- 08-30-2012, 10:42 PM #1
Let's try this again. First, my apologies to anyone offended by my first post.
Anyways, the point I was making is that some of the Nokia enthusiasts seem to think Nokia is some Windows Phone savior, when in fact, it's just another OEM pushing it's product. Nokia didn't adopt the Windows Phone OS out of kindness to MS. It adopted the Windows Phone OS because it was DYING. Nokia had no choice, and it saw Windows Phone OS as it's only hope for survival. It was already too far behind other Android OEMs, so Windows Phone OS with the backing of MS was obviously the best choice for NOKIA. So I'm not sure why so many here treat Nokia as if they are a company that was leading the smartphone world and everything was amazing and successful with Symbian but just decided they wanted to support Windows Phone out of the goodness of their hearts.
The other OEMs such as Samsung and HTC, I would say are even more important at this stage. They are the ones who will take Windows Phone to the next stage in market share. The Lumia 800/900 has not been as successful as Nokia and MS needed it to be. Market share is still very incredibly low. So when I hear some of the Nokia enthusiast say things that put down the other OEMs and would rather only have Nokia make Windows Phones, I gotta just shake my head. In fact it was Samsung and HTC that were on the Windows Phone train first. As I said, Nokia only came on as a last ditch effort to save their own skin. I think Samsung and HTC putting in a strong effort with their new devices says a lot about them since everything is great in the Android world for them. Especially for Sammy, they pretty much own the Android Market. They're not some sinking ship, looking for a last attempt to save their company. They're coming on with all their momentum and they're gonna do some real good for the OS. So there's no need for the hate and best to just give them the kudos they deserve. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on any OEM. But I think MS needs all 3 manufacturers. They need to be putting out hardware on all levels.
Again, no offense to any of the Nokia enthusiasts, and nothing wrong with preferring it as they make a great product. But Nokia alone is not gonna give MS the market share to be competitive. And if you truly care about this OS succeeding, I don't see how you can see any different.
Last edited by samzer; 08-31-2012 at 12:29 AM.
- 08-31-2012, 12:30 AM #2
I know u have put a lot of research and effort in writing this post here. But, I would like to clear somethings.
No onehere is waiting for ONLY Nokia. I for one am waiting for HTC. It is my personal preference. I like their designs.
Secondly whoever said Nokia is a savior of WP8 is living in a cave. MS should garner as many OEMs as it can as it needs to gain a foothold in the market. Agree?
Nokia, like I mentioned in one of my posts, has a history attached to it. May be that's why people like or prefer Nokia more. Add to that Lumia line's of devices that, contarary to what you said, have been quite successful. ANd on the other hand there is Sammy. Call me a hater but Samsung is a Chinese company that has, very politely put, mediocre designs and lusterless devices (IMHO).
Secondly, I keep telling my wife this that just because everyone is doing/liking something, doesnt mean we should do it too. Just because people are liking Sammy, doesnt mean I join the herd.
So its as much a prerogative of Nokia as it is for Samsung. Neither Nokia nor Samsung or HTC are supporting WP8 cause they love Steve Balmer's attitude towards life or the way he dresses.
In the end of the day, it is business and they are in it for a profit. Again, no offence to anyone, specially Samzer.
- 08-31-2012, 12:49 AM #3
Actually let me clear a few things as well.
Last edited by samzer; 08-31-2012 at 12:55 AM.
- 08-31-2012, 01:04 AM #4
- 08-31-2012, 01:06 AM #5
Many of us have had great experiences with Nokia products. Nokia was the top handset maker in the world for quite a while. And they did it with quality and style.
Nokia makes great devices. They've earned their fans.
When it comes to WP, Nokia is the only OEM to commit 100% to Windows Phone. Their entire strategy is dependent on Windows Phone.
Samsung and HTC have been lukewarm with WP.
Is it really any wonder that people expect devices from a truly committed partner with a long history of exceptional quality to be the "must have?"
The contempt that you have for people who favor Nokia is mind boggling to me. You can be a Samsung fan if you've had a good experience with their products. You can be an HTC fan. But the fact that there are more Nokia fans seems to bug you.
How about just letting people like what they like?
- 08-31-2012, 01:15 AM #6
Actually holding a Samsung WP vs a Lumia is like night and day. It's not BS. The fact that you can be so dismissive of those preferences and somehow pretend that there is no difference shows that you're jot trying to be intellectually honest here.
