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  1. anond's Avatar
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       #1  
    It's been depressing to read this thread, albeit a rumors one, on reddit. Apparently, WP7 devices have an entirely different kernel from what is being developed for WP8 and so although WP7 apps will work on WP8, the devices running the OS currently will not get an upgrade to WP8.

    I feel absolutely cheated. Just bought a WP7 device two weeks back not only because it was an OS I loved so much but also specifically because I was sure the value proposition of this device will grow multifold once WP8 released which I was sure will bring greater integration between the phone and the computer.

    Any insider info folks? Has Microsoft screwed me into buying their phone ahead of schedule?
    - Anon D
  2. enahs555's Avatar
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    #2  
    It is a little early to tell. But, most of the new features announced for WP8 are hardware specific; so you will not benefit from most of them without a new device; so those features are irrelevant with regards to old phones.

    As far as app compatibility, and the software OS features. Who knows? We might still get those on old phones, it is to early to tell and nothing as officially been announced yet. I suspect we will.
    DaHui623 and SLO Eclipse like this.
  3. speedtouch's Avatar
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    #3  
    Anond, I sure hope that information is wrong. I just bought my wife a Lumia 710 and it *better* get WP8. I will be highly ticked if it does not.
    Lumia 635
    anond likes this.
  4. trickym81's Avatar
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    #4  
    It's possible that Windows 8 will be brand new and that the current phones won't upgrade. That sucks. However, it won't be out until the end of this year so if you just bought a phone, it will be "top of the line" in terms of Windows Phone for one year.
    WP7 will likely be supported (and apps may even be developed) for another year or so.
    Most people get new smartphones every two years, so you'll only be "behind" for one year.
    It sucks, but it's not the worst thing ever.
    It could really upset a lot of customers though.

    I can see WP8 having some features & apps that WP7 doesn't have, but I don't think WP7 will be abandoned either.
    willied, tissotti and anond like this.
  5. johndd34's Avatar
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    #5  
    If we all read the release correctly from MS it said that it is ADDING support for higher end devices. Im sure the OS will come to "older" devices since WP8 will support them. I am really not too concerned because if MS has a brain, they will release it to older devices if they want more people to get Windows 8. But then again, it is JUST a RUMOR, so lets stop speculating until we get some concrete news!
    snowmutt likes this.
  6. ninjaap's Avatar
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    #6  
    This is the main reason why I'm thinking twice about purchasing the upcoming Nokia 900. I'm sure a lot of people are thinking the same and could hurt their launch numbers.
  7. trickym81's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaap View Post
    This is the main reason why I'm thinking twice about purchasing the upcoming Nokia 900. I'm sure a lot of people are thinking the same and could hurt their launch numbers.
    That's probably the worst part about this news/rumour, that it will dissuade people from buying WP7 devices. Consequently, if fewer people buy WP7 devices, it will be easier for Microsoft to ignore WP7 users when WP8 comes out.
    Lord Panos likes this.
  8. speedtouch's Avatar
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    #8  
    You know, there's a term for this situation. One where a company announces a new product coming down the line in the future, but the problem is this announcement kills off any adoption of their current products. Man, what is that called? I saw the term for it just a few weeks ago in fact.
    Lumia 635
  9. smrk's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by speedtouch View Post
    You know, there's a term for this situation. One where a company announces a new product coming down the line in the future, but the problem is this announcement kills off any adoption of their current products. Man, what is that called? I saw the term for it just a few weeks ago in fact.
    speedtouch,

    The term is 'Osborne'

    If memory serves me correctly the term/phrase came from early in the PC history when the maker of the Osborne computer (Adam Osbourne) which was a very popular machine at the time previewed several machines that were superior to the existing 'Osbourne 1'

    Sales of the Osbourne 1 tanked as everyone waited for the new machines to come out, this caused the company to fold before the new machine came out.
    Thanked by:
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  10. speedtouch's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by smrk View Post
    speedtouch,

    The term is 'Osborne'

    If memory serves me correctly the term/phrase came from early in the PC history when the maker of the Osborne computer (Adam Osbourne) which was a very popular machine at the time previewed several machines that were superior to the existing 'Osbourne 1'

    Sales of the Osbourne 1 tanked as everyone waited for the new machines to come out, this caused the company to fold before the new machine came out.
    That's exactly it. Exactly. Thank you. The "Osbourne Effect".
    Lumia 635
  11. jtn05's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaap View Post
    This is the main reason why I'm thinking twice about purchasing the upcoming Nokia 900. I'm sure a lot of people are thinking the same and could hurt their launch numbers.
    yea i feel the same way. I wanted to get the 900 but i will just keep my focus and wait for wp8.
    Last edited by jtn05; 02-03-2012 at 06:02 PM.
  12. trickym81's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtn05 View Post
    yea i feel the same way. I wanted to get the 900 but i will just wait for wp8 now.
    And there's the problem. People who are interested in WP7 will have done enough research to know that they should probably wait for WP8 to come out. People who haven't done the research but decide to try WP7 will feel burned. And people who don't care will pretend not to care.

