So I was at "On The Verge" and John Gruber Said That Windows Phone...

[electricbopeep]

I was at the live taping of On The Verge (The Verge's monthly produced show) tonight and John Gruber was the featured guest. Towards the end of his interview, Joshua Topolsky asked Gruber what companies, besides Apple, are doing great/interesting things. Gruber was unresponsive so Topolsky threw Google out as an option - Gruber nonchalantly said that he's not interested in what they're doing. After a bit of back and forth on Google's products and services, Topolsky then throws Microsoft out there and - surprise - Gruber enthusiastically responds in in the affirmative, adding that Windows Phone 7 is great and the Metro UI is very interesting. He also stated that he doesn't know why it's selling so poorly and that he thinks if WP7 was introduced at the same time as the original iPhone that the smartphone landscape would be very different than it is today because WP7 is a compelling choice.



I don't have verbatim quotes but that's the jist of what he said. I figured I would share because Gruber, who's both reviled and beloved, obviously has a very discerning and particular sense of taste (or at least he thinks so). His compliments, therefore, seem to speak to WP7's innovation and quality user experience. The show should be released in a few days, so you can check out the full conversation then and decide for yourself.



Sent from my Samsung Focus using Board Express

 

[Duvi]

Nice to hear and I agree with his statements... I'm not interested in anything Google is doing with Android either.

 

[dakuma]

Sent from my Samsung Focus! Board Express Rocks! WP7 4ever!

 

[BostonSammy]

It's not selling as well because the carriers aren't trained to sell it.

 

[Duvi]

It's not selling as well because the carriers aren't trained to sell it.

Carriers don't really have to be trained because there really was no real training for the iPhone. IMO, a lot of it was due to the headstart that Apple and Google got. WebOS is a great platform, but they couldn't survive because of the headstart as well. RIM has corporate and those that utilize the messaging, keyboards, great battery life and/or always-on capabilities.

It's a steep road for Microsoft to climb and although I feel WP is 100Xs better than Android, it may take a while before WP actually catches on.

MS probably wants to perfect it, but Skype is an example of an app that they have control over that should be a priority in getting out there.

 

[Kahuna Cowboy]

I do not like Android either, I'd rather have a dumb phone honestly.

But WP is not selling well for many reasons. Way late to the dance, carriers spiffing Android rather than WP, The name Windows carries a not so great connotation in many people's minds, warmed over hardware specs (no real hook on the hardware side of the equation), all the phones look like an Android, and finally, the app support is still thin. Even though that is growing, comparable apps cost a lot more in WP then do on iOS or Android.

It does take more than a slick UI to sell a platform, WebOS proved that.

 

[N8ter]

I do not like Android either, I'd rather have a dumb phone honestly.

But WP is not selling well for many reasons. Way late to the dance, carriers spiffing Android rather than WP, The name Windows carries a not so great connotation in many people's minds, warmed over hardware specs (no real hook on the hardware side of the equation), all the phones look like an Android, and finally, the app support is still thin. Even though that is growing, comparable apps cost a lot more in WP then do on iOS or Android.

It does take more than a slick UI to sell a platform, WebOS proved that.

Biggest problem I have is the lack of Apps and the terrible stock Camera App (at last on my HD7).

Really, I comb the marketplace and I simply cannot find many apps worth even downloading. I downloaded about a dozen just to make my app list look "fuller," but I never use them.

Apps. Apps. Apps. That is the biggest point of frustration with the platform.

I've already spent more than $100 on paid Android Apps. Unless the App Market improves (with decent apps from reputable developers, not more basement projects) and the prices are put in check (people are still charging more for WP7 apps to try to take advantage of the lack of competition currently on the platform) it will be hard to get a WP7 device in a couple months when I drop T-Mobile and go back to AT&T.

 

[electricbopeep]

I agree with almost all of the points made about why it's not selling. Another point that Josh brought up that I've been saying since day 1 is something that kahuna touches on - being late to the game means that WP7 is vulnerable to the market forces of the industry. Because most people have 2 year contracts, consumer buying patterns for phones differ from other consumer electronics. So since iOS and Android have more marketshare/mindshare AND people don't want to pay an ETf just to try something new (esp something that falls short in apps and hardware) it's very hard to gain traction.

Also, another point that I've been making since day 1 still stands today, unfortunately. Many consumers, esp those who MS is targeting, buy their phones at the carrier store and make their purchasing decision there too. Even when you set aside the carrier sales person issues, there's still another big problem. Since WP7 strengths rest on personal and dynamic content, an empty windows phone is a piss-poor way to showcase the os. One of the things that was so great about the WP7 night market event is that the phones on display were loaded up with personal content (people hub, mail, xbox live,etc) and media (music, videos) AND were receiving texts - the phones felt alive. Meanwhile, when I go to the ATT store (WP7 premiere partner, mind you), there is NO content on the phone aside from random pictures people have taken in the store. If you had never seen Windows Phone in action, would you be impressed by an empty phone? There has to be some way for MS to deploy a demo mode on these phones because right now, the in-store experience doesn'tplay to their strengths and isn't compelling.

