Elop: We aren?t getting the traction we prefer

[N8ter]

i personally think that thing is hideous... id rather use a phone from "miami vice" or "saved by the bell"

Agree, the ugliest phone I've ever seen made worse by how absolutely bulky it is.

PureView will pretty much always be limited to niche prosumer smartphones until they can fit it in a phone that doesn't completely bastardize all current consumer preferences. The cameras in the One X/GS3/i4 and Sony Devices all perform extremely well without needing this type of chasis. If Nokia wants to focus on PureView, it will be a problem and it will cost them because devices like that have very limited viability in markets like the US.

 

[N8ter]

Look at the sales numbers on the Galaxy S2 and tell me resolution matters. For that matter, look at the sales numbers on the Galaxy Nexus and tell me a mediocre camera matters. The key is mindshare with the people that SELL the phones. Elop is spot on.

Let's put it into perspective:

Galaxy S II

Announced 2011, February
Status Available. Released 2011, April

On AT&T (US Carriers always lag in availability of Samsung devices)

Announced 2011, August
Status Available. Released 2011, October

Yes, WVGA was still common - even on newer devices in April 2011.

Lumia 900

Announced 2012, January
Status Available. Released 2012, April

So 1 year after GS2 launch, and 6 months after it came to AT&T Nokia wants to compete with:

1. Old QC processor vs. the Exynos in the AT&T GS2
2. A Worse Camera, and it only does 720p video instead of 1080p (IIRC, Correct me if I'm Wrong)
3. A. 1.3 MP VGA FFC
4. Barely a better screen, if better at all - Lower PPI due to screen size difference
5. BT 2.1 vs 3.0+HS
6. No WiFi Direct
7. No NFC
8. 512 MB vs. 1GB RAM
9. No SD Card Slot
10. [Subjective] WP7 instead of Android, when Ecosystems matter more now than ever

The GSII is being eclipsed by the GS3 and you can't even buy it in AT&T corporate stores anymore (only the Skyrocket), but the Lumia is still there going strong with specs from 2 years ago.

The only spec that the Lumia 900 bests is the fact that it has LTE (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), 0.2" bigger screen (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), and the fact that it's a WP7 device (which is entirely subjective). Oh, and it has a bigger battery (Again, if disregarding the Skyrocket).

There is significant spec lag in the WP7 device ecosystem compared to Android and iOS.

App issue has been discussed ad nauseum. There will always be those people who seriously think the browser is all they need. The Playbook fans on crackberry thought the same thing, and that didn't turn that device into a success.

 

[eric12341]

It?s Not Just About Price: Nokia?s Elop Says They?re Not Getting The Retail Traction They ?Prefer? | TechCrunch

It's funny to me that he's blaming the front line salespeople. I agree with that somewhat, but aside from the design, the 900 didn't exactly blow anyone away with their mediocre camera quality & last gen screen/specs. But that's more Microsoft's fault.

Also, whether you guys believe it or not, the lack of apps are a BIG deal to most people. I use basically all the platforms out there, and not having stuff on WP that I'm used to having on Android/iOS (like Instagram, Path, & higher quality apps overall that are updated frequently & not abandoned) is a real buzz kill.

IMO, both MS & Nokia are screwing up. But MS more than Nokia.

I'm sorry but I fail to see how all of this is supposedly Microsoft 's fault. Despite the campaign they did to educate salespeople there still were quite a few that sabotaged sales of WP devices.

I don't really mind the lack of apps if the browser works, but my god the browser can't do ****.

None of the websites usually recognize it as a mobile browser, and if they do the functionality is lost. I wouldn't mind not having apps if my browser could handle the main website, but it can't.

That's because the site developers are coding with webkit in mind. If they used the generic html5 tags the sites would work better. It's not the browser at all and the desktop sites work as they do on the PC.

Apps are very important. If WP7 had a lot of apps it will make up for the lack of features.

What lack of features? Even iOS6 is now starting to provide features that WP has had since 2010.

Let's put it into perspective:

Galaxy S II

Announced 2011, February
Status Available. Released 2011, April

On AT&T (US Carriers always lag in availability of Samsung devices)

Announced 2011, August
Status Available. Released 2011, October

Yes, WVGA was still common - even on newer devices in April 2011.