First off HTC is Chinese and Samsung is Korean. Not that it matters to me, but just need to make sure we're straight on this. Secondly, Samsung also have a history attached to it. So that point is moot. And another moot point, design. I will never debate what a good looking phone is. I don't know why anyone would ever try to debate design. People like what they like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. End of story.
Ummm...so I hope your not assuming everyone is buying Sammy just to be like everyone else. You know, there is the chance people are buying because they have a desirable handset.
- 08-31-2012, 01:34 AM #7
Let me repeat, I don't debate the subjective. That would be look and feel. I'm not sure if you even understood anything I posted. Did you not read my post? I've stated more than once there's nothing wrong with having a preference for Nokia. I said they make a great product. I honestly don't care how many people prefer them. I don't care about decades of history either, nor does the buying public. Apple, one of the last to come up with a phone, is living proof. Do you seriously think people walk into a store and say, I'll take the handset from the company with the longest history in mobile phones. For all practice purposes NOBODY does this because NOBODY cares. We are living in the PRESENT. So again, MOOT point. But let's be honest, it's only the Nokia enthusiast that enjoy bashing other OEMs. Why is that? Does it make you feel better about Nokia? They prefer only Nokia to be making Windows Phone. They'll call any non-Nokia device crap. This is my point. You don't see anyone else doing this. I only debate facts, and one fact is Nokia isn't all that hot right now. If they were as great as many here want to believe, they wouldn't be losing market share, they would be reporting massive losses, they wouldn't desperately be on Windows Phone and they definitely wouldn't call themselves a "burning platform." This is a fact and this is my point.
Last edited by samzer; 08-31-2012 at 01:51 AM.
- 08-31-2012, 01:46 AM #8
They just expect a lot more from Nokia. There was a poll here somewhere of who is your fav OEM and Nokia got the highest vote.
That's cause people here are waiting for hardware on which their fav OS will be riding on. If it is Nokia, so be it. Like I said, Nokia has a heritage. Again, I am not so eager for Nokia as I am for HTC.
Fair enough. But I am sorry I just dont see class in Samsung. Be it their screens, their back covers, the overall device.
may be I am...seeing the response Ativ S is getting. YOu never know. Remember when S3 first came out? People were like "YUCK" now everyone has one...
- 08-31-2012, 01:52 AM #10
08-31-2012, 01:57 AM #11
- 150 Posts
Just to turn things a bit, for the sake of discussion: Is Samsung better or worse than other Android OEMs*? Looking at Android discussions, I get the impression that the Samsung users are the ones that are most convinced that their Galaxy is The Android phone.
*Lets pretend that we're still a week before the Apple verdict... ;)
- 08-31-2012, 02:01 AM #12
- 08-31-2012, 02:04 AM #13
- 08-31-2012, 02:15 AM #14
Ooops..looks like I need to watch out... :D
Its ok dude...peolpe are outspoken and blunt. YOu have to deal with it. No one here hates any one..believe me, if u think this is bad, there are worse forums out there...
- 08-31-2012, 02:27 AM #15
And you're missing the point about history.
People don't care about Nokia for the mere fact that it has a history. People like Nokia because during that long history, many of us had great experiences owning and using Nokia products.
Are you going to claim that high customer satisfaction isn't relevant?
But let's be honest, it's only the Nokia enthusiast that enjoy bashing other OEMs.
That sentence might as well say, "Let's talk about blue, red is a great color."
Why is that? Does it make you feel better about Nokia? They prefer only Nokia to be making Windows Phone. They'll call any non-Nokia device crap. This is my point.
My Focus was decent. It did feel flimsy though. And the SD card slot they put in there with absolutely no support was pretty dumb. Bit overall I liked it. I would consider Samsung again. But I also know that they aren't committed to putting their best into WP. They're half-assing it. So before I can even consider looking at getting the next Samsung, I have to see what the company that is fully committed is going to bring. Doesn't that make sense?
As for HTC... My Titan has a nice screen. Other than that, the build quality is pretty crappy. Speaker is really bad. Reception is bad. Camera is good though. USB port flimsy. Wife's Titan broke after 2 months of mild use. Pins in my USB port broke. HTC told me that if I ever used my phone while it was plugged in, that's considered customer abuse. I had to ask them to clarify that 3 times. Ridiculous.
These are my honest opinions. Have you ever considered that others are giving their HONEST opinions? And that these opinions may be grounded in experience and fact?
