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  1. inteller's Avatar
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       #1  
    Stealth update for XBL on iOS adds all the Companion functionality we had exclusive.

    Let's just go ahead and release Office and remove any other reasons for people to come to Windows Phone.

    Bag of tools...is anyone running Microsoft?
    theefman likes this.
  2. mhans311's Avatar
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    #2  
    Well Microsoft is also trying to promote XBOX and this is a great way to entice a large number of people to use XBOX even more. Besides, it's not a feature that is going to make most people drop iOS for wp anyway.

    Oh and they already released a one note application for Android that works pretty well. That combined with quickoffice is more than I need as far as Office apps go. One note was the only thing missing before.
  3. bigkevbosky's Avatar
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    #3  
    Eh, this doesn't really bother me at all. As long as you have it on your Windows Phone, who cares if its on other platforms? I'm more upset by the apps on iOS that WP DOESN'T have.
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  4. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #4  
    The companion app is fairly useless and will get replaced by SmartGlass this fall.
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  5. theefman's Avatar
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    #5  
    Its obvious that Windows Phone is no longer going to be the center of MS's mobile world, and Xbox, Office and Windows are the three main properties at Microsoft and everything else is geared towards supporting those divisions. Dont forget Smartglass is also going to be on all platforms, and at this point apart from Office Mobile there are no exclusive MS features on WP; we know Xbox live gaming is coming to ios and android at some point. Clearly this is going to be the standard formula going forward and WP is not seen as being as vital to MS's future plans as it was previously.

    While it will be argued that no one was going to switch to WP for these exclusives they most certainly wont consider it when they can get the same functionality on their own devices. IMO the goal of growing WP's marketshare significantly is now something that MS has abandoned and its just there to enable MS to say they have a presence in the mobile space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post
    The companion app is fairly useless and will get replaced by SmartGlass this fall.
    Again negating any advantage for Windows Phone.
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  6. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #6  
    So I take it the OP doesn't like this idea. I see it like this give them a taste of what they could have then watch them come running to Windows Phone 8
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  7. theefman's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blake View Post
    So I take it the OP doesn't like this idea. I see it like this give them a taste of what they could have then watch them come running to Windows Phone 8
    They'll have no reason to since they can have the same features and more on their current platform. Or am I missing something, cos I dont see how it brings anyone over to Windows Phone in any way. Eg, if apple released siri on WP, would that make it less or more likely for a happy WP user to switch to an ios device?
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  8. inteller's Avatar
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       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    they'll have no reason to since they can have the same features and more on their current platform. Or am i missing something, cos i dont see how it brings anyone over to windows phone in any way. Eg, if apple released siri on wp, would that make it less or more likely for a happy wp user to switch to an ios device?
    exactly.
  9. bigkevbosky's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    They'll have no reason to since they can have the same features and more on their current platform. Or am I missing something, cos I dont see how it brings anyone over to Windows Phone in any way. Eg, if apple released siri on WP, would that make it less or more likely for a happy WP user to switch to an ios device?
    Well, I disagree, in a sense. If all apps were available on all platforms, then people would chose their OS based on a few of the following options :

    Variety of devices
    Build Quality
    Price Point
    Smoothness/reliability of OS
    Ease of use
    "Bonus features" (Free turn by turn nav? Music/Video services? etc)

    That way, if all apps are on all devices, you wouldn't get someone going "I need an iOS device or Android phone for Instagram".

    Now, I see your point - if MS takes its exclusives and puts it on every device, will anyone ever switch to a Windows Phone? It's like - if MS took Halo and ported it to Playstation, would anyone on Sony's "side" buy the next Xbox?

