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  1. boneycat's Avatar
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       #1  
    So I'm reading this 4 page dribble of an anti-microsoft article about how MS got boycotted from carriers and duped Nokia with win8 not supporting current phones when I thought to myself "I bet the author is some isheep fanboy". He made some interesting points like how carriers hate skype and after MS bought skype hated and refused to sell win7 phones. I always wondered why it took MS so long to bring skype to its own phones. Anyways I'm curious to see what people here think of the article.

    What Now? Microsoft Throws Nokia Under the Bus - Bright Side Of News*
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  2. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #2  
    I don't know what you mean with "dribble", and also I don't understand the article to be "anti-Microsoft" if you mean to say the article was written just to say negative things about Microsoft. In any case, it lists many more negative or at least problematic things about Nokia, right?

    The autor, Tomi Ahonen, is a true mobile industry insider, and there is always much to learn from his (usually quite long) articles about how the mobile industry works. The fact that he also usually has quite strong opinions should not prevent you from profiting from his articles.
  3. boneycat's Avatar
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       #3  
    Don't know how to be more exact then "dribble". Seriously 4 pages worth of crap. I've heard of him and his pro -iphone bias. You don't understand the article to be "anti-microsoft"? Maybe you should re-read it then.
  4. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by boneycat1 View Post
    Seriously 4 pages worth of crap.
    Ok, fair enough, your opinion. Why not leave it at that? Are you on the lookout for confirmation? Need consolation? Put down that crap, avoid anything from Tomi in the future, problem solved.
  5. cedarlog's Avatar
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    #5  
    sorry not going to waste my time on Anti-Microsoft Article
  6. AngryNil's Avatar
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    #6  
    OP, perhaps you mean drivel?

    rbrunner - I never knew that "strong opinions" included bending the truth. Oh, and getting things totally wrong. First hit on a Google search I did to look up the guy's track record:

    Telling me to F%&^k off, calling Skype Boycott Qs “utter rubish
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  7. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by irlju View Post
    First hit on a Google search I did to look up the guy's track record
    Interesting controversy.

    Anyway, the relentless fast march forward of the mobile industry that constantly leaves big victims in its wake is a very interesting and important subject, and I still say that in Tomi's articles you can read interesting things about that.

    Likewise of the dangers of voice calls over data traffic like of course Skype can do for mobile carriers. This threatens one of their core sources of income, and it is hardly surprising that they don't welcome things like Skype phones with open arms. Whether they actively and directly boycott them is another, but still interesting question, if you ask me.
  8. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #8  
    Had a brief look through the article, and i don't think it says a single thing i havn't read numerous times in the last couple of weeks.

    The mobile industry is very interesting at the moment. WP7 could be dead now, and thus Nokia are in the poo until WP8 comes out. HTC, Samsung, etc don't care, as WP7 doesn't keep them alive.

    This could all be a ploy to buy Nokia dirt cheap, just in time for potential recovery when WP8 comes out.

    With Blackberry falling over quickly, timing is key for Microsoft at the moment. Nokia have a couple of months of peace to come out well with WP8. Keep in Microsoft's pocket, and make sure they release the best WP8 devices.

    Lets also not forget, Android has just detailed their new version, and they have some seriously nice hardware out there at the moment. And with the iPhone 5 due out soon, WP8 and its many OEM's need to come out with something exceptional.

    The specs of the rumoured WP8 devices look pretty dull. The initial devices look very little different to WP7 devices, other than multi-core. Unless WP8 is as well optimised as WP7 was, WP8 is going to be still born against iOS & Android.

    The Grim reaper is at Nokia's door right now. I completely agree with the writter of that article on that. To me WP8 looks like its the OS WP7 always wanted to be, and with Blackberry failing, i think Nokia and Microsoft together can come out strong, but they need to do it quickly, and do it right.
  9. aubreyq's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    Had a brief look through the article, and i don't think it says a single thing i havn't read numerous times in the last couple of weeks.

    The mobile industry is very interesting at the moment. WP7 could be dead now, and thus Nokia are in the poo until WP8 comes out. HTC, Samsung, etc don't care, as WP7 doesn't keep them alive.

    This could all be a ploy to buy Nokia dirt cheap, just in time for potential recovery when WP8 comes out.

    With Blackberry falling over quickly, timing is key for Microsoft at the moment. Nokia have a couple of months of peace to come out well with WP8. Keep in Microsoft's pocket, and make sure they release the best WP8 devices.