    That's the worst part for current phone users: The whole ecosystem could be on hold for almost a year with very little growth because everyone's waiting...
    anond likes this.
  13. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtn05 View Post
    yea i feel the same way. I wanted to get the 900 but i will just wait for wp8 now.
    If WP8 isn't out until the early part of next year, I'll still be getting the 910 (running Tango) if it's released by May.

    No one is being cheated, IMO. WP7 will still be app compatible and running as smoothly as ever. It's just, eventually, things have to move on. If I have the 910 for a year and miss the first batch of Win 8 phones, it'll only means that I'll have an even better Win 8 phone come upgrade time.
    Google - "Don't be evil. . . much!"
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  14. smrk's Avatar
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    #14  
    As to weather or not the existing phones will be updated to WP8 I personally think it will be up to the phone manufacturers.

    Microsoft will in all likelyhood create a build of WP8 that will work on the existing WP7 core hardware.

    It will be up to the manufacturers to write the drivers for the hardware around the core, and the likely hood of that happening depends on the manufacturer.

    I suspect Nokia will, it would look bad for the priority MS partner to come out with phones that are obsolete in eight months.

    I don't know about HTC or LG, but Samsung has a very poor history of keeping up with their Android phones and had lots of issues updating their different versions of the original flash.

    Dell?? Well they have pretty much dropped out of the phone market at the moment which doesn't bode well, but they did just release the 8107 build for unlocked phones out of the blue so who knows.

    The smaller companies ZTE, Acer?? small volumes of sales and small storage, have my doubts
  15. trickym81's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Supes View Post
    No one is being cheated, IMO. WP7 will still be app compatible and running as smoothly as ever. It's just, eventually, things have to move on. If I have the 910 for a year and miss the first batch of Win 8 phones, it'll only means that I'll have an even better Win 8 phone come upgrade time.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrk View Post
    As to weather or not the existing phones will be updated to WP8 I personally think it will be up to the phone manufacturers.

    Microsoft will in all likelyhood create a build of WP8 that will work on the existing WP7 core hardware.
    Agreed. I'm really glad I just bought the Lumia 710 outright. I was planning on waiting for the 900 (and signing one of Rogers' deadly three-year contracts) but I decided against it due to the 710's $255 price.
  16. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by trickym81 View Post
    Agreed. I'm really glad I just bought the Lumia 710 outright. I was planning on waiting for the 900 (and signing one of Rogers' deadly three-year contracts) but I decided against it due to the 710's $255 price.
    I'm still tempted by the 710. It's a damn good smart phone at that price.
    Google - "Don't be evil. . . much!"
  17. Pronk's Avatar
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    #17  
    If this turns out to be true, and further only some or no phones are upgradeable, I'm done with WP. Simple as that. If real, this decision must have been made long enough ago that they knew with 100% certainty there'd be people buying phones that'd be end of life and un-upgradeable in less than 6 months. That's worse than Android.

    Even though it doesn't affect me directly, having won my phone, I refuse to support a company that behaves that way to its paying customers - and I bet I won't be the only one.

    Here's hoping it's just paranoid rumour.
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  18. selfcreation's Avatar
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    #18  
    WP7.5 devices and (pre-nodo devices as well ) will all get WP8 (Apollo) ,, MS already confirmed this in MANY interviews.

    not even gona bother reading the rest.

    h
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  19. #19  
    All the time Nokia and MS have spent railing against the fragmentation of Android, only to fragment their own OS less than a year later? Unlikely. I personally think the purpose of Tango, with optimization for lower spec, is to lay the foundation for Apollo, with its multicore support, to still run butter-smooth on 1st and2nd Gen handsets.
    snowmutt and Big Supes like this.
  20. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pronk View Post
    If this turns out to be true, and further only some or no phones are upgradeable, I'm done with WP. Simple as that. If real, this decision must have been made long enough ago that they knew with 100% certainty there'd be people buying phones that'd be end of life and un-upgradeable in less than 6 months. That's worse than Android.

    Even though it doesn't affect me directly, having won my phone, I refuse to support a company that behaves that way to its paying customers - and I bet I won't be the only one.