Sent from my Samsung Focus using Board Express

 

[Kahuna Cowboy]

Heck, last time I was at AT&T they did not even have any live Windows Phones. Just non working demo units with a sticker of the pin menu. Lol

 

[aubreyq]

I agree with the points about carriers not pushing WP in the way of store displays and content on phones. This needs to improve because a lot of people DO go into stores not knowing what they want, like some of you have said.

I'm not a fan of Gruber but at least he doesn't hide the fact that he is all about Apple. I mean, that's how he makes his living. Like him, I don't care much for what Google is doing with Android.

BTW, if you want to hear some non-bull, interesting counterpoints to John Gruber, go to Reactions to Gruber

 

[aubreyq]

Oh yeah, and thanks electricbobeep for this thread.

 

[Pronk]

I broadly agree with the above, but I think it needs stating - iOS and Android didn't have a head start. They just brought out better and more advanced products, and there's no reason here why anyone should feel for Microsoft as if there's an injustice being done. If WP7 never gets the market share it deserves, of course it'll be a shame - but it's not WebOS over again. That was a case of a company with awesome ideas but just too small and without enough money to put them into play fast enough or with enough cash to develop AAA hardware and get bulk orders of it.

Microsoft, however, aren't a small company like Palm. Windows Mobile was around for years before either iOS or Android turned up and there was absolutely no reason why Microsoft couldn't have come up with "the iPhone" - no reason other than they just didn't bother and didn't think they had to bother. Heck, Android was a copy of the other previously dominant player who's behaviour was much the same, Blackberry OS, that was then remodelled to copy iOS (an issue that may one day be its downfall, because it needs a core rewrite or it'll never work in quite the way it's supposed to). Microsoft simply failed to react anywhere near fast enough to the changing landscape and assumed the status quo would remain, in much the same way RIM thought they would just continue to dominate based solely on the fact they had before. That's not a business plan, that's arrogance. Thankfully MS have now reacted, and with a great product, and let's hope they've learned their lesson and give it the support it needs and deserves. But if it fails, it's ultimately not going to be Apple or Google's fault for blowing the smartphone market wide open.

 

[gibbyhome]

I agree with almost all of the points made about why it's not selling. Another point that Josh brought up that I've been saying since day 1 is something that kahuna touches on - being late to the game means that WP7 is vulnerable to the market forces of the industry. Because most people have 2 year contracts, consumer buying patterns for phones differ from other consumer electronics. So since iOS and Android have more marketshare/mindshare AND people don't want to pay an ETf just to try something new (esp something that falls short in apps and hardware) it's very hard to gain traction.

Also, another point that I've been making since day 1 still stands today, unfortunately. Many consumers, esp those who MS is targeting, buy their phones at the carrier store and make their purchasing decision there too. Even when you set aside the carrier sales person issues, there's still another big problem. Since WP7 strengths rest on personal and dynamic content, an empty windows phone is a piss-poor way to showcase the os. One of the things that was so great about the WP7 night market event is that the phones on display were loaded up with personal content (people hub, mail, xbox live,etc) and media (music, videos) AND were receiving texts - the phones felt alive. Meanwhile, when I go to the ATT store (WP7 premiere partner, mind you), there is NO content on the phone aside from random pictures people have taken in the store. If you had never seen Windows Phone in action, would you be impressed by an empty phone? There has to be some way for MS to deploy a demo mode on these phones because right now, the in-store experience doesn'tplay to their strengths and isn't compelling.

Sent from my Samsung Focus using Board Express

I would agree that alot of the problems are carriers not pushing the product, but if you have been following Nokia over seas they are really doing good pushing the product and selling !!
I could not beleave the line I saw in I think it was singapore that must of had 1 thousand people in line in the rain to get or pre order a nokia lumia 800 phone and alot has to do with Advertising and I'm sure some with Nokia brand name over seas.. I think that when you see nokia over in the US then you will start to see Microsoft slowly climb into the race.. and
on a side note I have a friend that I talk to in the mall that works for Tmobile and he is a bid android person and he writes apps for android, and as you know Tmobile pritty much sells all androids.. but yesterday he pulled out a Windows Phone out of his pocket and started asking me questions !! I almost droped dead, he told be that his district manager came in and had him sign something that he would be using a Windows Phone for 3 Months and he also had a binder of what was sold and other things about the phone ..
Now granted I had to show him a bunch of stuff but he is still un impressed with windows phone and he told me it really doesnt do much and said that the android does so much more .. Hmmmm .. he is going to be a tough nut to crack.. but I'm going to try to have lunch at the mall every day and answer as many questions as I can.

While I was there, there was a person retuning a the new windows phone on tmobile, I thought it was a new sale but I was wrong. I asked the person what was wrong with it ..
she told me nothing, it was just that her husband and an android and basicly had her return it for a galixy s2