Why WP isn't as popular as it should be.

[jbjtkbw007]

Unfortunately in Canada we have 14 days. Usually that is pretty sufficient time. However, I would like to try something new. I am extremely unhappy with Telus plus, I like gadgets and always want to try the latest thing. What makes Windows Phone stand out above the other platforms? Other than the most common reasons. I have read some reviews which say the Lumia is a pretty awesome phone.

It's been said a few times, but your thought process changes when performing tasks. iOS and Android have you thinking what then who. Basically, what do I need to do, where do I go to do it, and who is the intended 'target'? With Windows Phone, who comes first which takes a lot of steps out of the equation. The people hub is key in that aspect. Groups your people or not. Send your message/post/update. Be done. Simple.

Also, lag and lockups are like bigfoot and the lochness monster; few have seen them, and many believe they don't even exist. My Bionic had great specs, but pinch to zoom in a browser was choppy. I tried an iPhone 4 for a month to give it a fair shake. It killed me how many presses it took to get simple stuff done. Sure, it was simple, but it was wasteful in the amount of presses. On this phone, no more than 2-3 presses to begin what I want to do. That's even cut down more when I use a live tile. Just how you do things is refreshing and just makes me want to use it more.

I said on another post that I don't own a pc. I do it all here on the phone. Because it makes me want to.

 

[blackhawksfan75]

It's been said a few times, but your thought process changes when performing tasks. iOS and Android have you thinking what then who. Basically, what do I need to do, where do I go to do it, and who is the intended 'target'? With Windows Phone, who comes first which takes a lot of steps out of the equation. The people hub is key in that aspect. Groups your people or not. Send your message/post/update. Be done. Simple.

Also, lag and lockups are like bigfoot and the lochness monster; few have seen them, and many believe they don't even exist. My Bionic had great specs, but pinch to zoom in a browser was choppy. I tried an iPhone 4 for a month to give it a fair shake. It killed me how many presses it took to get simple stuff done. Sure, it was simple, but it was wasteful in the amount of presses. On this phone, no more than 2-3 presses to begin what I want to do. That's even cut down more when I use a live tile. Just how you do things is refreshing and just makes me want to use it more.

I said on another post that I don't own a pc. I do it all here on the phone. Because it makes me want to.

Another question. Where do you see this OS in the next 6 months? I know and understand MS has deep pockets so they can basically do what they want. But in the smartphone which we all know is locked down pretty tight with Apple and Android, does it stand a fighting chance to be competitive. Which is pretty much the point of this thread. BB as much as I love my Canadian company and wish them nothing but the best I believe is too little too late. They have shot themselves in the foot way too often. And unless something drastic happens next week at Blackberry World I can anything really changing. I also don't want to be like the rest of the crowd, which is why I am looking into the Windows phone.

 

[jbjtkbw007]

Another question. Where do you see this OS in the next 6 months? I know and understand MS has deep pockets so they can basically do what they want. But in the smartphone which we all know is locked down pretty tight with Apple and Android, does it stand a fighting chance to be competitive. Which is pretty much the point of this thread. BB as much as I love my Canadian company and wish them nothing but the best I believe is too little too late. They have shot themselves in the foot way too often. And unless something drastic happens next week at Blackberry World I can anything really changing. I also don't want to be like the rest of the crowd, which is why I am looking into the Windows phone.

I'm no analyst nor am I a fortune teller. I can only go off my gut. M$ are going all in with WP7 then 8, etc. AT&T is making a huge push. Its been said by VZW that they are going to be marketing Windows Phone when 8 comes out. That's more than 6 months out. Magic 8-Ball says 'Outlook Good'.

And as you've said...you have twice the time that they had in the Ring....you have 14 days ;-)

 

[Laura Knotek]

If you are a Mac user, check out this article. http://www.maclife.com/article/features/iphone_4s_user’s_weekend_nokia_lumia_900


Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[Sasquatch76]

Can't close out different tabs without going into them. So if I want to close out of everything, I have to hit the back button 50 times? Clumsy. Also, it's not true multitasking. Every time I switch apps the things reloads.

Your tabs load in the task manager, so just hold down the back button and all the tabs will show up and you can close whatever. And apps only reload if you open them by clicking on them from the home screen. They're in the same state you left them if you use the task manager. Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[cckgz4]

I will sum-up concisely why I dislike Windows phones:

They are bland, boring and lack basic functionality.

Furthermore, there should be a global privacy setting which gives the user complete control of their privacy on a single screen. I won't get started on Zune...

As soon as the new mid-range Androids become available (and affordable), I will jump ship.
I'll keep the phone as a spare - and hope someone manages to put the hardware to good use.