    Here's hoping it's just paranoid rumour.
    I'm betting all WP7 phones will be updated to WP8... hence the 4 new screen resolutions.
    Google - "Don't be evil. . . much!"
  21. theefman's Avatar
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    #21  
    Not sure why I would believe anyone from that discussion over anything just as unofficial stated anywhere else because the truth is we do not know the first thing about what MS's plans are. Common sense though says Nokia, HTC, and Microsoft wont be going about touting devices like the Titan II or Lumia 900 if their shelf life is effectively 6 months.

    And wasnt this the same BS we heard before Mango came out? And what about devs, are they supposed to wait till new devices are out before building WP8 apps to take advantage of things like NFC? As with Mango I fully expect all devices including gen 1 to get the update but older devices wont be able to take advantage of the newer hardware capabilities. Just like everything else till now, MS is taking the time to execute well rather than execute quickly.

    Just remember how MS dumbfounded everyone with the Mango rollout, dont think they dont know what's at stake and will be careful not to emulate android's update failures. Whether its Apollo or Apollo-lite, we will all get some update.
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  22. speedtouch's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Se1fcr3ation View Post
    WP7.5 devices and (pre-nodo devices as well ) will all get WP8 (Apollo) ,, MS already confirmed this in MANY interviews.

    not even gona bother reading the rest.

    h
    Thanks, brother! I'm very, very new to the WP7 universe, so I did not know this information. Would you be so kind as to give us a link?
    Lumia 635
  23. trickym81's Avatar
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    #23  
    If all current WP7 phones are going to get WP8, Microsoft should definitely come out and say so in concrete terms right away. Even if they've said it before, they need to say it again. This rumour will seriously hurt them if people start to hear that buying a WP7 phone right now will guarantee that your phone will be obsolete in six to eight months.
    AndreiD67 likes this.
  24. selfcreation's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by speedtouch View Post
    Thanks, brother! I'm very, very new to the WP7 universe, so I did not know this information. Would you be so kind as to give us a link?
    no worrys, i tryed to find the interview but i couldnt.

    but from memory: in a Interview with NOKIA's CEO , and the fact that NOKIA has access to CORE programing ( witch could cause fragmentation of the OS )

    Balmer (MS) and Stephen Elop (NOKIA ceo) both said that they where not going to dramatically change any of the core programing to specifically prevent a OS fragmentation like Android is dealing with at the moment,

    its not set in stone, but every thing they say suggest that they WILL update all the phones.

    1. CEO saying /talking about preventing this in interviews ( At CES 2012 Las Vegas).

    2. they talk about tango and how it will *bridge* different hardware/software compatibility problems ( one can only assume that its for Apollo)

    3. support for both MUlty AND single core ( before and after Apollo )

    4. support for multiple screen resolution. ( again before and after Apollo )

    5. i think its gona be more like an Iphone .. fraged os arround WP9-10

    6. and the fact that WP8 might use different kernel ,really doesn't matter.. **** you could install ANDROID OS on a WP if you knew how.. lol... (worked for MS hehe ) so no reason why they couldn't COMPLETE change the code... WHIPE the OS clean off your phone and re-install the new kennels/OS

    sorta like duel-booting Windows on a mac. anything is possible,.

    any ways, fraged OS normally ( 90% of the time ) is caused by OEMs chaging the core programing and simply preventing it from being compatible with the next OS update... witch is not something that is happening on WP at the moment ( maybe in the future cause NOKIA is allowed. to change it... ) but not right now.

    bottom line , i dont think we need to worry YET!

    and it be stupid on MS's part to force people to get new phones this early in the OS's life. because of a stupid update. most of us are still on the first WP that came out Q4 of 2010 ..

    i think that first GEN phones up to the NOKIA 900 will basically become what we call * LOW END * devices for low budget clients. ( after Apollo) and any WP8 devices will become the next COOL HOT TOYS! lol. ( at 800-900$ , lol )
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 02-03-2012 at 05:57 PM.
    If your looking for Information, be sure to check out: WindowsPhone: Getting started!
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    jaded skies likes this.
  25. alpinestars1z's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Se1fcr3ation View Post
    6. and the fact that WP8 might use different kennel ,really doesn't matter.. **** you could install ANDROID OS on a WP if you knew how.. lol... (worked for MS hehe ) so no reason why they couldn't COMPLETE change the code... WHIPE the OS clean off your phone and re-install the new kennels/OS

    sorta like duel-booting Windows on a mac. anything is possible,.
    Yeah, I don't think a different kernel makes your phone un-upgradable. The WP8 kernel is based on Windows 8, which remember, is able to run on both x86 (Intel/AMD processors in your PC) and ARM (what's in mobile devices). Our devices have Qualcomm Snapdragon which uses the ARM architecture, so there's no reason we shouldn't be able to get WP8.

    I mean look, I installed Mac OS X on my PC. How? Because Mac OS X is designed to run on x86 hardware (Intel) which is also what Windows 7 runs on.
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