focus unlocked and am residing in India, and I was wondering if Microsoft would allow the Apollo update for all WP7 phones, or just restrict it for a few selected ones..?
    I agree with what @palandri said. MS has not released any official information about Apollo update. And i think that it will allow its Apollo update (once released) to all. May be a little bit latter in Asian countries.
  4. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #4  
    Judging previous previous experiences, all devices should be updated, but I guess we won't really know until we know more about what Apollo brings to the table...
  5. fisci's Avatar
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    #5  
    I would say all...

    They don't want to turn into android
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #6  
    If it's WP8, then I would guess, "no."

    WP8 is likely to have its own set of minimum system specs.

    But I would guess that there would be some sort of update that adds in similar functionality. It's my guess that WP7 and WP8 will simultaneously exist in the market for a while. The UI will be similar, but WP8 will have some functionality that requires a different hardware spec.
  7. fisci's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reflexx View Post
    If it's WP8, then I would guess, "no."

    WP8 is likely to have its own set of minimum system specs.

    But I would guess that there would be some sort of update that adds in similar functionality. It's my guess that WP7 and WP8 will simultaneously exist in the market for a while. The UI will be similar, but WP8 will have some functionality that requires a different hardware spec.
    in a sense that's a bad move...

    Then it becomes fragmented and is no different from what they were supposedly trying to avoid
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  8. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #8  
    I think it's fragmented if they try to keep the same exact OS and updates across devices of different specs. Because then you have two completely different user experiences with the same exact OS.

    If they have two different and clear product lines, then it's easier for developers.

    I don't expect WP7 development to halt when WP8 comes out. I think that it will mirror most of the features that it can from WP8.

    Then again, this is all speculation on my part.
  9. J4rrod's Avatar
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    #9  
    Actually, having WP8 NOT on all devices would be fragmentation. Going by the logic of "WP8 on all devices is fragmentation," then we already have fragmentation with WP7.5 & the first and second gen devices, which is clearly not true.

    MS will handle WP8 just like WP7.5, all devices will get the update, but, just like with 7.5, they will start phasing out the older devices that weren't built for WP8 by eventually halting their sales, just like what's happening now with the Quantum and Focus.

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
  10. fisci's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reflexx View Post
    I think it's fragmented if they try to keep the same exact OS and updates across devices of different specs. Because then you have two completely different user experiences with the same exact OS.

    If they have two different and clear product lines, then it's easier for developers.

    I don't expect WP7 development to halt when WP8 comes out. I think that it will mirror most of the features that it can from WP8.

    Then again, this is all speculation on my part.
    how does that make any sense?

    IOS 5 runs on iPhone 3gs, 4 and 4s...

    They all have different specs.

    How would it running on all devices be fragmentation, that line of thought is hilariously flawed
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  11. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #11  
    I say this because I'm assuming that there will be changes in the kernel for WP8. Changes that make WP8 a new OS code-wise. Not really a traditional update.

    If WP8 is fundamentally different on what it is based on, then updating existing devices would be extremely difficult.

    iOS can do this across multiple devices because it is all based on the same code core code base. If WP8 has a kernel that is based off of Windows 8, then it is actually a different OS. It will look like the same OS to customers, but it wouldn't actually be the same under the hood.

    As for fragmentation... Apple does have fragmentation. It's just not a big issue because Android's is such a mess comparatively.

    WP7 would have its own set of updates that perhaps mimics the features of WP8. But I don't imagine it will be the same.
    Last edited by Winning Guy; 12-04-2011 at 02:13 PM.
  12. littlesteelo16's Avatar
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    #12  
    People seem to talk about 'Windows Phone 8' as if it is a completely different operating system. I doubt Microsoft will follow the same scheme as they do with Windows, with each version being a completely different OS, but do what Apple and Google do, with version 8 being a large update to the existing OS, like iOS 5 is to version 4.