Lumia 900

Announced 2012, January
Status Available. Released 2012, April

So 1 year after GS2 launch, and 6 months after it came to AT&T Nokia wants to compete with:

1. Old QC processor vs. the Exynos in the AT&T GS2
2. A Worse Camera, and it only does 720p video instead of 1080p (IIRC, Correct me if I'm Wrong)
3. A. 1.3 MP VGA FFC
4. Barely a better screen, if better at all - Lower PPI due to screen size difference
5. BT 2.1 vs 3.0+HS
6. No WiFi Direct
7. No NFC
8. 512 MB vs. 1GB RAM
9. No SD Card Slot
10. [Subjective] WP7 instead of Android, when Ecosystems matter more now than ever

The GSII is being eclipsed by the GS3 and you can't even buy it in AT&T corporate stores anymore (only the Skyrocket), but the Lumia is still there going strong with specs from 2 years ago.

The only spec that the Lumia 900 bests is the fact that it has LTE (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), 0.2" bigger screen (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), and the fact that it's a WP7 device (which is entirely subjective). Oh, and it has a bigger battery (Again, if disregarding the Skyrocket).

There is significant spec lag in the WP7 device ecosystem compared to Android and iOS.

App issue has been discussed ad nauseum. There will always be those people who seriously think the browser is all they need. The Playbook fans on crackberry thought the same thing, and that didn't turn that device into a success.

It's not about specs its more about the ecosystem and user experience which will change greatly when WP8 and when W8 tablets and PCs are released.

 

[freestaterocker]

Let's put it into perspective:

Galaxy S II

Announced 2011, February
Status Available. Released 2011, April

On AT&T (US Carriers always lag in availability of Samsung devices)

Announced 2011, August
Status Available. Released 2011, October

Yes, WVGA was still common - even on newer devices in April 2011.

Lumia 900

Announced 2012, January
Status Available. Released 2012, April

So 1 year after GS2 launch, and 6 months after it came to AT&T Nokia wants to compete with:

1. Old QC processor vs. the Exynos in the AT&T GS2
2. A Worse Camera, and it only does 720p video instead of 1080p (IIRC, Correct me if I'm Wrong)
3. A. 1.3 MP VGA FFC
4. Barely a better screen, if better at all - Lower PPI due to screen size difference
5. BT 2.1 vs 3.0+HS
6. No WiFi Direct
7. No NFC
8. 512 MB vs. 1GB RAM
9. No SD Card Slot
10. [Subjective] WP7 instead of Android, when Ecosystems matter more now than ever

The GSII is being eclipsed by the GS3 and you can't even buy it in AT&T corporate stores anymore (only the Skyrocket), but the Lumia is still there going strong with specs from 2 years ago.

The only spec that the Lumia 900 bests is the fact that it has LTE (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), 0.2" bigger screen (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), and the fact that it's a WP7 device (which is entirely subjective). Oh, and it has a bigger battery (Again, if disregarding the Skyrocket).

There is significant spec lag in the WP7 device ecosystem compared to Android and iOS.

App issue has been discussed ad nauseum. There will always be those people who seriously think the browser is all they need. The Playbook fans on crackberry thought the same thing, and that didn't turn that device into a success.

I was using the GS2, which is still the top-selling device on my carrier, Bell, (Canada) as an example of a great-selling device with 800x480 resolution to demonstrate that most people don't care about pixel count as long as they can read the damn thing. One note of correction: the GS2 has the same size screen as the Lumia 900; 4.3", which means it also has the same pixel density, and therefore the 900 wins the screen contest due to ClearBlack. The Nexus was the device I used to demonstrate that many people don't care as much about a great camera, although I will concede its importance to more people than high rez.

 

[scottcraft]

I think WP8 needs to be impressive for WP to start the growth it needs. By all rights I should switch to another platform after using an HTC Trophy for a year. Currently I'm on my third Trophy. The first broke right after Mango was release.It had some sort of antenna problem and wouldn't make calls. That one was replaced due to reboots after the 8107 update. The one I have now reboots. I absolutely love the os even though there are missing features, but this phone has hardware and software issues. Right now I would have a hard time recommending the Trophy to a Verizon customer. I know the apps will come with platform growth so that isn't an issue to me (even though there are apps I want that are on other platforms), but a phone with a large high-resolution display, top-notch camera and LTE are requirements. Please wow me Microsoft!

 

[scottcraft]

I was using the GS2, which is still the top-selling device on my carrier, Bell, (Canada) as an example of a great-selling device with 800x480 resolution to demonstrate that most people don't care about pixel count as long as they can read the damn thing. One note of correction: the GS2 has the same size screen as the Lumia 900; 4.3", which means it also has the same pixel density, and therefore the 900 wins the screen contest due to ClearBlack. The Nexus was the device I used to demonstrate that many people don't care as much about a great camera, although I will concede its importance to more people than high rez.