    But you also have to think back to the basis of the whole argument - money. Microsoft is going to make more money by porting certain apps to platforms that have 100 million US users - they have to face facts that Windows Phone doesn't have the market share right now to justify "exclusivity". Once they get the iOS user/Android user hooked on something like SmartGlass, they can make it exclusive a couple of generations from now, and force them to switch. And if they can get those iOS/Android users to, maybe not buy a Windows Phone, but buy an Xbox, they still win. They get them integrated into the "ecosystem" and hope, over time, they'll have enough invested that they migrate ALL their devices (phone, tablet, and TV) to their platforms.
    Vallos likes this.
  10. ninjaap's Avatar
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    #10  
    I fail to see how the companion app would persuade someone to come to WP. I don't even use the app myself. I think it's "cool", but more of a hassle to use and eats up battery life.
  11. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    Again negating any advantage for Windows Phone.
    But a huge advantage for Microsoft and the Xbox. Games sell smartphones, but the Xbox brand is not selling Windows Phone. Microsoft would foolish to ride out that sinking ship. Furthermore, the smartphone market =/= the console market. Gaming on a console is a major investment. Did you want to play Halo 3 upon release? That's $400 for a brand new Xbox 360 plus $60 per game. Want to play Fruit Ninja? Grab any smartphone on the market and download it for free (or .99 cents on WP). Gamers aren't lining up to play the same game on a Windows Phone that they can get on any phone, and developers aren't interested in creating exclusive content for an ecosystem with only 2-3% market share. However, they will be interested in something like SmartGlass which will allow developers to tap into the Xbox, iOS, WP, and Android market, and at the same time bringing more people into the Microsoft ecosystem.

    Or... Microsoft could continue their winning strategy of selling Fruit Ninja with "Xbox Live" above the icon.
  12. inteller's Avatar
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       #12  
    Before they released on other platforms, I heard many friends say "I wish I had XBL on my phone" Those were people that might have switched when their contract was up. Removed that now. I still hear people say they wish they had REAL office on their non windows devices. If Microsoft leaks that out to other platforms it is game over, just stop WP development.
  13. theefman's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigkevbosky View Post
    Well, I disagree, in a sense. If all apps were available on all platforms, then people would chose their OS based on a few of the following options :

    Variety of devices
    Build Quality
    Price Point
    Smoothness/reliability of OS
    Ease of use
    "Bonus features" (Free turn by turn nav? Music/Video services? etc)

    That way, if all apps are on all devices, you wouldn't get someone going "I need an iOS device or Android phone for Instagram".

    Now, I see your point - if MS takes its exclusives and puts it on every device, will anyone ever switch to a Windows Phone? It's like - if MS took Halo and ported it to Playstation, would anyone on Sony's "side" buy the next Xbox?

    But you also have to think back to the basis of the whole argument - money. Microsoft is going to make more money by porting certain apps to platforms that have 100 million US users - they have to face facts that Windows Phone doesn't have the market share right now to justify "exclusivity". Once they get the iOS user/Android user hooked on something like SmartGlass, they can make it exclusive a couple of generations from now, and force them to switch. And if they can get those iOS/Android users to, maybe not buy a Windows Phone, but buy an Xbox, they still win. They get them integrated into the "ecosystem" and hope, over time, they'll have enough invested that they migrate ALL their devices (phone, tablet, and TV) to their platforms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post
    But a huge advantage for Microsoft and the Xbox. Games sell smartphones, but the Xbox brand is not selling Windows Phone. Microsoft would foolish to ride out that sinking ship. Furthermore, the smartphone market =/= the console market. Gaming on a console is a major investment. Did you want to play Halo 3 upon release? That's $400 for a brand new Xbox 360 plus $60 per game. Want to play Fruit Ninja? Grab any smartphone on the market and download it for free (or .99 cents on WP). Gamers aren't lining up to play the same game on a Windows Phone that they can get on any phone, and developers aren't interested in creating exclusive content for an ecosystem with only 2-3% market share. However, they will be interested in something like SmartGlass which will allow developers to tap into the Xbox, iOS, WP, and Android market, and at the same time bringing more people into the Microsoft ecosystem.

    Or... Microsoft could continue their winning strategy of selling Fruit Ninja with "Xbox Live" above the icon.
    You are both right, and basically confirm my thoughts that WP is the sacrificial lamb to Xbox. And this is exactly my point, the same thing is keeping MS from releasing Office for the ipad, because once they do that, with all the apps and functionaly, accessories and marketshare it has, would any average user even give a second thought to a Windows 8 tablet? No, because there would be no need.