I'm seriously not trolling. I know many people are satisfied with their phones, but personally speaking; I'm bored stiff with the device (3 weeks in.)

Seriously who MAKES posts like these and try to defend that it's not trolling? And how the heck can you NOT get an Android mid-range phone that's pretty decent? Does your carrier not offer it? I'll help you find one if you want to leave that bad

 

[maniac2403]

I have phones from all ecosystems which I rotate on a daily basis. Here is my opinion on each (strictly mine):

iOS: the most stable OS, although boring as ****. But the app ecosystem and the ease of use do make it good for the older generation. The learning curve is not that steep.

WP: very fluid and social integration is top notch. Except that, I don't have the regular apps which I need. Sure there are alternatives, but they do not match up to the same user experience. WP is still in its infancy and I predict good things for it.

BlackBerry: Totally a communications device. I won't even compare QWERTY with on screen keyboards. Beats them by miles. Except emails, texting etc, the device is so 90's.

Android: Stable at least for me and has a huge developer community. Open source has allowed many a devs to build and test for this platform which makes customization very easy. They have their glitches and freezes, but as a geek, I don't mind them.

Overall, my two most used devices are Android and WP. When I want to tinker and mess around with my phone, I use Android. When I want a change, I go with WP. I seriously hope WP becomes the 3rd place ecosystem and beats RIM. If it has to compete with Android and iOS for market share, it still has a long way to go, but it is doable.

 

[cckgz4]

I have phones from all ecosystems which I rotate on a daily basis. Here is my opinion on each (strictly mine):

iOS: the most stable OS, although boring as ****. But the app ecosystem and the ease of use do make it good for the older generation. The learning curve is not that steep.

Have you jailbroke your iPhone? And not to be funny but do you know all the things you can change when you do that?

 

[tal99]

Back to the original post - I found it a really profound summary especially since it does not revolve around missing features and the like but about perception. Opposed to most users visiting this forums the majority buys its smartphone quite uninformed (heck I'm pretty sure a lot don't even know that there a different OSes, there is the iPhone and some other brands from Samsung, Nokia, ...).

"Windows Phone? That has Windows in it. I had Windows Vista and I hated it. I don't want any more Windows."
The name is the killer.

MS will pretty sure not give up this name although I'm also pretty sure it hurts the market share a lot. While there are a few who appreciate Windows and hope for good integration (and then are shocked that there is no direct sync) it would be great to have a more consumer focused brand like Zune (probably gone soon and hardly knwon outside the US) or XBOX.

I think the best way around this is stressing the hardware brand. At least with Nokia (where there is no confusion about WP vs. Android) this does already seem to work very well: those who have one mostly mention it as a "Lumia" and not as a "Windows Phone", and I'm sure a lot of the Lumia owners don't know that a HTC Titan is in a lot of ways a very similar phone.

""But...I use iTunes."
I'm not sure if I'm the only one who has noticed this, but this is HUGE.

So true. Apple has locked in users very tighly. If you already have a iPad, iPhone or iPod(!) in your home (and lots of people do so!) it's hard to switch since you have to manage your music in both iTunes AND Zune. MS as the underdog really must provide a means for easy coexistance with iTunes (including tutorials for migration and that zune (or wathever will be used with WP8) automatically syncs with iTunes.

 

[cckgz4]

I have iTunes and Zune. My iTunes purchases can easily sync to my WP with no problems and as well as my Android device.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Specs. Sounds stilly and over repeated, but before I really knew anything about phones, I took a look, saw the moto atrix had 2 cores, more ram, and I stupidly chose the useless atrix over the hd7 at the time.

Though I still keep the atrix for dev purposes, I think I'm going to replace it with a better android device sooner or later. As for my wp7 phone (still a focus, after trying out the wp7.5 device waters, twice), I am just waiting on Nokia to make a flagship device without a silly amoled display. I've not yet had ONE, which hasn't had burn in after about a year of use, even with babying it (including a Zune hd). My focus has already gotten burn in, despite being rarely used, after 2 months of being a daily driver.


Sent from my iPhone using


Edit: and yes, the Zune hd is amoled, they just didn't advertise it as such back then. The only other choice for consumer devices back then was pmoled, and that.... Would not of worked.

