Horrible Verizon store experience today- staff told me WP8 may not even release

[db4williams]

Of course carriers like to push Android since they can screw up that OS with skins and apps in any way they like. The iPhone, just like WP, is restricted in terms of customization but basically sells itself, so there's no way around it. So if customers won't demand WP8 devices, Microsoft will be in an uncomfortable position with carriers.

As an european I'm just baffled with the US customers dependance on carriers. Subsidized phones with contracts? Sure, we have that too and most people get their phones that way but there's always the option to buy an unlocked phone and stay with your carrier - ****, your contract would even be cheaper without the carrier sponsored phone. I have never changed my carrier in almost 15 years - I do however change phones a lot, likely every year. That means I had to buy an unlocked phone once - after that it's all subsidized, either by selling via eBay or extending the contract.

The situation over there in the United States just feels insane from customer perspective.

Yep, we are definitely handcuffed! It really sucks unless you have large amounts of cash laying around to buy your phone off contract or to pay early termination fees. And even then you are pretty much restricted to which carrier you bought the phone from.

 

[thed]

Ok, sorry, that clears things up - I was under the impression that you are limited to the selection of phones your provider is offering.

That is often the case in the US. Verizon and Sprint use CDMA2000, which needs a different radio that is not generally included in phones (other than the iPhone). There would have to be a different model of phone made for these carriers.

Also, T-Mobile USA uses different 3G/4G bands that are not supported by many phones that work on AT&T, so there sometimes has to be a separate model for T-Mobile as well.

Those 4 carriers make up most of the US market, so you can see why people talk about this. It's more of a question of radio compatibility than contracts.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Verizon will be spiffing WP8 devices for the holidays with additional spiffs from Nokia, HTC, and MS. That means the staffers will be pushing them because they will make more money by moving them.

And yes, they will be making WP8 display areas in their stores and are planning on eliminating nearly half of their Android options gradually.

Verizon thought they'd like Android, but the added support costs are higher and MS gives them a way to push VZW apps through the WP Store with MS helping with app creation. VZW may also get a small cut of MS' WP Store revenues that come from VZW phones.

Microsoft is proving to be more of a partner than just a provider and apparently both Verizon and AT&T like that. I think the OEMs are finding that out too.

 

[AngryNil]

If only it was Sprint, you could have given the guy a mild concussion with a little knock of the Arrive.

 

[kevm14]

ATT or Verizon will sell you a full priced phone without a problem. They would rather sell you a contract, but that is not the only way to get a phone. You can buy an unlocked phone off ebay and take it into ATT/Verizon and get it activated on your plan.

The problem is, only the phone price changes. The REAL cost is in the monthly service. But because average American's only think in terms of "how much will I be out of pocket right this second" that is what you get. Only T-mobile offers cheaper BYOD plans (to my knowledge).

I have over a year left on my "contract" with AT&T yet there's nothing stopping me from buying any GSM device and using it on their network. I don't HAVE to use the Titan.

 

[Odog4ever]

That was supposed to be the plan with the Lumia 900 but a lot of reports said they got the same old crap. I dont think it will be any different this time.

I thought this tread was about Verizon because Verizon never got the Lumia 900...

Anyway I went to an ATT store one day, post Lumia release, because I was having some serious reception issues at my house (turns out I live a bad pocket, and the reception gets better near the main roads, etc.) Anyway, I overheard a rep selling a WP to a woman who said she was fed up with Android.

My jaw was literally on the floor. I thought one of them or both of them had to be a plant because the lady was impressed with WP and the rep was giving it props even though it looked like his personal phone was an iPhone. He wasn't even pushing the Lumia that hard as the store had working display units for other WP models (like I said I though I was on Punk'd for a second). I wish I had video taped it but that would have been creepy no?

Just takes some good training, an non-douchbag rep, and some incentive I guess.

 

[poiman]

I haven't changed providers in 10 years either. I get a new phone every 2 years or so when my 'contract' is up. I'm not sure how different it is in Europe, but I couldn't fathom buying a phone every year.

I'm not sure what all the hate against 'contracts' are. I like watching DirecTV, I like what they offer, I'm not going to change - lock me in if you must. Same goes for my cell phone, I'm happy with AT&T, they've served me well, being 'tied' to them for 2 years with a good phone doesn't bother me...

Maybe I'm weird, who knows...

Nothing wrong with that. What confuses me more is that in many cases if a new phone that you like doesn't come to your carrier you can't have it because it won't work. Here you can buy any phone and use it on any carrier. More choice.

 

[brmiller1976]

To be fair, I doubt that many people ask for WPs in Verizon, and carriers will (by their nature) sell whatever is easiest to sell to get you into a contract.