    Lets also not forget, Android has just detailed their new version, and they have some seriously nice hardware out there at the moment. And with the iPhone 5 due out soon, WP8 and its many OEM's need to come out with something exceptional.

    The specs of the rumoured WP8 devices look pretty dull. The initial devices look very little different to WP7 devices, other than multi-core. Unless WP8 is as well optimised as WP7 was, WP8 is going to be still born against iOS & Android.

    The Grim reaper is at Nokia's door right now. I completely agree with the writter of that article on that. To me WP8 looks like its the OS WP7 always wanted to be, and with Blackberry failing, i think Nokia and Microsoft together can come out strong, but they need to do it quickly, and do it right.
    Agree with almost everything you stated here, except I don't think we have to worry about WP8 not being optimized as WP7. It will be. Although we haven't seen the WP8 hardware, you are right that it has to be exceptional out of the gate.

    Blackberry failing is pretty much why Microsoft still has a chance at increasing the Windows Phone marketshare. Nokia, on the other hand, better produce a phone that everyone wants to own. The Lumia line hasn't done that, at least not in the U.S.
  10. aubreyq's Avatar
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    #10  
    For the record, I read the Ahonen's entire article. The whole "Skype boycott" thing seems rather silly to me. True, Nokia's current status is not good, but I'm not sure how staying with Symbian/Meego or going with Android would've helped them. Android would've helped them in the short term, but then again Nokia would've become just another Android handset maker and I don't know if that would've worked in the long term.
  11. boneycat's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    Ok, fair enough, your opinion. Why not leave it at that? Are you on the lookout for confirmation? Need consolation? Put down that crap, avoid anything from Tomi in the future, problem solved.
    Wow, I thought the whole point of a forum was to incite conversation. Guess that's not the case with you. Are you one of those "shoot the messenger" type people?

    You said your peace, why not leave it at that?

    To the other posters who actually added content and perspective to the conversation, there are lot more stories about the MS and Nokia partnership. They give the impression that it's MS throwing Nokia under the bus when in fact it was Nokia possibly not living up to expectations, especially after receiving $750m from MS. Perhaps they are cutting their losses early.
  12. tekhna's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by boneycat1 View Post
    Wow, I thought the whole point of a forum was to incite conversation. Guess that's not the case with you. Are you one of those "shoot the messenger" type people?

    You said your peace, why not leave it at that?

    To the other posters who actually added content and perspective to the conversation, there are lot more stories about the MS and Nokia partnership. They give the impression that it's MS throwing Nokia under the bus when in fact it was Nokia possibly not living up to expectations, especially after receiving $750m from MS. Perhaps they are cutting their losses early.
    Nah, this is a shoot-the-messenger forum. People screamed at me when I said exactly this--that Microsoft had killed Nokia. Nokia's continuing success was dependent on either selling a lot of Lumias, or being Microsoft's preferred partner, or both. They've done neither, and they're hosed as a result.
  13. Laura Knotek's Avatar

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    #13  
    I think it was intentional. Microsoft probably wants to buy Nokia once it gets cheap enough.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
  14. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by boneycat1 View Post
    ... when in fact it was Nokia possibly not living up to expectations, especially after receiving $750m from MS. Perhaps they are cutting their losses early.
    Do you mean that maybe Microsoft is cutting its losses early and step back somewhat regarding their partnership with Nokia?

    Well maybe, but if this partnership does not succeed one way or the other, I wonder who would build, market and sell the necessary millions of WP7 and WP8 smartphones, with the effort and "enthusiasm" needed for success. As I see it, there are several companies who could pick up, but they are either rather deep in the Android camp, have already own plans or are in deep trouble themselves.
  15. tekhna's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    Do you mean that maybe Microsoft is cutting its losses early and step back somewhat regarding their partnership with Nokia?

    Well maybe, but if this partnership does not succeed one way or the other, I wonder who would build, market and sell the necessary millions of WP7 and WP8 smartphones, with the effort and "enthusiasm" needed for success. As I see it, there are several companies who could pick up, but they are either rather deep in the Android camp, have already own plans or are in deep trouble themselves.
    That's exactly what Microsoft is doing.
    See, for example, their new tablet, which is produced by Microsoft. I think it's pretty obvious that both Google and Microsoft are trying to exercise more direct, Apple-like control over their products, as we've seen with the Nexus 7 and the Surface.
  16. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    See, for example, their new tablet, which is produced by Microsoft. I think it's pretty obvious that both Google and Microsoft are trying to exercise more direct, Apple-like control over their products, as we've seen with the Nexus 7 and the Surface.
    Try they might, and I really wish them good luck because more competition makes better products. But I don't think it's really Microsoft producing the tablet, they will outsource this to China like pretty much everybody else, and we well see whether they manage to get a partner that delivers reliably, on time and on budget and can scale up fast if necessary.

