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  1. jabtano's Avatar
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       #1  
    Why WP7 could fail. We all know that the OS is smooth. though it's not for everyone. The point here is this. Windows on my PC/Laptop/Tablet is ok but my phone should be cool it's with me, out and about. Frankly there is nothing cool in "windows name" the reason why Xbox is so popular because it's not called windows games. Now that I have the name out of the way lets really get down to the nuts and bolts. when WP7 was launched it was so with missing key features that really turned on MS. people didn't even want to look at it no C&P, no multitasking..ect.. Microsoft the worlds biggest software company is there own worst enemy. The mobile world moves very, very fast. In the Microsoft world things crawl. this is what worries me the most about this platform. Just like the up-coming wp8 everyone is wondering will there device get updated and of course MS is not saying anything. I think that by them not saying anything it means one thing the answer is going to be no. That could spell big problems for Nokia who is investing so much right now with the lumia line.

    WP7 doesn't have yet (USB Mass storage/Local file manager/Bluetooth file transfer/TV Out/NFC. Yet Android devices depending on the device provides all of the above. Perhaps WP9 will have this in what 24 months. It really baffles me as to why at this stage of the game is MS Still dragging there feet as if they are the only players. This why I, still think that WP7-WP8 could fail. Don't get me wrong I don't whish to see that as I really like the OS and I want to see it take off but it's MS who so very slow in this fast pace world that worries me the most.
    jleebiker likes this.
  2. AkiraNakayama's Avatar
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    #2  
    Agreed. Some or all of those things you listed should have been included from the get go. I don't understand the process within the walls of Microsoft. But I can't imagine they couldn't have just sat down with a laundry list of essential core functions culled from both iOS and Android and said, "Ok, everything else will be frosting, but THESE things? They need to be in." Especially since they had such mature systems to look at for reference to begin with....

    Instead, it seems like someone in the meeting said, "What? Copy/Paste? Nah, we don't need that."
    jleebiker likes this.
  3. draztikrhymez's Avatar
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    #3  
    It is kind of hard to give Microsoft a pass on missing features considering they are a huge software company that banks off that.

    I gave Palm a pass with webOS but only because they were poor compared to the big boys and needed time.
  4. canesfan625's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by draztikrhymez View Post
    It is kind of hard to give Microsoft a pass on missing features considering they are a huge software company that banks off that.

    I gave Palm a pass with webOS but only because they were poor compared to the big boys and needed time.
    Apple got a pass on missing features for years. What do they do? Bake cookies?

    Android was missing some features through I think Froyo? What does Google do? Spreadsheets? They aren't poor either.
    justop26 likes this.
  5. draztikrhymez's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    Apple got a pass on missing features for years. What do they do? Bake cookies?
    I'm talking about me personally and I didn't give them a pass which is why I don't own their product
  6. canesfan625's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by draztikrhymez View Post
    I'm talking about me personally and I didn't give them a pass which is why I don't own their product
    But to the masses everyone's device was glorious out of the gate except Microsoft.
  7. based_graham's Avatar
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    #7  
    To be fair the reason why they didn't do this is because they wanted to make Windows Phone 7.5 a very simplistic and easy platform for ppl to understand.

    You know how when you mention Windows the first thing a average person would think of is "its complex, its slow, its hard to use, it crashes". Microsoft is trying to take that bad taste away by having a phone or operating system that simply works and thats why WP isn't to complex and doesn't include a too hardcore feature set.

    WP7.5 is trying to go the iPhone route instead where its simplistic and anybody can use it. With a local file manager it can get complex especially on a phone I remember the 6.5 days but with Skydrive it makes storng documents online a priority rather than storing documents on your phone and thats kinda where mobile storage is going.

    Some of the features below ill be coming to Windows 8. I assume they waited because they wanted to perfect the platform before adding way to many changes. As of right now a WP is a great companion device if you have a Windows PC but if you want to use your phone as a PC then its not the greatest device to use. But still WP capitalize on a very rich feature set
    - Social networking/messaging
    - Photography
    - Music/Multimedia
    - Live Tiles UI
    - Transportation especially with Nokia
    - Office Suite
    - Xbox Gaming

    The feature set above is enough to statisfy a majority of consumers and the very cool thing is that most of the features above a pre-packaged and integrated into the operating system which makes it a very smooth end user experience.