When I played with a Galaxy Nexus in the store that display really made me want that phone. It took me a few days to decide to stick with the Trophy.

 

[freestaterocker]

Agree, the ugliest phone I've ever seen made worse by how absolutely bulky it is.

PureView will pretty much always be limited to niche prosumer smartphones until they can fit it in a phone that doesn't completely bastardize all current consumer preferences. The cameras in the One X/GS3/i4 and Sony Devices all perform extremely well without needing this type of chasis. If Nokia wants to focus on PureView, it will be a problem and it will cost them because devices like that have very limited viability in markets like the US.

I have to concur with you; that concept is hideous! Good luck fitting that abomination into your pants pocket... I actually like the styling of the 808. If they retained it's aesthetics, dropped in the requisite hardware buttons, (I'd even be cool with physical buttons ala the 710) and beefed up the processor and resolution to Apollo standards I think it would do well. I know I'd buy it. And before you lynch me, I know I said in another post that resolution doesn't matter to most people. I'm one of the ones it does matter to. I would be fine with WVGA, especially on the 4" screen, but I have extremely good eyesight, and wouldn't mind more pixels to sharpen things up a wee bit more.

 

[N8ter]

It's not about specs its more about the ecosystem and user experience which will change greatly when WP8 and when W8 tablets and PCs are released.

It's about both, because with "behind the curve" phones you know any ecosystem will suffer in one way or another. Games will be of lower quality (visually or in performance). Apps will not be on feature parity with their sisters on other platforms (i.e. PayPal NFC money transfers, for example), and in some cases developers may simply refuse to support the platform period, in an effort to avoid a fragmented user experience. Also the user experience for other people is degraded as a result - for example instead of doing a 720p video call they're getting pixelated VGA video from you...

 

[N8ter]

I was using the GS2, which is still the top-selling device on my carrier, Bell, (Canada) as an example of a great-selling device with 800x480 resolution to demonstrate that most people don't care about pixel count as long as they can read the damn thing. One note of correction: the GS2 has the same size screen as the Lumia 900; 4.3", which means it also has the same pixel density, and therefore the 900 wins the screen contest due to ClearBlack. The Nexus was the device I used to demonstrate that many people don't care as much about a great camera, although I will concede its importance to more people than high rez.

You missed the point...

GS2: Released April 2011
L900: Released April 2012

Yes, WVGA was fine, in April 2011 when 90% of high end smartphones on the market were WVGA. But in April 2012 qHD was practically the norm for high end smartphones being released (not old models still on the market) and people are using a different "bare minimum" to base their purchases off of. The HTC Rezound was released with a 720p 4.3" LCD screen in November 2011. The Galaxy Nexus was released practically the same month, so I'm actually being generous here...

ClearBlack isn't that big a deal, SAMOLED+ is easily viewable during the day (that's what ClearBlack is mostly for, sunlight legibility). The screen is barely better than what's in the GS2. ClearBlack can be added to both AMOLED and LCD screens. In fact IIRC the screen in the Lumia I think is a Samsung screen with ClearBlack added to it - I may be wrong on that, though...

Sometimes the specs are a big gimicky, but time tends to fix that. The original GS had BT3+HS and it was gimmicky back then since no other devices were carrying it, but as time went on it became a lot more useful than it initially was. The same goes for WiFi Direct and other technologies like NFC, BT 4.0, etc. ****, even FFCs were called a gimmick back in early 2010 here, now people will avoid a device for ommiting one...

Remember, contracts are two years, and most of those people you referenced buy on contract (doesn't Canada have carriers with 3 year contracts, too?).

 

[cckgz4]

It's not about specs if the OS is optimized for the hardware, hence why Apple and Microsoft got it right with old and lower specs. Again, Android has SO many people sprung on the word "specs" they like to throw it out to make an argument. Why do you think that WP needs an upgrade in specs? The Titan II has one of the biggest cameras (and definitely the biggest out of any Android device), the OS runs with little to no lag across almost the entire line, etc. IMO, the ONLY reason why Microsoft should try and jump on the spec wagon is to satisfy the online community because of Android BURNING through specs and BURNING people's experiences with their first gen devices being under optimized for all the features Android brought to the table. People are spewing out quad core and what not because it's a trend, not a necessity. If we were talking about apps and screen resolution, then I'd probably be siding with the detractors, but we're talking about throwing in more cores and Mhz bump..for what?