    With WP, its obviously nowhere near the status of Office but the point remains, if you give away all its exclusive features, who will buy it? And the result of that is, the marketshare continues in the single figures, devs dont target the platform (cross platform play with the Xbox), users dont buy it, and it continues in a vicious cycle. So yes, Microsoft wins but I cant see how in any way benefits or contributes to the growth of WP which is needed for it to be considered a major player and subsequently have access to all the apps that are always claimed to be missing.
    aubreyq likes this.
  14. Major's Avatar
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    #14  
    There may be a few people who select a mobile platform based on this or that app, but most people base their decision on whether or not they like the way the OS works, feels, and looks.
    wolf1891 likes this.
  15. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    Before they released on other platforms, I heard many friends say "I wish I had XBL on my phone" Those were people that might have switched when their contract was up. Removed that now. I still hear people say they wish they had REAL office on their non windows devices. If Microsoft leaks that out to other platforms it is game over, just stop WP development.
    Except Microsoft can't make a sound business decision because a small amount of your friends would like Xbox Live on their phone. Plus, imagine their dismay when they realize that they're still not getting Xbox Live on their phone, just a fairly useless companion app.
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  16. inteller's Avatar
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       #16  
    that post made absolutely no sense.
  17. ninjaap's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    Before they released on other platforms, I heard many friends say "I wish I had XBL on my phone" Those were people that might have switched when their contract was up. Removed that now. I still hear people say they wish they had REAL office on their non windows devices. If Microsoft leaks that out to other platforms it is game over, just stop WP development.
    Please don't lie to yourselves. People don't switch platforms specifically for apps. Many people left iOS because because it was getting stale and many left Android because it was annoying and buggy. Then they started listing the apps to convince themselves to make the leap, which they were going to do anyway. If you're happy with Android, you're not going to say "Quickoffice sucks. I'm switching to WP so I can get MS Office on my phone." No, they simply say "Quickiffice does what I need and if I need full use of MS Office, I'll just use my PC."
  18. theefman's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post
    Except Microsoft can't make a sound business decision because a small amount of your friends would like Xbox Live on their phone. Plus, imagine their dismay when they realize that they're still not getting Xbox Live on their phone, just a fairly useless companion app.
    Not so useless, try setting a beacon from your WP. And it has every other feature available on WP, except from achievements.
  19. theefman's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaap View Post
    Please don't lie to yourselves. People don't switch platforms specifically for apps. Many people left iOS because because it was getting stale and many left Android because it was annoying and buggy. Then they started listing the apps to convince themselves to make the leap, which they were going to do anyway. If you're happy with Android, you're not going to say "Quickoffice sucks. I'm switching to WP so I can get MS Office on my phone." No, they simply say "Quickiffice does what I need and if I need full use of MS Office, I'll just use my PC."
    Almost every pro review that is favouorable to WP ends up with the reviewer saying they cant switch to WP because this or that app is missing. The reverse can also be true, problem in WP's case is it lacks so many other apps already one app wont do it - yet. But the fact remains, this is one less reason for anyone considering a switch to do so.
    aubreyq likes this.
  20. bigkevbosky's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    With WP, its obviously nowhere near the status of Office but the point remains, if you give away all its exclusive features, who will buy it? And the result of that is, the marketshare continues in the single figures, devs dont target the platform (cross platform play with the Xbox), users dont buy it, and it continues in a vicious cycle. So yes, Microsoft wins but I cant see how in any way benefits or contributes to the growth of WP which is needed for it to be considered a major player and subsequently have access to all the apps that are always claimed to be missing.
    I assume you live in the US - I do as well. I think we have the wrong viewpoint, as Americans. Microsoft knows they can't win in this country for a long time, so they're competing where they know they can win - developing countries. I think their goal is not to dominate the US, but the globe, and their way of doing that is by getting devices as cheap as possible into the hands of the most people possible. We may not have the lead on apps in the US, but in, I dunno, Italy or North Africa, we might soon.

    Also, its obvious Microsoft is trying to spread a whole design philosophy across their devices, focusing on style, smoothness, and reliability rather than simple app exclusivity. They can't win that battle, so why fight? They're going to get people to switch who like the design of the OS, and they're going to completely dominate the "low end" of the market - people worldwide who are getting smartphones for the first time.

