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View Poll Results: Do you think 1st gen (or 1.5 gen) phones will recieve Apollo?

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  • No.

    6 13.33%
  • Yes All Phones

    16 35.56%
  • Yes but only 1.5 gen.

    15 33.33%
  • Yes but not 256mb phones

    8 17.78%
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  1.    #1  
    Tell me why or why not in your comments.
  2. GB330033's Avatar
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    #2  
    I voted for all phones. Why?

    I'm ignoring what has been reported and going with my gut feeling. This is Microsoft, they do software. This is the company that watched Apple steal away marketshare in the desktop realm when they greatly increased hardware requirements and complicated upgrade paths for XP to Vista. What did they do with 7? REDUCED the hardware requirements and made it so virtually every computer on the planet could run Win7.

    Now we look at phones, where Microsoft previously made a "clean break" upgrade from WM6.5 to WP7 and upset a lot of core fans. Now they've picked up newer trendier fans, and you're telling me they're going to **** them off too? Unlikely.

    It just doesn't make sense that WP7 has been designed to a dead-end. Especially not for a software company. They've watched Apple upgrade old devices to new software (3GS to iOS5 comes to mind) and surely they've thought "We can do that, but better". They've watched Google anger many of their users with "fragmentation". They're fighting from behind, and won't do something that will only set them back more.

    Plus, are they REALLY going to dead-end the Lumia 900 like this? Why even bother releasing it if its basically going to be DOA?

    Anyway, those are just the thoughts I've been having throughout this whole saga. And everytime someone reports that current devices won't get WP8, I react like this:
  3. mparker's Avatar
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    #3  
    I voted no, for a number of reasons including Microsoft's weaselly non-denial. New kernel means at the very least new device drivers and firmware and testing which means a lot of extra work from the manufacturers with little return since so few Gen 1 and 1.5 handsets have been sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by GB330033 View Post
    This is the company that watched Apple steal away marketshare in the desktop realm
    During that time period Apple also orphaned large numbers of their installed base, first by switching from OS9 to OSX, then by dropping Carbon support completely from OSX, then by switching from PowerPC to X86. Yet Apple not only survived but prospered.

    Meanwhile Microsoft has been increasingly hampered by the need to support legacy Windows (desktop) features and systems, and watched Apple as they cut legacy support and remained nimble and prospered. Windows 8 and WinRT gives them a chance to finally start marginalizing those legacy issues and make a clean break with the past. I believe Microsoft may have learned that lesson from Apple, that legacy support is a short-term benefit but a long-term hindrance, and every now and then you just have to cut the cord and move on. I don't know that WP8 will be this sort of cord-cutting event like WP7 was, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's at least a drastic a change as the WM6.5->WP7 change was.
  4. vantil's Avatar
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    #4  
    I think all of them will.
    Why?

    1. Nokia has been investing heavily on current WP 7 while closely backed by Microsoft.
    Microsoft is paying Nokia big money for making the move, despite the fact that Apollo launch is so close.
    It would absolutely make no sense if current models would not upgrade to Apollo.
    I really doubt they f*ck up something this important for both companies.

    2. I rather beliave the random spokeperson who says it, rather than some random anonymous source saying the opposite

    I really hope Microsoft will clarify this soon, but I understand they are not yet talking about the Apollo. They don't want customers waiting for it. They need to gain marketshare and build the ecosystem NOW.
  5. .Emi.
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    #5  
    I think all Windows Phones will get Apollo BUT obviously not all features.

    MS_nerd once said
    "Yes, all current Windows Phones will receive a subset of Apollo. The carriers are the primary obstacle in the US. I hear Microsoft is pushing hard for a Mango-like delivery schedule, as are Nokia & HTC.

    Some Apollo features will be exclusive to the 3rd-gen devices expected to be released this fall on the MSM8960 platform."

    also the video yesterday he clearly said what he was told, all deviced would get it.

    does it make sense 1st and 2nd gen would get a SUBSET of apollo? yes. because its imposible to upgrade alot of hardware related stuff to those phones.