    What devices will get it, we won't know for a while. The 2nd gen devices will get it, and it is possible the 1st gen devices will too. Whether they decide to limit features for the launch devices is their choice, but that sounds more like Apple, not Microsoft.
  13. fisci's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by littlesteelo16 View Post
    People seem to talk about 'Windows Phone 8' as if it is a completely different operating system. I doubt Microsoft will follow the same scheme as they do with Windows, with each version being a completely different OS, but do what Apple and Google do, with version 8 being a large update to the existing OS, like iOS 5 is to version 4.

    What devices will get it, we won't know for a while. The 2nd gen devices will get it, and it is possible the 1st gen devices will too. Whether they decide to limit features for the launch devices is their choice, but that sounds more like Apple, not Microsoft.
    agreed...

    Are they going to release a completely different os each time that won't work on earlier hardware?

    If so I'm going to jump ship.

    I can't see this being the case, I would say it will definitely be more like IOS 4 to 5, not like windows mobile 6.5 to wp7.

    I think people would get annoyed if the os keeps getting rewritten from scratch, and it would destroy their already weak market presence.
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  14. littlesteelo16's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by djdtox View Post
    agreed...

    Are they going to release a completely different os each time that won't work on earlier hardware?

    If so I'm going to jump ship.

    I can't see this being the case, I would say it will definitely be more like IOS 4 to 5, not like windows mobile 6.5 to wp7.

    I think people would get annoyed if the os keeps getting rewritten from scratch, and it would destroy their already weak market presence.
    Exactly, the jump from winmo 6.5 to Windows Phone 7 was huge because they literally built it from scratch. I think the fact they started off calling it Windows Phone 7 has caused a bit of confusion. Notice now how they only refer to it as 'Windows Phone'. They are only using version numbers from 7 onwards because they started that way.
    Think of it like this. Mango is version 2 of the Windows Phone OS, and Apollo will be version 3. Tango will be 2.5.
  15. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #15  
    I expect it will be a new OS at its most base level. The kernel. WP doesn't exist in a vacuum. And with the next version of Windows being able to run on ARM, the convergence will happen eventually. If not by WP8, then by WP9. The customer may never notice. Because the UI will likely remain consistent.

    One reason I believe that this is the path that will take place is MS's insistence on the use of managed code for all apps and games in WP7. I believe this is because a change will be made at the kernel level that would affect anything written in native code. Having all WP7 apps in managed code ensures that compatibility could be maintained when the core OS is changed.

    I expect WP8 to have apps and games based off of something similar to WinRT. With a .NET layer on top for compatibility with old apps. Then once that's been completed, we'll see a future update process that more mimics iOS's model. Because there will be no more kernel changes. We'll also start to see some more native code allowed for things like game engines. Or at least direct access to DirectX.
  16. palandri's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by littlesteelo16 View Post
    ...Think of it like this. Mango is version 2 of the Windows Phone OS, and Apollo will be version 3. Tango will be 2.5.
    That's what we are hoping for Mango> Tango> Apollo.
  17. fisci's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reflexx View Post
    I expect it will be a new OS at its most base level. The kernel. WP doesn't exist in a vacuum. And with the next version of Windows being able to run on ARM, the convergence will happen eventually. If not by WP8, then by WP9. The customer may never notice. Because the UI will likely remain consistent.

    One reason I believe that this is the path that will take place is MS's insistence on the use of managed code for all apps and games in WP7. I believe this is because a change will be made at the kernel level that would affect anything written in native code. Having all WP7 apps in managed code ensures that compatibility could be maintained when the core OS is changed.

    I expect WP8 to have apps and games based off of something similar to WinRT. With a .NET layer on top for compatibility with old apps. Then once that's been completed, we'll see a future update process that more mimics iOS's model. Because there will be no more kernel changes. We'll also start to see some more native code allowed for things like game engines. Or at least direct access to DirectX.
    updating the kernel doesn't mean older phones won't be able to run it, or won't get updated though.