Right now, there are no viable WP handsets in the market. Essentially, WP7 has been effectively discontinued as of the "no updates" announcement in June, and new hardware has yet to ship. Meanwhile, Samsung and Apple keep shipping, and Verizon doesn't want to "send you away and wait," because you might go to another carrier. They want you to sign TODAY, with hardware they have TODAY, and a device you'll keep and not return within 14 days.

 

[Frenzytom]

Once the higher-ups in VZW make sure WP8 is the viable third ecosystem, the soldiers will all fall in place. Marketing, sales and training will have to be as strong as the "Droid" campaign or it will never take off.

 

[jimski]

Hey OP, you were taking to a Salesman (or is it Salesperson). And anyone knows that a good Salesman will sell you his Gradma's hearing aid if he could make a buck. Once the WP sales incentives, contests, etc. get pushed down by Corporate, this guy and all his co-workers will change their tune.

People underestimate the power of retail sales people. I bet in the US, they are responsible for 50-75% of all iPhone and Android purchasing decisions. The rest of the purchases are by well informed consumers, or those influenced by friends and family. Things should get interesting.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro

 

[Achilles Heal]

So, I've got two stories. Here's the first of me just asking a salesman questions...

It's a copy from a posting I made about six months back, but I'm pasting it hear because it's still relevant...

Back about five months ago I went into a local Best Buy in Canada and saw a Nokia Lumia 800 sitting at the Telus display. No info, no price, nothing to highlight the phone at all. It sits off and silent compared to all the other phones around it.

I've already had a Telus 800 for the last few weeks and am loving it. But I'm curious about how a salesperson will present it at a generic box store. Here's how the conversation goes (literally)...

A sales guy wanders over. "Can I help you?"
"Sure! I was wondering how much this phone was."
"$529 to purchase outright. If you go with a 3 year contract it's $25 or something".
"What do you think of it?"
"I don't like it."
"Why?"
"It's from Microsoft and it's a Windows Phone. See - it even has the Windows icon on the bottom. I don't like how it organizes things and makes you do things. I recommend the same phone I have". Whips out an Android. "Look where I have my apps on this screen, and other things on other screens. I'd go with this."
"Have you used it much?"
"No. But it has the same things as other phones - music and stuff."
"But I thought I'd heard some pretty good things about this phone..."
"Yeah, there was some hype. Let me know if I can help you any more". And he wanders away to another customer.

YEESH!!!!

Unless Microsoft/Nokia starts leaning on these box stores, there will never be headway with their product with people following the salespeople's lead. Unless this is a strategy to (hopefully) overcome through attrition...

 

[Achilles Heal]

Replacing an WP LG Optimus 7 with Anything on the Shelves...

Back in November, 2011, my son managed to convince a Telus store (Canada) salesperson that he really wanted to get a Windows Phone (that's another story in this same vein as this thread), and selected an LG Optimus 7. Thoroughly happy with an intuitive and solid phone.

In August, 2012 he smashed the glass and brought it into Telus for repairs. He went through two iterations of getting it repaired because it came back with the same or new problems. Given the bad repair situations, a Telus service rep on the phone granted us an unrestricted upgrade to replace the Optimus 7 through a Telus store. So I phone down to the local store. Conversation goes like this:

Me: "Hi. I have an Optimus 7 that I've been granted the opportunity to upgrade to another, current phone in the store by Telus and I wanted to know what you had in stock."

Sales Rep: "We have a great selection of Android phones that you can upgrade to."

Me: "Yeah, but the Optimus 7 is a Windows Phone and we wanted to stay with that system."

Sales Rep: "Okay, but we also have a great deal on iPhones right now as well because iPhone 5 just came out and you can choose an older model for a great price or be put on the wait list for iPhone 5"

Me: "He really is only interested in the Windows Phone because he prefers it over iPhone and doesn't want to try Android because his past experience with Android was that it was hard to use and unstable."

Sales Rep: "Really? I don't know of many people that like Windows Phone at all. Are you sure you don't want to switch?"

Me: "Yes"

Well, it ended up that they had Lumia 800s of the colour he wanted so we came down to the store. Same sales rep was there. Once he knew it was me on the phone, he admitted that he'd never used a Windows Phone before and all he likes is the iPhone. So that's all he sells to people. I think this sales rep would likely sell the iPhone even if there was an incentive offered for the Windows Phone because he was so keen on it for himself. In fact I had to take the Lumia 800 from him to get the SIM card in because he wasn't able to figure out how to pull the drawer out, and then I had to set up the phone because he didn't know how either.

This is the kind of barrier that alternative phone adoption is going to have to break down.

On a positive note, I came back in the next day to resolve an issue and the manager happened to be there. I mentioned my story with the provision that I wasn't trying to get someone in trouble, but the sales reps should likely not be so pushy when a customer knows what they want. He apologized and said he has used WP and appreciates its value. He was going to speak to the sales rep to ensure that personal bias isn't used to direct a customer away from might be a better, alternative choice. This may be just good PR on his part, but at least he sounded sincere.