 

[halojann]

I feel it would help a long way if microsoft decided to include :
1. Bluetooth file transfer .. turns off a lot of potential buyers where i come from
2. Easy PC to phone file transfer (w/o 3rd party apps) ... nice if zune added some mass storage capabilities ..
3.HTC as well as samsung needs to advertise their wp7 phones... (tired of everyone calling my radar a lumia )
4.Native wifi/3g/data/gps toggle app like the one in droid....unless there's a metro alternative
5.Native orientation lock ...
6.Certain zune player features like smart dj and artist view are not available in certain countries.. (would it hurt to include?)
7.Option to save pages in IE
8.A tile based frequently called - phone book would be better than the 'history' list that opens once you tap 'phone'....(like what c8m6p suggested)
9.More live tile colours,a create playlist option direct from the phone.

 

[trivor]

OS Lock in

When WP7 was announced I was convinced that would be my first smartphone - until it took Verizon almost a year to get WP7 and then it was mediocre hardware. For those of you calling us trolls we are just pointing out additional areas or reasons that WP7 is not more popular. I live in a golf/resort/retirement community and meet tons of people and have yet to see a WP7 in the wild. In addition, the idea that iPhone users are stupid to be using iPhones will not get converts to WP7. Every iPhone user I know (some long time users and some new users) likes/loves their iPhone - I have yet to meet a single person that didn't like it. Most of my friends are very intelligent people so implying that they are iSheep or use a phone that isn't very useful is not helping to build up WP7. WP7 is VERY LATE to the game and has to be demonstrably better than the competition to get people to switch. In addition, the longer someone users another operating system (in general), unless they've had major problems with it, the less likely they will switch because they know it. All we have to do is look back the MS-DOS vs Mac OS - the Mac was easier to use (although I didn't particularly care for it) but squandered it's lead by being way more expensive and eventually Windows caught up. So Mac OS never got more than 5% of the PC market. For those who say apps aren't an issue obviously haven't had a must have app on their phone. In addition, it is almost guaranteed that any application will be on both iOS and Android - no telling when or if WP7 will get it. Implying that Android is stupid and "I hate Android" (Paul Thurotte) is also not going to help WP7 succeed. Just because many people (everyone on this site) thinks WP7 is better doesn't mean it will succeed commercially (look at all the orphan WebOS users - much better than anything out at the time it was released). I think WP7 is allowing Android to get it's act together (Matias Duarte - a primary designer of WebOS) and Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich is a very nice operating system. Finally, while certain specs may not matter to the base operating system (single vs. multi core) there are a lot of things than can benefit from better specs - cameras (the software can do a better job of taking pictures with more processing power), games, higher resolutions screens (iPhone retina, 720P, etc), more memory (why is there only a max of 16 GB on WP7 - especially with data caps), limited ram (why only 512K when I have heard many people complain about the speed of fast app switching). There is no rule that says there has to be three major phone OSes and WP7 is getting to the point where it needs to start gaining some market share (and even as well as the Lumia has supposedly sold Nokia is falling like a rock - $1.7 billion loss is not good). I would love to have an option of WP7 but my next phone better have better than a WVGA display (you can see the difference), more than 16 GB of memory (especially if it's non-expandable), LTE (all new Verizon phones must have LTE according to Verizon CEO), shouldn't be tied to a desktop (not a big fan of iTunes or Zune) and for all the talk about fragmentation MS just introduced fragmentation with Tango. While I'm sure my post is no more welcome than the first post in this thread that is just my opinion - I come here hoping that I will learn something just in case Verizon gets some good Windows phones (the plural is on purpose).

 

[maniac2403]

Have you jailbroke your iPhone? And not to be funny but do you know all the things you can change when you do that?

Yes, I have and know all the things I can do with a jailbroken iPhone. But the OS customization which Android offers or the information which WP provides on its desktop can't be compared to what iOS offers.

 

[mb-dape]

I can share my experiences from the situation in the Swedish market, which I think look the same in many countries outside the US.

WP didnt get support for Swedish and the MS services didnt work here until WP7.5.

iPhone and Android had almost half of the market each here, so the WP-phones had to be something special. The first HTC and Samsung devices wasnt. Both the hardware and WP7.5-software got mediocre reviews and wasnt enough to make people switch and try something new.

And here we have never heard of Zune before. And I think Zune offers much more services in US compared to other countries. Here we cant buy music in Zune for an example. So the whole Zune software thing doesnt make much sense here.

And why should you even have to connect it to your computer to sync photos? iPhone and Android can auto upload them to your Dropbox in original size. WP can not. You can not even select multiple photos or "all" photos for manual uploading to Skydrive. Talking about basic functionality.

It is not about comparing to iPhone or Android specificly. Its about that people nowdays knows what a smartphone is and what you can expect from it. And as a new contender (at least here in Sweden) MS can not settle with "the same functions in a different way". They have to have something, if not sensational, at least spectacular that makes people think it is worth offering the functionality the are used to.