    I think MS is viewing this as a decade-long battle, not a few years. Think about it this way - you're a developer in the US with 150 million iPhone users. But worldwide you only have 300 million users. Microsoft has only 10 million Windows Phone users in the US, but 500 million worldwide. See my point? They're going to still develop for the most users of the OS, and since its EASY to port an app from Windows 8 to Windows Phone and vice-versa, they'll potentially double their exposure cross-platform.

    So if Microsoft can get some iPhone and Android users to buy Xbox and get into the ecosystem now, by releasing a few apps to them, why wouldn't they? They're still going to win in the end, and Windows Phone will still be the 2nd or 3rd most popular OS on the planet eventually.

    Remember, its not JUST SmartPhones where MS competes - its most electronics - and there's probably a WHOLE lot more money in controlling the living room than there is in controlling the mobile world. And since nobody has come up with a good solution to control the TV space yet, MS is focusing on that first. Makes sense from a purely profit/business standpoint.
    Last edited by bigkevbosky; 06-13-2012 at 04:03 PM.
  21. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    You are both right, and basically confirm my thoughts that WP is the sacrificial lamb to Xbox. And this is exactly my point, the same thing is keeping MS from releasing Office for the ipad, because once they do that, with all the apps and functionaly, accessories and marketshare it has, would any average user even give a second thought to a Windows 8 tablet? No, because there would be no need.

    With WP, its obviously nowhere near the status of Office but the point remains, if you give away all its exclusive features, who will buy it? And the result of that is, the marketshare continues in the single figures, devs dont target the platform (cross platform play with the Xbox), users dont buy it, and it continues in a vicious cycle. So yes, Microsoft wins but I cant see how in any way benefits or contributes to the growth of WP which is needed for it to be considered a major player and subsequently have access to all the apps that are always claimed to be missing.
    As sales have shown, the companion app (and Xbox Live in general) is not a worthwhile exclusive feature that is bringing more people to Windows Phone. You may call the companion app a "sacrifice" but "salvaging" a dead application is a more accurate definition. Going back to my previous comparison, Halo sales 360s because it's exclusive to the Xbox. Fruit Ninja doesn't sell smartphones because it's available on every smartphone. Developers aren't support the companion app and gamers aren't supporting the companion app. Microsoft needs to do something to keep it from being a complete waste of their time.

    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    that post made absolutely no sense.
    I was trying to be nice but let me spell it out for you: your friends don't matter.

    Facts and figures matter, not how badly your small group of buds really want something. And like I said, they're not getting "Xbox Live," they're getting the watered down and useless companion app.

    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    Not so useless, try setting a beacon from your WP. And it has every other feature available on WP, except from achievements.
    In terms of what the companion app has done for gaming and for the Xbox... yeah it's fairly useless.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 06-13-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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  22. ninjaap's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    Almost every pro review that is favouorable to WP ends up with the reviewer saying they cant switch to WP because this or that app is missing. The reverse can also be true, problem in WP's case is it lacks so many other apps already one app wont do it - yet. But the fact remains, this is one less reason for anyone considering a switch to do so.
    That's just a nicer way of saying they didn't want to switch in the first place. You serioulsy believe that Words With Friends is holding someone back from buying a WP? App popularity dies down fairly quickly. I don't know anyone who plays WWF regularly now. And most people install Angry Birds, just to say they have Angry Birds. I bet they haven't even touched the game in months. It's their loyalty or fanboyism to the OS that's holding them back, not apps.

    I do agree it's one less reason for them to switch, but it's not the deciding factor.
  23. #23  
    I don't think this will effect the integrity of the upcoming ecosystem. People will see the metro UI and will want it wherever they go, especially considering how light and stable the metro UI is. To sum this up I think the real reason why MS is doing this is to promote the metro UI to a wider variety of users, once they see how good it is they won't have any problem leaving their OS for WP.
  24. theefman's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigkevbosky View Post
    I assume you live in the US - I do as well. I think we have the wrong viewpoint, as Americans. Microsoft knows they can't win in this country for a long time, so they're competing where they know they can win - developing countries. I think their goal is not to dominate the US, but the globe, and their way of doing that is by getting devices as cheap as possible into the hands of the most people possible. We may not have the lead on apps in the US, but in, I dunno, Italy or North Africa, we might soon.
    So far nothing suggests this will be the case. Apps are normally relased for ios and android, WP version awol. Nothing suggests that will change soon anywhere in the world.