    Massive electronics manufacturing capacity does not fall from the sky just because I order it for me :)
  17. tekhna's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    Try they might, and I really wish them good luck because more competition makes better products. But I don't think it's really Microsoft producing the tablet, they will outsource this to China like pretty much everybody else, and we well see whether they manage to get a partner that delivers reliably, on time and on budget and can scale up fast if necessary.

    Massive electronics manufacturing capacity does not fall from the sky just because I order it for me :)
    Yeah, the Nexus 7 looks like a real dog.
    Nexus 7 review | The Verge
    Google Nexus 7 Tablet Review: The New Best Way to Spend 200 Bucks
    Nexus 7 review: the best $200 tablet you can buy -- Engadget

    Oh wait, no, everybody is raving about it.
  18. AKA Preluva's Avatar
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    #18  
    This is just what I'm talking about. Let's face it most of the sheeple are down with the rotten apple or hemroid, everything else will get little consideration. So for this reason MS AND Nokia needs something innovative and distinctive. The Phon-let or FonePad idea is it! As far as I know there are only two companies making them, Samsung and ASUS. Now that MS has the Surface Nokia had better be working on adding phone guts to it if they want to hit a grandslam with WP8. If the phon-let idea takes off you better believe Crapple will add it to the iPad and then it's game over for everybody else. :P
  19. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    I don't know what you mean with "dribble", and also I don't understand the article to be "anti-Microsoft" if you mean to say the article was written just to say negative things about Microsoft. In any case, it lists many more negative or at least problematic things about Nokia, right?

    The autor, Tomi Ahonen, is a true mobile industry insider, and there is always much to learn from his (usually quite long) articles about how the mobile industry works. The fact that he also usually has quite strong opinions should not prevent you from profiting from his articles.
    He means drivel, and he's right. The guy who wrote the article proposes that "smart move" for Nokia is to pull MeeGo out of the trash bin. Ridiculous. That would be a guaranteed way for Nokia to fail. No one outside a small group of European fan boys even knows what MeeGo is. The rest of the world doesn't know and doesn't care. Windows Phone has a hard enough time as it is being the "third option" and that's with the massive muscle and money of Microsoft behind it and the synergy they can bring with Windows 8. And this guy thinks Meego is going to save Nokia? Please.

    Furthermore, he mentions that Meego is built on a "linux base" so it would be compatible with Android apps, another piece of nonsense that shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. My TiVO runs on a Linux kernel too, will it run Android phone apps?


    He's not a businessman and doesn't really even seem to understand the business he's writing about. He makes some interesting points, but they aren't well supported and it's clear he has an agenda from the beginning. Just another hater who thinks Elop was a Microsoft "trojan horse" and if only Nokia could have stuck with Meego and Symbian everything would be great.

    And that is why he's a blogger and not the CEO of a multinational corporation. LOL
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  20. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    Nah, this is a shoot-the-messenger forum. People screamed at me when I said exactly this--that Microsoft had killed Nokia. Nokia's continuing success was dependent on either selling a lot of Lumias, or being Microsoft's preferred partner, or both. They've done neither, and they're hosed as a result.
    It's probably just a little premature to predict Nokia's demise, don't you think?

    Oh wait that's right, you don't think, you just spout dire predictions, crap all over Windows Phone and laud the miracles of Android every chance you get. :lol:
  21. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    Lets also not forget, Android has just detailed their new version, and they have some seriously nice hardware out there at the moment.
    Too bad most of the Android phones out now don't even have the LAST OS revision. They're still shipping phones with 2.3 Gingerbread that have no clear upgrade path to Ice Cream Sandwich 4.0, much less Jellybean.

    Google's amazing next-gen OS isn't that scary when they can't even manage to get more than 7% of their users up to the LAST update that came out more than a year ago.

    They'll be on Android Banana Cream Pie 9.0 with 3D widgets by the time 50% of Android users are even on ICS.

    And people worry about Windows Phone being "fragmented" :lol:
  22. tekhna's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    It's probably just a little premature to predict Nokia's demise, don't you think?

    Oh wait that's right, you don't think, you just spout dire predictions, crap all over Windows Phone and laud the miracles of Android every chance you get. :lol:
    Nope, Android has real problems, and I'll fess up to them every single time.