Oh and add NFC as well for something I'd possibly agree with (which the Lumia 900 has overseas in China)

 

[cckgz4]

The general consumer wouldn't know what a core, SuperAmoled screen, or a 20 MP camera could do. All they know is that it goes fast, it's a pretty screen, and it has great pictures. The latter sentence is what Microsoft's ploy is and is what creates mostly a unified experience.

 

[freestaterocker]

You missed the point...

GS2: Released April 2011
L900: Released April 2012

Yes, WVGA was fine, in April 2011 when 90% of high end smartphones on the market were WVGA. But in April 2012 qHD was practically the norm for high end smartphones being released (not old models still on the market) and people are using a different "bare minimum" to base their purchases off of. The HTC Rezound was released with a 720p 4.3" LCD screen in November 2011. The Galaxy Nexus was released practically the same month, so I'm actually being generous here...

ClearBlack isn't that big a deal, SAMOLED+ is easily viewable during the day (that's what ClearBlack is mostly for, sunlight legibility). The screen is barely better than what's in the GS2. ClearBlack can be added to both AMOLED and LCD screens. In fact IIRC the screen in the Lumia I think is a Samsung screen with ClearBlack added to it - I may be wrong on that, though...

Sometimes the specs are a big gimicky, but time tends to fix that. The original GS had BT3+HS and it was gimmicky back then since no other devices were carrying it, but as time went on it became a lot more useful than it initially was. The same goes for WiFi Direct and other technologies like NFC, BT 4.0, etc. ****, even FFCs were called a gimmick back in early 2010 here, now people will avoid a device for ommiting one...

Remember, contracts are two years, and most of those people you referenced buy on contract (doesn't Canada have carriers with 3 year contracts, too?).

My point was simply that non-techy people will still buy a WVGA phone, as evidenced by the fact that that particular phone is still selling like hotcakes.

And yes, we do have 3-year terms here, with comparable subsidies to American 2-year terms, and it sucks.

 

[tekhna]

We can argue about why WP7 has failed til the cows come home, the point is that no one has a clear and sustainable argument about why no one even knows WP7 exists.
There are infinite variations of arguments:
1. Specs
2. The "Windows" name
3. Too late to the party
4. Actual consumers don't like the UI
5. Retail sales staff
6. Carrier support
7. Lack of support by Microsoft
8. Lack of support by OEMs

There are probably more. Point is that it's death by a thousand cuts without any single clear cause and arguing about it is pretty pointless.
In the end, Microsoft has to throw everything at the wall and hope it sticks, but they haven't--it's not really clear to me how serious Microsoft is about WP7. Metro yes, WP7 no.

And at the end of the day, people just keep moving the goalposts.

1. Wait for Mango.
2. Wait for Tango.
3. Wait for WM to be EOLed completely
4. Wait for Nokia to release the 900.
5. No wait, wait for the 610, 710. Developing markets! (or something...)
6. Wait for WP8, WP will totally take off then.

There's only so many times you can move the goalposts, yeah?

 

[freestaterocker]

We can argue about why WP7 has failed til the cows come home, the point is that no one has a clear and sustainable argument about why no one even knows WP7 exists.
There are infinite variations of arguments:
1. Specs
2. The "Windows" name
3. Too late to the party
4. Actual consumers don't like the UI
5. Retail sales staff
6. Carrier support
7. Lack of support by Microsoft
8. Lack of support by OEMs

There are probably more. Point is that it's death by a thousand cuts without any single clear cause and arguing about it is pretty pointless.
In the end, Microsoft has to throw everything at the wall and hope it sticks, but they haven't--it's not really clear to me how serious Microsoft is about WP7. Metro yes, WP7 no.

And at the end of the day, people just keep moving the goalposts.

1. Wait for Mango.
2. Wait for Tango.
3. Wait for WM to be OELed completely
4. Wait for Nokia to release the 900.
5. No wait, wait for the 610, 710. Developing markets! (or something...)
6. Wait for WP8, WP will totally take off then.

There's only so many times you can move the goalposts, yeah?

You make valid points, but I truly believe we are headed in the right direction. Thanks to all the recent advertising WP is starting to gain mindshare. Reps I talk to are changing their tune. People on the street are starting to know about WP, that it's different and that it's good. Devices are selling, even if not as well as fans of the platform would like. Don't get me wrong, it's still uphill from here, but I can faintly see the peak...

 

[oldgaius]

In the end, Microsoft has to throw everything at the wall and hope it sticks, but they haven't--it's not really clear to me how serious Microsoft is about WP7. Metro yes, WP7 no.