    Also Nokia needs to be successful in Smartphone field, this would kill them or make their efforts really hard, because people wouldnt want a Nokia Phone, well Windows Phone, but LG, Samsung, HTC, has android, while Nokia chose to use Windows Phone. so Nokia depends on MS on WP decision. this isn't only about Microsoft. and if Nokia was one of the reasons why LTE WP exist, I believe they will also do something about Apollo, if something was not right.

    also I just would rather believe these people saying it will, than a non-named source from The Verge. why didn't this source showed up before someone said "yes all phones will be upgradable", why the verge didn't write that article before? also the verge has written a lot of crap about WP.

    Microsoft will say something later, but Tango hasn't released yet, I don't expect they talk about Apollo since its still being developed, if they never talked much about Tango.
    Last edited by .Emi.; 04-18-2012 at 09:20 AM.
  6. mparker's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by vantil View Post
    2. I rather beliave the random spokeperson who says it, rather than some random anonymous source saying the opposite
    The "random spokesperson" was a marketing guy. A technically-oriented marketing guy, but a marketing guy nonetheless. About as credible on *this* issue as a used-car salesman. Not that the "random anonymous source" was particularly credible either, but Microsoft's repeated non-denials *are* credible.
  7. iAdrian23's Avatar
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    #7  
    Hello Everyone. Read this if you want to know what's going on with Apollo.


    After today's biggest confusion I've done some research. What I found is that Apollo will come to all Windows Phone 7 handsets, but not fully that means not all features will be updated to your phone.


    What do you mean it will come but not fully?
    Apollo will support higher resolution, multiple cores, NFC beaming etc. These cannot be integrated in the current deviced.


    If I won't get HD display on my Lumia 900 nor dual core what do I get -.-?
    You will get (most likely) the Operating System, just as you got Mango (Ex: Improved Multi-tasking, TellMe updated, more options for personalization).


    That's it. I hope I cleared you all out.


    Thanks to: WPCentral, WMPowerUser, Microsoft & MS NErd.

    Oh and one more thing for The Verge: Next time you write a post, make sure you create the same confussion around the tech-world. /s
  8. vantil's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by mparker View Post
    The "random spokesperson" was a marketing guy. A technically-oriented marketing guy, but a marketing guy nonetheless. About as credible on *this* issue as a used-car salesman. Not that the "random anonymous source" was particularly credible either, but Microsoft's repeated non-denials *are* credible.

    Microsoft: "We have stated publicly that all apps in our Marketplace today will run on the next version of Windows Phone. Beyond that, we have nothing to share about future releases."
    Verge: "Aha! They won't deny it! That must mean it's bad news!"

    Seriously??
    Microsofts answer is a simple NO-COMMENT response.
    Apollo is half a year away! What else can you expect Microsoft to say?
  9. Shark87's Avatar
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    #9  
    I also think all phones will get it. I also agree with what Emi and iAdrian said, that not all features will be present. The iPhone has been mentioned as an example of 2 generation old devices receiving the newest OS (if I'm not mistaken all iPhones have received up to 2 OS upgrade). At the same time not all features work with the older gen iPhones. If I'm not mistaken the iP3G was not able to take advantage of iOS 4's multitasking feature. The iP3GS did not have full Siri integration that came with iOS5.
  10. sebastianbf's Avatar
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    #10  
    I voted for all phones.

    This has nothing to do with hardware specs. Have you heard about planned obsolescence?
    Well, I was one of the earlier adopter of the zune years back. I received the updates even when new models where coming out and then I learned a lesson... Microsoft (as bad as they can be sometimes), take care of their earlier adopters. This is one of the reasons I got a windows phone. I got tired of my iphone not receiving some features updates (even though it could run them) just because Apple wanted me to buy a new model.
  11. thed's Avatar
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    #11  
    I voted no. Everyone seems to be ignoring that fact that by all accounts, Apollo has an entirely new kernel. So it's not just a simple update, and as mparker said, convincing manufacturers to rewrite drivers could be a hard sell. Also, it's very possible that the Win 8 kernel will require better hardware than the Win CE kernel.
  12. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #12  
    No idea.