    This is my take on this I dont think it lacks too many features it lacks some but for the experience you get I can easily trade that off. For exmaple I love the ability to use Bing Music while listining to Sirus radio in my car. Find the track thats current playing and download with Zune Pass. Its a very easy, fluid and fun platform and with more aggresive marketing and pricing Nokia can really put a hurting into Androids and Blackberrys Marketshare.
  8. smoledman's Avatar
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    #8  
    It's insane to expect Apollo devices to have been released last Christmas with 200K apps in the store, considering Windows Phone began development in early 2010. Some of you people are just bat-ROSES insane.
    Last edited by Dave Blake; 04-21-2012 at 09:05 AM. Reason: please do not try to beet the curse filter
  9. vantil's Avatar
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    #9  
    It's not the name that makes product cool.
    Its the product that makes the name cool.

    Besides, cools come and cools go. Cool never stays.
  10. jabtano's Avatar
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       #10  
    What I'm really trying to get across is that MS is super slow. the Mobile world is super fast. simple is ok to a point. But when that simple is less than what is available else where for the same price.
  11. peestandingup's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    Apple got a pass on missing features for years. What do they do? Bake cookies?

    Android was missing some features through I think Froyo? What does Google do? Spreadsheets? They aren't poor either.
    That was then, this is now.
  12. canesfan625's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by peestandingup View Post
    That was then, this is now.
    Oh thanks. Didn't know.

    Every smart phone has launched missing stuff of some sort

    All of them. All the way back to the BlackBerry 8700c. When RIM decided to compete in the consumer market.

    If you wan't to see what a bad phone actually is get in your time machine and go pick up a Samsung Instinct.
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 04-21-2012 at 05:57 AM.
  13. cgk
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    #13  
    WP7 is never going to get most of these things - they don't want you to use USB storage, bluetooth file transfer or a desktop file manager.
  14. bear_lx's Avatar
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    #14  
    its not going to Fail... GEESH PEOPLE. and if it does, then what? android , ios? no thanks! its not going to fail, when verizon gets ahold of nokia this year, it wil do the same thing it did for android and iphone... because before big red, iphone market share was probably around 10-15% now look at it, one year later.

    windows phone is NOT going to FAIL.:P
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  15. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #15  
    If people lack objectivity and judge something because of it's name - that's their downfall. "Windows" is here to stay and the reason MS's console was called "Xbox" is because "Windows" wasn't appropriate, considering it's function and target demographic.
    Google - "Don't be evil. . . much!"
  16. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by based_graham View Post
    To be fair the reason why they didn't do this is because they wanted to make Windows Phone 7.5 a very simplistic and easy platform for ppl to understand.

    You know how when you mention Windows the first thing a average person would think of is "its complex, its slow, its hard to use, it crashes". Microsoft is trying to take that bad taste away by having a phone or operating system that simply works and thats why WP isn't to complex and doesn't include a too hardcore feature set.

    WP7.5 is trying to go the iPhone route instead where its simplistic and anybody can use it. With a local file manager it can get complex especially on a phone I remember the 6.5 days but with Skydrive it makes storng documents online a priority rather than storing documents on your phone and thats kinda where mobile storage is going.

    Some of the features below ill be coming to Windows 8. I assume they waited because they wanted to perfect the platform before adding way to many changes. As of right now a WP is a great companion device if you have a Windows PC but if you want to use your phone as a PC then its not the greatest device to use. But still WP capitalize on a very rich feature set
    - Social networking/messaging
    - Photography
    - Music/Multimedia
    - Live Tiles UI
    - Transportation especially with Nokia
    - Office Suite
    - Xbox Gaming

    The feature set above is enough to statisfy a majority of consumers and the very cool thing is that most of the features above a pre-packaged and integrated into the operating system which makes it a very smooth end user experience.