This is the key point as far as I'm concerned. Microsoft should be fighting the battle on many levels, but their Windows Phone push is nigh on invisible. The only advertising I can think of was when WP first launched, but it was an abstract ad with text overlays on an odd video... not really showing why the platform was worth buying into.

The current Windows Phone Dares (similar to Smoked) campaign is a nice high street move, but this should be backed up by TV and internet advertising. Just look at the low viewing figures of the YouTube videos.

The platform is really solid and clean, but it took Nokia's advertising and hardware design to get me to jump onboard. Even when I did move to a Lumia 800, the sales assistant looked at me incredulously and wanted to know why I was switching from an iPhone. Microsoft really needs to push for mindshare.

Edit: Nokia are really trying to push hard (e.g. giving away Monster headphones, apps vouchers, experience days, etc.), advertising the Lumia brand everywhere but Microsoft need to pull their weight if the platform is going to have widespread success.

 

[foosball]

Moving goal posts is a problem for Nokia in the short-run and a problem for MS in the long-run. But it's not clear that MS's success is entirely contingent on Nokia. Preferred partner status is not "till death do us part" status.

MS still has time to carve out out market share but that doesn't mean Nokia does.

 

[tekhna]

Moving goal posts is a problem for Nokia in the short-run and a problem for MS in the long-run. But it's not clear that MS's success is entirely contingent on Nokia. Preferred partner status is not "till death do us part" status.

MS still has time to carve out out market share but that doesn't mean Nokia does.

I mean, yeah, Nokia is a dead man walking. But Microsoft really needs to get some traction going, otherwise how can they continue justifying the expense of WP?

 

[fatclue_98]

Let's put it into perspective:

Galaxy S II

Announced 2011, February
Status Available. Released 2011, April

On AT&T (US Carriers always lag in availability of Samsung devices)

Announced 2011, August
Status Available. Released 2011, October

Yes, WVGA was still common - even on newer devices in April 2011.

Lumia 900

Announced 2012, January
Status Available. Released 2012, April

So 1 year after GS2 launch, and 6 months after it came to AT&T Nokia wants to compete with:

1. Old QC processor vs. the Exynos in the AT&T GS2
2. A Worse Camera, and it only does 720p video instead of 1080p (IIRC, Correct me if I'm Wrong)
3. A. 1.3 MP VGA FFC
4. Barely a better screen, if better at all - Lower PPI due to screen size difference
5. BT 2.1 vs 3.0+HS
6. No WiFi Direct
7. No NFC
8. 512 MB vs. 1GB RAM
9. No SD Card Slot
10. [Subjective] WP7 instead of Android, when Ecosystems matter more now than ever

The GSII is being eclipsed by the GS3 and you can't even buy it in AT&T corporate stores anymore (only the Skyrocket), but the Lumia is still there going strong with specs from 2 years ago.

The only spec that the Lumia 900 bests is the fact that it has LTE (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), 0.2" bigger screen (if we're disregarding the Skyrocket), and the fact that it's a WP7 device (which is entirely subjective). Oh, and it has a bigger battery (Again, if disregarding the Skyrocket).

There is significant spec lag in the WP7 device ecosystem compared to Android and iOS.

App issue has been discussed ad nauseum. There will always be those people who seriously think the browser is all they need. The Playbook fans on crackberry thought the same thing, and that didn't turn that device into a success.

Your apples to apples assessment is logical if taken at face value. The spec argument has also been discussed ad nauseum so let's leave that alone. I just want to address one sentence in your post and that is the BB Playbook. The sole reasoning for its existence was the bet RIM made regarding security. Lose the PB and you've lost a paperweight was their thinking. Sound reasoning but the buyers thought they were getting a full-fledged tablet. What they got was a real fancy Celio Redfly. Not to knock either device since I use my Redfly on a daily basis along with my trusty HP WinMo device. BTW, could there be the most remote possibility of getting that device to work with WP7? I don't possess the developmental skills to even think about doing this but maybe someone does.

 

[foosball]

I mean, yeah, Nokia is a dead man walking. But Microsoft really needs to get some traction going, otherwise how can they continue justifying the expense of WP?

Who knows? As long as MS considers it essential to their long term future so I'd venture indefinitely... From a business perspective this will provide interesting watching for a real-time case study.

From an end user perspective and anecdotally I don't have time to wait and decided to burn my available upgrade on high end Android hardware. But having experienced the competition I would jump back to WP in a heartbeat with the right hardware.

 

[sinime]

I mean, yeah, Nokia is a dead man walking. But Microsoft really needs to get some traction going, otherwise how can they continue justifying the expense of WP?

The same way justified the expense of the original XBox? It worked out in the end on that one.