    I suspect it will be up to individual manufacturers and carriers as much or more than Microsoft.

    I do think that the Lumia 900 has a better chance of getting the Apollo upgrade than any other current WP7 phone, if it's possible. I believe that because it's very new and because Nokia is partnered with Microsoft and has more invested by far in Windows Phone than any other OEM.

    But in the meantime, I'm not spending much time concerning myself about it. I like my phone the way it is now. If I have to wait until the end of my contract to get an Apollo phone it's not going to be a horrible nightmare of death and destruction.

    People are dying of dysentery in Africa right now because they don't have clean water to drink.

    I think I will be OK if I can't make a major upgrade to my smartphone OS.
  13. mparker's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by vantil View Post
    Microsoft: "We have stated publicly that all apps in our Marketplace today will run on the next version of Windows Phone. Beyond that, we have nothing to share about future releases."
    Verge: "Aha! They won't deny it! That must mean it's bad news!"

    Seriously??
    Microsofts answer is a simple NO-COMMENT response.
    Apollo is half a year away! What else can you expect Microsoft to say?
    Had Microsoft's response been a simple "No Comment" or equivalent, then I would have agreed with you. But Microsoft didn't do that. They were asked a question "A" and answered a different question "B". So they're willing to talk about WP8, they just aren't willing to answer that particular question. Why - are they afraid that their competitors will find out? Is there some competitive advantage to keeping it a secret? Are they worried that their competitors might start upgrading their legacy devices in their next major release?

    The simplest and most likely answer (using Occam's razor) is that Microsoft itself doubts that WP7 devices will run WP8. Whether this is technical (compatibility with drivers/bootloader/etc) or economic (too expensive to write/test drivers/bootloaders etc) or political (carriers won't allow WP7 devices to be upgraded) is an open question.

    But for some reason Microsoft does not want to discuss this particular question, and have been avoiding this particular question for several months now. And that is very discouraging for current WP7 owners.

    Edit: Device Drivers and bootloaders ... Windows 8 kernel uses a device driver system that is derived from the one that was introduced in Vista. Win CE (WP7 kernel) used a driver system from the same era as Windows 95. Remember the missing drivers and instability headaches everybody had if you tried to upgrade an XP machine to Vista? That's likely what's facing Microsoft with a potential WP8 upgrade. Win 8 desktop is also going with a new bootloader (though the current Consumer Preview can use the traditional BIOS bootloader). The new bootloader is much nicer - much faster and much more secure from viruses.
    Last edited by mparker; 04-18-2012 at 11:40 AM.
  14. bear_lx's Avatar
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    #14  
    i think they will all get it, but not all of apollo will be functional on all phones. some of it will be hardware specific, like higher res screens, and better gaming. however, as much as i hope i get it, im not sure i would be that upset if i didnt. we have to remember people android does this every day! i am actually happy with mango, it does everythign i want it too. sure there could be some improvements, but i will live without custom notification tones, ect... this is getting blown up, as if it were a new apple device. and im sure apollo is going to be a huge improvement, a whole new OS, so i know we all WANT it. but even if i didnt get it, i would be ok. im certainly not going to support android or ios ever again... MS isnt going to let us down people. dont worry
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  15. vantil's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by mparker View Post
    So they're willing to talk about WP8, they just aren't willing to answer that particular question. Why - are they afraid that their competitors will find out? Is there some competitive advantage to keeping it a secret? Are they worried that their competitors might start upgrading their legacy devices in their next major release?
    They are not willing to talk about WP8. "We haven’t announced Windows Phone 8" blablabla...
    Silence is the norm because talking about far future release is not selling any phones right NOW.
    Exception to the rule: They had to make clear that apps are compatible. That's important info to app developers right now.
    Thats simplest and most likely reason (don't mind me using your expression) why they are commenting like that.
  16. ejb222's Avatar
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    #16  
    I voted no. I think MS would have squashed the rumors by now if so. They are extremely proud of Win8 desktop etc, I'm sure they would boasting WP8s compatibility with old phones if it was possible.