    This is my take on this I dont think it lacks too many features it lacks some but for the experience you get I can easily trade that off. For exmaple I love the ability to use Bing Music while listining to Sirus radio in my car. Find the track thats current playing and download with Zune Pass. Its a very easy, fluid and fun platform and with more aggresive marketing and pricing Nokia can really put a hurting into Androids and Blackberrys Marketshare.
    I agree with this and would just like to add that the people reading these forums are not the average consumer. Most people won't miss add feature lists because they never used them before on there other phones. Sure it's nice to have but for average consumers who never used a file manager and find volume profiles confusing they will love the speed and simplicity of WP. They won't miss these confusing additions to the OS that power users seam to demand. I would love to see things like these added to the WP OS but if it never happens I am okay with that too. I can still set the volume and I can still get docs and music to my phone I just have to do it in a different simpler way that doesn't cause my phone to be slow and laggy. The OP is saying Mocrosoft is draging there feet I don't think so I think MS is bilding a different more consumer friendly OS.
  17. fisci's Avatar
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    #17  
    It is going to fail I think....

    Little things like not being able to change the headphone volume without changing the ringer volume, etc. is ridiculous for a mobile os in this day and age.

    You can be apologists all you want, but they are falling behind more and more by the day. If they don't do something QUICKLY, they'll end up another forgotten ms product
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by jabtano View Post
    Why WP7 could fail. We all know that the OS is smooth. though it's not for everyone. The point here is this. Windows on my PC/Laptop/Tablet is ok but my phone should be cool it's with me, out and about. Frankly there is nothing cool in "windows name" the reason why Xbox is so popular because it's not called windows games. Now that I have the name out of the way lets really get down to the nuts and bolts. when WP7 was launched it was so with missing key features that really turned on MS. people didn't even want to look at it no C&P, no multitasking..ect.. Microsoft the worlds biggest software company is there own worst enemy. The mobile world moves very, very fast. In the Microsoft world things crawl. this is what worries me the most about this platform. Just like the up-coming wp8 everyone is wondering will there device get updated and of course MS is not saying anything. I think that by them not saying anything it means one thing the answer is going to be no. That could spell big problems for Nokia who is investing so much right now with the lumia line.

    WP7 doesn't have yet (USB Mass storage/Local file manager/Bluetooth file transfer/TV Out/NFC. Yet Android devices depending on the device provides all of the above. Perhaps WP9 will have this in what 24 months. It really baffles me as to why at this stage of the game is MS Still dragging there feet as if they are the only players. This why I, still think that WP7-WP8 could fail. Don't get me wrong I don't whish to see that as I really like the OS and I want to see it take off but it's MS who so very slow in this fast pace world that worries me the most.
    Actually Xbox is so popular because it's a great product that MS threw money at until it succeeded. Also the 360 was the first HD system and launched a year ahead of its nearest competitor, the PS3, which was initially hampered by it's $600+ price tag. MS/Nokia/ATT made a smart move pricing the 900 so aggressively. Of course those of us on wpcentral realize high-end WPs are worth high-end prices, but to everybody else we are the new kids on the block. Also the aggressive pricing will help first-time smartphone buyers--WPs key potential growth-market--come our way. But even more than price barrier the first-timers tend to go with what the rep pushes, which was dealt with by making the 900 a hero device.
  19. Laura Knotek's Avatar

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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Supes View Post
    If people lack objectivity and judge something because of it's name - that's their downfall. "Windows" is here to stay and the reason MS's console was called "Xbox" is because "Windows" wasn't appropriate, considering it's function and target demographic.
    I happen to be a big fan of Linux. In fact, I belong to two area Linux user groups. I dual-boot Win7 Professional/openSUSE 12.1 on my main PC.

    As everyone knows, Linux users tend to hate all things Microsoft.

    However, I attended a meeting of the Akron Linux User Group on Thursday. When we set on phones on the table, the folks at the meeting recognized my Lumia 900. They knew what it was by the cyan color and knew it was a Windows Phone. They wanted to see it and play with it. Everyone was impressed, including the Android/iOS users.

    If Linux aficionados like Windows Phone, it definitely does not matter if "Windows" is part of its name.
    FriendOrDafoe likes this.
  20. peestandingup's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    Oh thanks. Didn't know.

    Every smart phone has launched missing stuff of some sort

    All of them. All the way back to the BlackBerry 8700c. When RIM decided to compete in the consumer market.