    Also, its obvious Microsoft is trying to spread a whole design philosophy across their devices, focusing on style, smoothness, and reliability rather than simple app exclusivity. They can't win that battle, so why fight? They're going to get people to switch who like the design of the OS, and they're going to completely dominate the "low end" of the market - people worldwide who are getting smartphones for the first time.
    Again, there really is nothing to suggest this will be the case. android dominates the low end, nothing on the WP side competes at the moment.

    I think MS is viewing this as a decade-long battle, not a few years. Think about it this way - you're a developer in the US with 150 million iPhone users. But worldwide you only have 300 million users. Microsoft has only 10 million Windows Phone users in the US, but 500 million worldwide. See my point? They're going to still develop for the most users of the OS, and since its EASY to port an app from Windows 8 to Windows Phone and vice-versa, they'll potentially double their exposure cross-platform.
    Theoretically yes, but just because its possible to port to and from from WP8 and Windows 8 doesnt mean developers will, especially if the numbers arent there.

    So if Microsoft can get some iPhone and Android users to buy Xbox and get into the ecosystem now, by releasing a few apps to them, why wouldn't they? They're still going to win in the end, and Windows Phone will still be the 2nd or 3rd most popular OS on the planet eventually.
    They wont get to be 2nd or 3rd the way they're going now. At least not in our lifetime.

    Remember, its not JUST SmartPhones where MS competes - its most electronics - and there's probably a WHOLE lot more money in controlling the living room than there is in controlling the mobile world. And since nobody has come up with a good solution to control the TV space yet, MS is focusing on that first. Makes sense from a purely profit/business standpoint.
    With the number of mobile users predicted to overtake PC users eventually, I think the living room wont be the main driver of revenue but mobile, and with no real hook to buy into Windows Phone as its functionality is available elsewhere, will WP be a relevant player in this scenario?

    Quote Originally Posted by Figure 8 Dash View Post

    In terms of what the companion app has done for gaming and for the Xbox... yeah it's fairly useless.
    Does the same apply to Smartglass, which is an updated companion app?

    And I think we're getting away from the real point here, its not the companion app in itself, its the removal of functionality exclusive to Windows Phones which ultimately diminishes the appeal of WP. As it stands, it seems the Metro UI is not enough to get people on board in numbers, so when you give people even less reason to switch to it by making its unique features available to everyone else, how it is going to grow? It will apparently never match the speed of hardware advancement in android and will never have the mindshare of ios, so whats left?

    Why did most of us here buy WP in the first place? Wasnt it for the features as well as the UI? The UI works for us, but if thats the only selling point and other people arent attracted to it, which it seems is whats actually happening, what sells WP?
    Last edited by theefman; 06-13-2012 at 04:36 PM.
  25. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaap View Post
    That's just a nicer way of saying they didn't want to switch in the first place. You serioulsy believe that Words With Friends is holding someone back from buying a WP? App popularity dies down fairly quickly. I don't know anyone who plays WWF regularly now. And most people install Angry Birds, just to say they have Angry Birds. I bet they haven't even touched the game in months. It's their loyalty or fanboyism to the OS that's holding them back, not apps.

    I do agree it's one less reason for them to switch, but it's not the deciding factor.
    Personally, I think so. This is just my opinion, but there's going to come a point where apps and features are interchangeable between platforms. As more "must-haves" make their way to WP, consumers will have fewer reasons to say no to Windows Phone and fewer reasons to say yes. And the same will be true for every platform. Why will anyone need to specifically buy a Windows/Android/iPhone/BB10 for Words with Friends when it's on every platform? Or when turn-by-turn is free on every platform? Or when <insert feature> can be done with any phone? What's going to sell phones in the future is the UI, hardware, marketing/social status, and price. But, that's just my opinion.
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