    So my hope is that in Oct, Nokia/MS offer another sick deal like they did the Lumia and we can all upgrade! One Nokia AC/DC for me please!(in cyan anodized aluminum!!!!!)
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  17. mparker's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by vantil View Post
    They are not willing to talk about WP8. "We haven’t announced Windows Phone 8" blablabla...
    Silence is the norm because talking about far future release is not selling any phones right NOW.
    WP8 is not a "far future release". It's about 6-8 months out, depending on what you consider to be "release". They're perfectly willing to state that WP7 apps will run on WP8. They're just not willing to say that WP7 machines will run WP8.

    Quote Originally Posted by vantil View Post
    They had to make clear that apps are compatible. That's important info to app developers right now.
    And upgradability is important info to potential *customers* right now, so if WP7 devices will be upgraded to WP8 why isn't Microsoft saying so?

    It's not like customers don't need to know this information to make an informed purchase, and it's not like this question caught Microsoft by surprise - this has been broached many times over the last few months and Microsoft has always deflected the question with a response about the applications. The WP8 upgrade question is simply a question that Microsoft does not want to answer.
  18. jasqid's Avatar
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    #18  
    I have a Sprint HTC Arrive. Of course my phone will NOT get that update... Or any other update. It took me 5 minutes to type this cause my keyboard kept disappearing.

    Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
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  19. dkp23's Avatar
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    #19  
    I voted no, because the most logical thing is not always the decision made by a corporation.

    I hope they do come out with another huge update for WP7, i just dont think we will not get a fully functional wp8 update...
  20. mkr10001
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    #20  
    I think current phones will get AN update which will include many of the new features of WP8 but not all of them
  21. KingCrimson's Avatar
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    #21  
    Wouldn't it be simple that if you want to upgrade to WP8, you plug it into your PC and Zune will flash the device? I mean people flash their iPhone or Androids with custom ROMs all the time, so why can't Zune? Since I know they have the technical ability to do so, my remaining questions would be:

    * do OS settings migrated(like having Twitter/FB turned on)
    * do app settings migrate

    we already know the apps & contacts themselves are stored on MS's cloud services, but it would be nice to know more.

    Honestly I think MSFT's story next month will be:

    You can continue to receive OTA updates on 7.x(from 7.6 to 7.9)

    OR

    you can connect up to Zune and update from 7.x to 8.x anytime, though it will be lengthy and you might lose settings.

    Point is Microsoft will have an update story for all existing WP users.
  22. mparker's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by KingCrimson View Post
    You can continue to receive OTA updates on 7.x(from 7.6 to 7.9)
    You get OTA updates for WP7?
  23. KingCrimson's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mparker View Post
    You get OTA updates for WP7?
    My theory is that in the worst case WP7.5 units will continue to get OTA updates to 7.9, probably over a 2 year period. In the better case, you will have the option of plugging the device into Zune and have it wipe the device and install Windows Phone 8, though probably at the cost of your settings.
  24. vantil's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mparker View Post
    And upgradability is important info to potential *customers* right now, so if WP7 devices will be upgraded to WP8 why isn't Microsoft saying so?
    Average customer knows nothing about Apollo release. Never heard of it, so they don't care.
    So I don't think info is important from sales perspective.
  25. boss.king's Avatar
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    #25  
    I think we will receive a watered down version of Apollo, in the same way old iPhones get a watered down version of iOS. It will still be a solid upgrade though.

    Reason: It would be pants-on-head-retarded for MSFT to abandon people who just bought a Titan or a Lumia, and it would potentially kill what relatively little support they have from consumers.
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