    If you wan't to see what a bad phone actually is get in your time machine and go pick up a Samsung Instinct.
    That was kinda the point. You're sorta giving MS a pass because the other guys did the same thing. Yet a lot has changed since then, and that was back when smartphones, all smartphones, simply sucked. Heck, most people didn't even know what a smartphone was.

    iOS & Android have been around for a long time now (in tech years anyway). They got a pass because they were first & no one knew any better. Now we do. So how are you going to convince Joe & Jane Consumer to give MS a pass the same way, when they could just go with one of the more mature ecosystems?? Honest question.

    Microsoft seems like they're always playing catchup.
  21. LexusFman's Avatar
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    #21  
    The Windows branding does not hurt WP at all. Your average user does not see the same things power users do. Most people do not find Wndows hard to use, its easy because that's what they've been using for ever. In fact, there are people who have no idea conputers run Windows at all. What WP needs is attactive handsets. You can't sell an operating system. You sell phones. That's why android is such a success. It's an industry standard. It lets phone companies focus on making handsets instead of focusing on making the UI and such.
    willied likes this.
  22. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by peestandingup View Post
    That was kinda the point. You're sorta giving MS a pass because the other guys did the same thing. Yet a lot has changed since then, and that was back when smartphones, all smartphones, simply sucked. Heck, most people didn't even know what a smartphone was.

    iOS & Android have been around for a long time now (in tech years anyway). They got a pass because they were first & no one knew any better. Now we do. So how are you going to convince Joe & Jane Consumer to give MS a pass the same way, when they could just go with one of the more mature ecosystems?? Honest question.

    Microsoft seems like they're always playing catchup.
    My attempt to answer your question from my real life experience:

    My friend who has been using Nokia's feature phone since he decided to buy a mobile phone. He has only had 3 different handsets so far, Nokia, Samsung, Nokia. The last one was coloured, other two were not. The last one is a 'feature phone'.

    I showed him my Lumia 800 and went on and on and on and on and on about hubs, live tiles, notifications etc. His answer: "Yes, but I can do that all on my laptop!"

    For a feature phone user - all these extra features doesn't matter. If I showed him an android with widgets, customisation, custom ROMs, thousands of apps - you think he will find it simpler? No. All he wants he call, texts and at most an email replacement on his phone.

    What if I lured him to an iPhone? He will think it's as good as selling his kidney for the phone he has. He is NOT going to go from 0% smartphone user to 100% tech-savvy smartphone user.

    Thus, for them, it doesn't matter what features the phone has or misses. If it looks different, works easy, never stops, feels good, beautifies his life - he is sold!
    Plus, it's not just the feature phone base that will buy this without features, we have already seen in our polls on this forum and elsewhere that Android and iOS users have flogged to Windows Phone Nokia Lumia 900, not because they din't know it isn't feature-full or loaded with apps. They knew it. But this is different, hence they will buy it. May be not the second time, but if Tom won't, John will next time.

    This is smartphone market. No OS will rule this market for a decade without coming up with something extra-ordinary. Apple failed to do something diffferent for 5 years, Android has grabbed the 50% shares. If it does so for 2 more, you will see the market swing. But if Android keeps fragmenting and lagging and freezing for 2 more years, you will see the market rock and roll!
    cp2_4eva likes this.
  23. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I happen to be a big fan of Linux. In fact, I belong to two area Linux user groups. I dual-boot Win7 Professional/openSUSE 12.1 on my main PC.

    As everyone knows, Linux users tend to hate all things Microsoft.

    However, I attended a meeting of the Akron Linux User Group on Thursday. When we set on phones on the table, the folks at the meeting recognized my Lumia 900. They knew what it was by the cyan color and knew it was a Windows Phone. They wanted to see it and play with it. Everyone was impressed, including the Android/iOS users.

    If Linux aficionados like Windows Phone, it definitely does not matter if "Windows" is part of its name.
    I've been a Mac user since the first Macintosh was sold in 1984, and used Apple's as a kid even before that. I definitely had a strong bias against Microsoft for years and always thought of Windows as being kind of a crap product.

    I began to try and put that bias aside about 10 years ago. I decided to buy my first Microsoft product EVER, an HP iPaq Windows CE organizer, and it was very good. Much more capable than the Palm device I had been using, and that started to turn things around for me.

    Bought a ThinkPad not too long after that, still had Mac's though. The ThinkPad was great but Windows XP I was not a huge fan of, I'm still not.