You don't see anyone else doing this. I only debate facts, and one fact is Nokia isn't all that hot right now. If they were as great as many here want to believe, they wouldn't be losing market share, they would be reporting massive losses, they wouldn't desperately be on Windows Phone and they definitely wouldn't call themselves a "burning platform." This is a fact and this is my point.
Nokia's market position isn't because of a lack of quality. It was because of a lack of foresight. They didn't take the smartphone market, and smartphone ecosystems, seriously. Now they are in transition.
It was only about 3 years ago that Nokia was still the biggest handset maker in the world. With transition comes challenges.
But what does that have to do with people liking Nokia quality? Whether Nokia is #1, #3, or #10, the fact is that many people love their products. And Nokia quality can spoil people and cause them to judge other handsets by Nokia standards.
Last edited by Winning Guy; 08-31-2012 at 02:35 AM.
08-31-2012, 02:27 AM #16
- 571 Posts
I don't think anyone is profoundly unaware that Nokia is pushing WP for its own interests. I think people on this forum still are aware the deal MS struck with Nokia and how such a deal was really meant to benefit both parties.
With that said, I think Nokia is viewed as a "savior" more for the fact that 1) it has a history, 2) it's been the only OEM that's been pushing WP because it has so much to lose/because of the deal with MS, and 3) the lackluster effort by the other OEMs through WP7's lifecycle.
Were the situations different on #2 and especially #3, I don't think you'd see so much bashing by these enthusiasts you speak of.
But really it's nothing that's out of the ordinary. It is simply human nature.
Also you're kind of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with your line of questioning because people don't just like an OEM on "objective" facts. A person's likes, favorites, or disinterests are subjective to begin with.
- 08-31-2012, 04:28 AM #17
People like Nokia because they are the only OEM to push windows phone. Is it for their benefit as well? Yes. But we know that. No one denies that. Is that your problem with them? You think because them promoting the platform for their bottom line shouldn't be praised? And look what they brought to tplaplate: apps, their own software, and attention of consumers. It's not a bad thing to embrace it
- 08-31-2012, 09:01 AM #19
opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one... so let them have one.
i personally like nokia for a number of reasons;
1- the loyalty to the platform we love
2- the hardware is superior to many other phones
3- the packaged apps they include
4- the design is original, and beautiful
5- the brand they are making for themselves
6- stephen elop
7- the loyalty to their customers ( ex. the $100 rebate for the signal issue)
most of that cant be said for phones like htc or samsung... all their phones look alike, they are cheaper feeling. and they are NOT loyal to windows whatsoever. there is nothing exlusive about them. samsung still has done nothing about the hardware issues with the gs3, they have turned a blind eye to it just like apple did with the antenna issues with the iphone 4... so your original point isnt accurate. and i agree MS needs all three OEms on board, but i am more confident in a nokia purchase...
- 08-31-2012, 09:11 AM #20
I am a WP fanboy, so that's not up for discussion.
Samsung- Their devices are too light (subjective) and feel cheap to me (objective). Will take a look at their new offering, but a little concerned about an aluminum shell and reception. I don't hate Samsung. Just never got that "wow" factor when picking one up. Maybe I am missing something.
HTC- I have owned 8 HTC devices, so I do have some anecdotal experience. Never had a problem with any of their hardware, but their software implementations leave something to be desired (objective). Problems at launch, usually remain problems till EOL. So, if I ever do buy another HTC, it will be at least 2-3 months after launch so I can read about issues, which I don't expect will ever be corrected (subjective-opinion). That conflicts with my cutting edge mentality which is a problem for me.
Nokia- Although I have been using cell phones for nearly 20 years, the L900 is my first Nokia. I appreciate that they decided to go all in with WP, admittedly, primarily to save their butts. As my small way of helping the platform grow (sorry, but a strong Nokia makes for a stronger Windows Phone platform-that can't be disputed), and wanting to try something different, I drank the Nokia Blue Kool-Aid. Sure, this device has had problems (I never experienced data or purple screen issues personally), but I have never seen a company more responsive to their customers in the tech world (objective). Absolutely the best PDA, PocketPC, SmartPhone I have ever owned (objective).
Does that mean I will "only" buy Nokia moving forward. No. But it does mean they will get the benefit of the doubt on my next purchase. I always try to be somewhat objective with purchasing decisions, but it's human nature to have favorites and (subjective) preferences. That doesn't make me a bad person, does it.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
- 08-31-2012, 10:35 AM #21
they are allt he same phones.