I think WP is great in its design and smooth UI. Except from that I cant see a reason why an iPhone or Android user would switch, the loss of functions would be so much bigger then the gain. Of course there is users like me that switched just out of curiosity and because we believe in the MS eco-system, but we are very few here.

When the Nokia Lumia 800 and the HTC Titan was released here, WP got quite a lot of attention. The phones was the first WPs to get some really good reviews, but i had mainly to do with the hardware and the design. And obviously the Lumia 800 sold pretty much thanks to the massive ad campaigns.

But sadly enough (and this is true) I have never seen a single phone being sold in such huge amounts on the second hand market just weeks after its release.

So apparently WP has a problem to attract people in the first place, and even to attract current users enough to stay with the device.

I think WP would have the best chance to compete with iPhone, where probably many users needs are quite basic. They want a fast phone with social network functionality. WP would fit perfect. But these users also want the latest Angry Birds, they want the banking apps, they want the agencies apps, they want the sharp screen from the iPhone. They want to have a phone that is future safe regarding apps/games/functions.

And for the same price as the flag ship WP Titan or Lumia 800, you can get an Android phone with big true HD display, super fast camera, 1080p video recording, HDMI connection, Flash support and fully a customizable OS. So the choice for hard core/power users and nerds isnt hard either.

I dont know about US market but the Androids here are not having severe problems with reboots or buggy software. I know of some really, really cheap ones that were slow and had low res displays but generally the Androids are as stable as iPhone and WP in the same price class.

I see now that I could have written a book instead, sorry, but it is an interesting thread and I wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[ggabriele3]

I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but:

the things listed in the OP are threshold issues. either misconceptions (i.e. i use itunes, and Windows Phone Connector for the mac is fine) or a potentially (hopefully) temporary situation caused by a currently small user base ("what's windows phone?" and "missing apps.")

There are problems that I have to give them a pass on - like the 16GB limitation, screen resolution limitation, or the fact that many of my apps have critical bugs (Rdio was the most important app for my switch from iOS, and it does not function.). These get a pass, for now.

the real problem, IMO as a concurrent iOS user, is that WP7 is riddled with first-gen-OS problems and missing features. little things that would have been barely excusable for the first iPhone, but shouldn't still be here.

For example

To list a few:
- Select All.
- "Open In..."
- Restore from a previous device's backup.
....i could go on, but that's not the point. The point is there are more things that WP7 can't do that iOS can than vice versa. These inhibit adoption because most people don't want to search for hacks or wait patiently for updates. They want something that works...and their current OS works for them. The threshold of frustration is very low.

An example: when connecting to an exchange account, WP7 doesn't like self-signed certificates. I couldn't connect to my office exchange server. It took lots of searching, but i found a solution (email myself the certificate and manually install it). I was in an ATT store the other day and heard another guy returning his phone for the same reason. To him, WP7 "didn't work" and iOS did. He was wrong, but this is how the world works.

In order for there to be mass acceptance, the transition has to be seamless in all respects. Lots of people love the look of my phone, but there's inevitably a question of "can it do X" that i have to say "not yet" to.

Part of the blame here may rest with the WP7 community - I have witnessed the same type of fanboyism and apologism that Apple fanboys engaged in when the first iPhone came out - the same type of "it's not a bug, it's a feature" and "why would you need to do X? i don't need it so it's not a missing feature" and "16GB should be plenty for most people" arguments that give the OS too much leeway. I also notice (particularly on the windows phone SubReddit) unconditional rejection of any criticism of the OS (just like Apple Fanboys do).

Bear in mind: I'm a long-time iOS user, I like my new Lumia 900 and i'm keeping it as my primary phone for the foreseeable future. I have explored the four corners of iOS, and i bump into WP7's limitations pretty often. I want WP7 to succeed, but in 2012, there is a checklist of features that every OS should have in order to make the transition easy on non-techie switchers.

 

[ubizmo]

So what's your basis for this statement? How do you know that it would make users happy by adding more color choices? Are there a ton of threads with people discussing this topic like the vibrate, the camera button from sleep, the WiFi? Its a bold statement to make and all id like to hear is the thought on this or clarifying that it's your personal preference and not everyone else's. Again, more choice takes us down that Android route and there needs to be a line.

Customizable colors for the accent color. This is one such suggestion; there are others. I don't claim that this is a high priority item, but it's a simple thing that could easily be implemented without bloating the OS or creating unwanted complexity.

It's really not a very bold claim at all. In fact, it's much bolder to claim that the "line" to keep us from going "down that Android route" should be drawn at accent colors. What's the basis for that claim? Can you find me a single example of a WP user expressing satisfaction at the limited number of accent colors?