    Flash forward to a couple of years ago and Windows 7 came out. I gave it a try and really like it. I still prefer Mac OS X to it, but it just goes to show if you really try to be objective, you can put bias aside and enjoy different OS's and see what's good about any of them.

    That said, I don't know that calling the phone OS "Windows Phone" was good or bad. I think it would have been a good idea had they been more focused on the enterprise market, like Windows Mobile was. As far as consumers are concerned I think the Windows brand still isn't "hip" or cool and that matters, especially in the smartphone market. I think a lot of people probably hear Windows Phone and think it's going to be running Windows XP or Win Mo and it's going to get viruses. I think people who have Windows 7 and are even a little enthusiastic about it though, will make a positive association with it.

    I think Microsoft could have done just as well to call it something else.

    But... I think Windows 8 will change all that. Once people start buying Windows 8 PC's and Windows 8 tablets and they see that same Metro UI and Live Tile interface, it will all start to make sense to them. I really feel that will give the phones a nice boost.

    A lot of people don't even know what "ecosystem" means, but they will understand how having a very similar interface on their phone as to what's on their PC and the same apps, and apps that work well together can be advantageous.

    Apple understands this too, which is why they trickled some iOS-like interface features into Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) and why Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) has far more tie-in to the iOS.

    All of this is going to make a lot more sense in 12-18 months. Both Apple and Microsoft are going to be able to offer a kind of synergy that the scattershot mess of Android cannot match and I predict you'll see both Windows Phone and iOS gain at least a modest amount of marketshare as a direct result of that tight integration.
  24. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    i happen to be a big fan of linux. In fact, i belong to two area linux user groups. I dual-boot win7 professional/opensuse 12.1 on my main pc.

    As everyone knows, linux users tend to hate all things microsoft.

    However, i attended a meeting of the akron linux user group on thursday. When we set on phones on the table, the folks at the meeting recognized my lumia 900. They knew what it was by the cyan color and knew it was a windows phone. They wanted to see it and play with it. Everyone was impressed, including the android/ios users.

    If linux aficionados like windows phone, it definitely does not matter if "windows" is part of its name.
    +1
  25. Laura Knotek's Avatar

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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    I've been a Mac user since the first Macintosh was sold in 1984, and used Apple's as a kid even before that. I definitely had a strong bias against Microsoft for years and always thought of Windows as being kind of a crap product.



    I began to try and put that bias aside about 10 years ago. I decided to buy my first Microsoft product EVER, an HP iPaq Windows CE organizer, and it was very good. Much more capable than the Palm device I had been using, and that started to turn things around for me.



    Bought a ThinkPad not too long after that, still had Mac's though. The ThinkPad was great but Windows XP I was not a huge fan of, I'm still not.



    Flash forward to a couple of years ago and Windows 7 came out. I gave it a try and really like it. I still prefer Mac OS X to it, but it just goes to show if you really try to be objective, you can put bias aside and enjoy different OS's and see what's good about any of them.



    That said, I don't know that calling the phone OS "Windows Phone" was good or bad. I think it would have been a good idea had they been more focused on the enterprise market, like Windows Mobile was. As far as consumers are concerned I think the Windows brand still isn't "hip" or cool and that matters, especially in the smartphone market. I think a lot of people probably hear Windows Phone and think it's going to be running Windows XP or Win Mo and it's going to get viruses. I think people who have Windows 7 and are even a little enthusiastic about it though, will make a positive association with it.



    I think Microsoft could have done just as well to call it something else.



    But... I think Windows 8 will change all that. Once people start buying Windows 8 PC's and Windows 8 tablets and they see that same Metro UI and Live Tile interface, it will all start to make sense to them. I really feel that will give the phones a nice boost.



    A lot of people don't even know what "ecosystem" means, but they will understand how having a very similar interface on their phone as to what's on their PC and the same apps, and apps that work well together can be advantageous.



    Apple understands this too, which is why they trickled some iOS-like interface features into Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) and why Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) has far more tie-in to the iOS.



    All of this is going to make a lot more sense in 12-18 months. Both Apple and Microsoft are going to be able to offer a kind of synergy that the scattershot mess of Android cannot match and I predict you'll see both Windows Phone and iOS gain at least a modest amount of marketshare as a direct result of that tight integration.
    I agree with you, especially re: ecosystems.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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