    Edit: I'd be happy to make a comprehensive list of the problems I've identified with Android. I'm no fanboy, it just happens to be the best solution out there. Unless WP8 takes off.
    Last edited by tekhna; 07-03-2012 at 09:00 AM.
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  23. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    Nope, Android has real problems, and I'll fess up to them every single time.

    Edit: I'd be happy to make a comprehensive list of the problems I've identified with Android. I'm no fanboy, it just happens to be the best solution out there. Unless WP8 takes off.
    Cool, I'm sure they'd love to hear from you about that on an Android forum. This isn't an Android forum however.
  24. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #24  
    Hopefully HTC get on board and start releasing some seriously major hardware for WP8. I'm expecting some octo-core devices from them, with 80MPixel snappers, etc. Get the specs right, make the Android specs look like rubbish, and show the world Microsoft is a force to be reckoned with. They're completely toast in the Android segment (Samsung have now sealed themselves as the Android of what the iPhone is to iOS), but there's still promise in WP7.

    If they come and support Windows Phone primarily, I think they can be strong about it, and be on a par with Nokia. Just with different targeting strategies. Nokia goes for looks, HTC goes for specs. It would be a strong tandem and would mean two different ways to advertise WP8 and likely give them the marketshare, and mindshare, that they need.

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
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    #25  
    First off, please allow me to get two pet peeves off my chest before I comment on this article:

    1) I truly appreciate boneycat1 bringing this here to discuss. Mainly, because I find it fascinating how in this day and age of instant information, a ton of people are more scared then ever to hear opposing opinions. Ideologue's are born from only listening to opinions that are in agreement to them. I did not start off a Windows Phone fan, I didn't think much of it. It was after I researched all OS's I got excited about WP 7. For us to sit here on WP Central and not listen to other opinions is to give Microsoft a blank check with our minds and wallets. I do not want to do that, not with anything. I welcome being challenged.

    2) I believe WP Central as a community will grow as WP 8 comes out. As such, I really hope and Pray we allow opinions (and trolls. Oh yes, the Spies from other OS's will show up. You know: the ideologues whose self worth is based on the success of their phone) without taking personal shots. Some of our forums have been negative lately. That bothers me. Disagree away. Tell someone point blank they are wrong. But, can we skip the shots against their intellegence and their intentions?

    Rant over... Thank you for your patience..

    As for this article, there is little doubt it is "anti-Microsoft", and written to incite controversy. First off, the web site (BSN) has an "Apple" tab, and..... the rest seem to be crammed into other catagories. Pretty much tips the cap which way this author and this web site is leaning. Considering the loyalty and success of the iPhone and iPad, I get it. But, still puts this article on notice.

    The second thing this article completely ignores is the direction Microsoft has gone since Windows Mobile was killed. Their entire software design team has been pushing to this Windows 8 launch across all hardware. In some ways, MS has been thrown a bone in that Tablets up to now have been poor sellers with two exceptions: the iPad and Kindle Fire. The landscape, especially for professionals, is wide open. Laptops will never be replaced, but there is a market for Tablets to replace Notebooks, which are the small, portable tool of choice right now. Also, Tablets are the choice for portable entertainment. Huge market, just ripe for sales to jump for the right products.

    But what Mr. Ahonen misses entirely is that WP will not bring users to Tablets and Windows 8, Windows 8 and Tablet sales will bring users to WP. The Ecosystem is what is being pushed here. I truly believe that WP 7 was MS's test run. They entered a new mobile phase, a new UI, updates, building a support system, and get people onboard. Now, the Ecosystem is in place and the updates have been tried and experienced and hardware partners and carriers are lined up. Now, MS is going all in.

    It is a huge gamble, and one that has the chance to fail. What risk doesn't? There are a few solid points Mr. Ahonen brings up, but he does it from a "Microsoft is a horrid, evil intentioned company" point of view. And none of them are new, like many of our previous posters have said.

    Lastly, for ANYONE who thinks MS wants to buy Nokia: Windows 8 is a monsterous undertaking. If MS was going to buy Nokia at it's cheapest while MS has the most resources, IT HAS TO BE NOW OR BEFORE W 8 IS LAUNCHED. Otherwise, the logic is MS wants WP 8 to fail so Nokia is cheaper. That may be the least logical thing I have ever heard.

    Okay. Shutting up. Done typing. Sorry to eat up an entire page.

    View is nice from this soapbox......
    Last edited by snowmutt; 07-04-2012 at 09:27 AM.
    A closed mouth gathers no feet.
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