I agree that not everything needs to be customizable. For example, I've considered the matter of screen fonts. WP uses the Segoe font, and it's part of the look and feel of the OS. On my BB, I prefer a serif font to the default BB sanserif. I like the fact that I'm able to do that, but I can understand why MS might not want to give the user that option. A single font lets the Metro OS have a unified look. But since they already allow users to select accent colors, I see no reason to limit that choice to the handful of mostly neon hues now available.

On the subject of fonts, giving the user a bit more choice in the selection of font size is another story. Since screen sizes vary, this is a matter of functionality. People who need larger type shouldn't be forced to buy larger phones.

 

[mb-dape]

ggabriele3, you are on the same track as me.

It not about WP vs iPhone and Android, it doesnt have to be a war where the WP community tries their best to bash the other platforms to make WP look better.
WP has to shine on its own!
Today, april 2012, people are used to smartphones and know what they want in them and what they should be able to do with them.

Like you I remember the first iPhone that was missing MMS, couldnt record video, no Bluetooth file transfer etc. The response from the iPhone-community was just like in these forums. "Who uses MMS?" "Buy a video cam!" "If I say you dont miss that future you dont!"

Apple could get away with it in 2007 in the childhood of the new smartphones.

2012 you can not.

 

[sting7k]

I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but:

the things listed in the OP are threshold issues. either misconceptions (i.e. i use itunes, and Windows Phone Connector for the mac is fine) or a potentially (hopefully) temporary situation caused by a currently small user base ("what's windows phone?" and "missing apps.")

There are problems that I have to give them a pass on - like the 16GB limitation, screen resolution limitation, or the fact that many of my apps have critical bugs (Rdio was the most important app for my switch from iOS, and it does not function.). These get a pass, for now.

the real problem, IMO as a concurrent iOS user, is that WP7 is riddled with first-gen-OS problems and missing features. little things that would have been barely excusable for the first iPhone, but shouldn't still be here.

For example

To list a few:
- Select All.
- "Open In..."
- Restore from a previous device's backup.
....i could go on, but that's not the point. The point is there are more things that WP7 can't do that iOS can than vice versa. These inhibit adoption because most people don't want to search for hacks or wait patiently for updates. They want something that works...and their current OS works for them. The threshold of frustration is very low.

An example: when connecting to an exchange account, WP7 doesn't like self-signed certificates. I couldn't connect to my office exchange server. It took lots of searching, but i found a solution (email myself the certificate and manually install it). I was in an ATT store the other day and heard another guy returning his phone for the same reason. To him, WP7 "didn't work" and iOS did. He was wrong, but this is how the world works.

In order for there to be mass acceptance, the transition has to be seamless in all respects. Lots of people love the look of my phone, but there's inevitably a question of "can it do X" that i have to say "not yet" to.

Part of the blame here may rest with the WP7 community - I have witnessed the same type of fanboyism and apologism that Apple fanboys engaged in when the first iPhone came out - the same type of "it's not a bug, it's a feature" and "why would you need to do X? i don't need it so it's not a missing feature" and "16GB should be plenty for most people" arguments that give the OS too much leeway. I also notice (particularly on the windows phone SubReddit) unconditional rejection of any criticism of the OS (just like Apple Fanboys do).

Bear in mind: I'm a long-time iOS user, I like my new Lumia 900 and i'm keeping it as my primary phone for the foreseeable future. I have explored the four corners of iOS, and i bump into WP7's limitations pretty often. I want WP7 to succeed, but in 2012, there is a checklist of features that every OS should have in order to make the transition easy on non-techie switchers.

Hey man you are right on with your assessment. I feel exactly the same way. I'm hoping WP8 really steps it up another level. WP7 is not bad at all. But I feel like I am stepping back to iOS 3 era in some regards. For me it's no biggie. But for John Smith if it doesn't do even one thing the iPhone or Android can then that's it. Microsoft really needs to get in gear because iOS 6 is possibly around the corner at Apple's WWDC and Android ICS is starting to make it to more phones every week.

 

[AngryNil]

Your tabs load in the task manager, so just hold down the back button and all the tabs will show up and you can close whatever. And apps only reload if you open them by clicking on them from the home screen. They're in the same state you left them if you use the task manager. Or am I misunderstanding?

You're right, though you should clarify that the tabs all show up when you press the tabs item on the menu in IE, not necessarily in the actual task switcher. Also, some apps will be unloaded from memory and require some time to resume if your phone doesn't have enough RAM to keep it there.