    Seriously if Microsoft does this, I'd say windows phone will be toast...

    Devices just came out with mango, can you imagine them not getting updated to Apollo?

    Inb4 ****storm
  18. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by djdtox View Post
    updating the kernel doesn't mean older phones won't be able to run it, or won't get updated though.

    Seriously if Microsoft does this, I'd say windows phone will be toast...

    Devices just came out with mango, can you imagine them not getting updated to Apollo?

    Inb4 ****storm
    You're assuming that users would even know.

    I actually don't think that Apollo and WP8 will actually be the same thing. I'm guessing that Apollo will be an update that brings WP7 to feature parity as WP8.

    Though, marketing-wise, it may be smart to call it a WP8 update. Even if it isn't WP8 under the hood.
  19. fisci's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reflexx View Post
    You're assuming that users would even know.

    I actually don't think that Apollo and WP8 will actually be the same thing. I'm guessing that Apollo will be an update that brings WP7 to feature parity as WP8.

    Though, marketing-wise, it may be smart to call it a WP8 update. Even if it isn't WP8 under the hood.
    how would you not know that your phone doesn't get updated or cannot run some apps?

    What you're saying is starting to lose coherency
  20. martin_strahilovski's Avatar
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    #20  
    But at least, everyone will get Tango :D
    aubreyq likes this.
  21. littlesteelo16's Avatar
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    #21  
    I think there will be compatibility between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8, but it will be in the form of apps/games, and perhaps other software. Changing Windows Phone from a Windows CE based OS to an NT based OS seems like a pointless effort. Thinking now though, If they do change it, it will not be until Windows 8 is released, and I think Apollo will come before that. So Apollo and 8 are probably two separate things.
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    #22  
    Hal Berenson made an excellent article on WP8 and why changing the kernel is a great idea: http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/window...s-or-siblings/
    He also believes that WP8 will still work with 1st Gen phones, seeing as how a 1Ghz CPU and 512MB RAM is sufficient.

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express
  23. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by djdtox View Post
    how would you not know that your phone doesn't get updated or cannot run some apps?

    What you're saying is starting to lose coherency
    You may not know that the code isn't the same. A WP7 device that is updated to WP8 feature parity may not be the same as an actual WP8 device. For one, if there is any use of native code access granted with WP8, it may not work with a device that has different underlying code.

    You may not understand what I'm saying. But it's not incoherent. It's just a different opinion of the direction this platform will take.
  24. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by EA575 View Post
    Hal Berenson made an excellent article on WP8 and why changing the kernel is a great idea: Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8: Cousins or Siblings | Hal's (Im)Perfect Vision
    He also believes that WP8 will still work with 1st Gen phones, seeing as how a 1Ghz CPU and 512MB RAM is sufficient.

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express
    Excellent article. And yes, when I say Windows 8 kernel, I do mean Windows NT.

    I see the possibility of current devices running full blown WP8 even after a kernel switch. But it would break any apps that use some sort of native code access. Like what some of the carriers and manufacturers have released. So it wouldn't really be an update. It would be a full replacement.
  25. fisci's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Reflexx View Post
    You may not know that the code isn't the same. A WP7 device that is updated to WP8 feature parity may not be the same as an actual WP8 device. For one, if there is any use of native code access granted with WP8, it may not work with a device that has different underlying code.

    You may not understand what I'm saying. But it's not incoherent. It's just a different opinion of the direction this platform will take.
    "WP8 is likely to have its own set of minimum system specs.

    But I would guess that there would be some sort of update that adds in similar functionality. It's my guess that WP7 and WP8 will simultaneously exist in the market for a while."

    What you're saying is that there will be wp8 and wp7 that has exactly the same features but different code, and can't run most wp8 apps lol..

    Sorry but I definitely dont agree, and hope Microsoft is smarter than to start down that sort of road
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