MS invested more $$ in Nokia Because Nokia Had patents that would help MS protect it self.
now Nokia took that MS cash and made deals with EA and AT&T and then every one thinks NOKIA is the game saver.... Nokia did this to save their own behinds after losing so much shares and mobile power.
Sure Nokia phones are NICE but I dont think they are the best or worst then any other model.
I`m a Samsung guy my self but if the next WP from Nokia is sexy who knows I might jump ship but not cause of exclusive apps and AT&T reps wearing NOKIA WP T-shirts.
- 08-31-2012, 10:43 AM #22
Effort by percentages (that I just made up :D)
Nokia = 100%
HTC = 70%
Samsung = 40%
LG = Can't find a parking spot
When all is said, Nokia still CHOOSE to go with Windows Phone exclusively. Nobody forced them to. Nobody said they couldn't make Android and WPs. They banked their entire financial stability on Microsoft and (despite being a year late) they've already eclipsed other OEMs in both market and mind share. Their ecosystem has blown past other manufacturers, they're bringing new innovation (PureView), and they've added far more value to Windows Phone OS than the other OEMs combined.
That's fine if your OEM of choice is HTC or Samsung, but saying they're equal to Nokia is just plain wrong.
- 08-31-2012, 10:56 AM #23
Me: Hello my name is Snowmutt, and I am a Windows fan Boy
Group (in unison): HELLO, SNOWMUTT.
Me: Well, that was a little loud. Look, it was about early 2011 when I realized I had this problem. I was depressed because my old habit, WebOS, looked bleak, so I was looking for a new thrill. I thought, what what about this Android thing? What if I have to settle for an iPhone? But, low and behold, an LG Quantum sat in a box. I just got some Dealer to turn it on, they gave me a sample, and I got hooked.
Me: That was actually a little creepy, all of you staring at me and giggling.
But, anyways, I started sneaking around, getting a little WP fix here, a WP fix there... While no one as looking, I would check anywhere I could for stories about it. Even at work, I would sneak on the computer to get a little taste. But then... it happened...
Group: WHAT HAPPENED??
Me: Why are you all staring at me? With everyone sitting in a circle it is really, really disturbing.
Anyways, some dealer offered me some stuff for a penny - A PENNY- and I got me and the wife (I forced her along on my addition... I feel horrible about that..) some WP goodies. Mine was a Samsung, a type of drug imported and cut from Korea. My only problem was it seem like they just gave me a taste of second hand stuff, nothing made for an addict like me. It was great, don't get me wrong, I looked for reasons to use some, turning it off and on again just to see the "Windows Phone" logo come up...
Group: *hoots and hollers*
Me: Okay, now I feel violated. Don't do that again.
But, my Wife got some bad stuff from this dealer in China. They packaged it up as special stuff for WP, I found out later they lied, and it turns out it was a bad trip. Lots of poor noise in her ear, made her irritated and edgy all the time. She kept having freezes and problems and it was just BAD STUFF, and I had to keep getting her another, and another, and another....
Me: No, you stupid Jackrabbits!! That is bad!!
Me (whispering): Anyways, ... there are these new pushers... really taking over this trade, pushing in on this territory... their name is Nokia. I hear they have REALLY REALLY good stuff, unique and new. A designer drug JUST FOR ME... and they actually stand behind addicts, just to keep them strung out... I don't want to kick my habit, I want to be enabled!! SOMEONE ENABLE ME!!! GET ME STRUNG OUT!!! FEED MY HABIT!!
COME ON NOKIA!!! MAKE ME A USER!! Force everyone else that sells this candy we call WP to be pushing the good stuff!! We all win!!
- 08-31-2012, 11:03 AM #25
I dont think a camera makes a phone better then the other ... Samy has better screens but doesn't make them better and HTC has better *sound* but doesn't make it better.
they all have their OWN unique strong points that makes them good or bad depending on what YOU need. ( camera, sound , picture , body , feel , weight , speeds , Memory etc...)
Nokia does have more access to the CORE coding of the OS witch would allow them to make allot more for WP but they wont cause it would frag up WP ( android style)
on paper not one is better then the other.
all in all its VERY VERY hard to say one phone is better then the other.
I do STRONGLY believe that it comes down to user preference.
@eric just saw your post pretty much same thing as me haha