 

[Nataku4ca]

It's a copy from a posting I made about six months back, but I'm pasting it hear because it's still relevant...

i still think u should have pulled out ur 800 and told him u were from corporate, and then ask for his manager lol (well... i guess lying isn't good...)

 

[scdkad]

Of course carriers like to push Android since they can screw up that OS with skins and apps in any way they like. The iPhone, just like WP, is restricted in terms of customization but basically sells itself, so there's no way around it. So if customers won't demand WP8 devices, Microsoft will be in an uncomfortable position with carriers.

As an european I'm just baffled with the US customers dependance on carriers. Subsidized phones with contracts? Sure, we have that too and most people get their phones that way but there's always the option to buy an unlocked phone and stay with your carrier - ****, your contract would even be cheaper without the carrier sponsored phone. I have never changed my carrier in almost 15 years - I do however change phones a lot, likely every year. That means I had to buy an unlocked phone once - after that it's all subsidized, either by selling via eBay or extending the contract.

The situation over there in the United States just feels insane from customer perspective.

Here in the US most people don't want to pay $400-$600 for a phone. I though most of you Europeans knew this.

I don't mind being on contract-I get an upgrade every 18 months with ATT.

As far as being out of contract and buying whatever device you want you still have to pay a monthly bill don't you? What are you really saving? Your bill is not cheaper here because you bought your own phone.The only thing about that is you can cancel you service and switch without paying ETF anytime.

 

[chevans920]

Hey folks - "long-time" reader, first time poster. I must say I really enjoy all the info and opinions offered on wpcentral!

So, my family and I are pretty much stuck with AT&T - my folks and in-laws have lake houses about an hour and a half from where we live and they are the only carrier with decent reception there...

So, back to the point, on Sept. 13th, I go into our local store with my dad to upgrade him to the iPhone 4 (we have been an iPhone family since the 3G days and he is "comfortable with the platform"). He's not interested in getting the latest tech - just wants to be able to see pics of his granddaughter more clearly. After getting him squared away with his upgrade, the saleswoman looks to me and says "I notice two of your other lines are eligible for an upgrade, do you want to get some 4s'? I politely decline, as the iPhone 5 would be out the next day. I mention to her that I'd be in the next day to pre-order my wife an iPhone 5 and that I was waiting on the 920.

She looked at me for a moment and asked "have you ever used a Windows Phone?"
Me - "I've played with the 900 on the shelf a few times."
Her - "You should get the Android GS II/III (she had one - I'm not too familiar with them, so I can't say for certain what she had)
Me - "I'm not a fan of Android, it's a bit to confusing/buggy for me, personally (I had and HTC something or other a year ago and was not impressed). The whole interface just doesn't make sense to me."
Her - "Well if you have problems with the Android, WP is going to be very difficult for you to transition to."
Me - "I don't think so, I just spent 5 minutes with that 900 and it is just as/if not more user friendly as my iPhone 4. After that, implanning on getting a WP8 as soon as I can. I'm bored of the iPhone, honestly."
Her - "Oh, ok"

While the ending of our conversation may sound abrupt, she was extremely nice and helpful with what we were trying to accomplish. I cant complain about the experience in store. It is just her knowledge of something new seemed to be limited.

To make a long story even longer, I really hope the supposed training coming out curbs some of the hesitation we are seeing around WP8!

And yes, my user name is in fact in anticipation of me getting a 920

Looking forward to more great readings!

Chris

Does it really matter if Verizon offers WP8 phones if they still employee rude ****** staff? I went into a Verizon corporate store today (in Akron, OH) to ask if they had official street dates for the WP8 phones and the sales guy laughed and said no one wants those phones and he thinks they will never get released. He was extremely rude and told me Win phones have no apps and no one comes in asking for them and said I should get a droid. I pulled out my Verizon Trophy and said you better watch who you are talking to and walked out.

If ATT didn't have such bad receptioon by my house it would be enough for me to switch.

 

[danielm298]

ATT reps didnt have a clue either....

Was at the Stonecrest Mall in Lithonia Ga the other day with my wife, she was looking at some make up that so happened to be next to the ATT kiosk, the ATT rep asked me " so how do you like your Lumia 900" she ask's-i was flipping some pages while the wife was shopping-i told her i love it..then i proceeded to show her some pics and things, The ATT rep was like--wow i didnt know the phone did that and this, wow!!! you need to come show my manager what you just showed me, he doesn't have a clue about Windows OS..i iwas like--really..all you guys know are IOS and Andriod...she said -cus thats what they teach us..i told her- all that i have learned was from WPCentral..WM is the best...she asked me-can you come back and teach me some things--i laughed...her co-worker said-wow that phone is fast....there were more WOW comments from the ATT reps..when i left i really come to realize that ATT needs more training on WM7/8 for it to take off, its a great OS system, if it fails it will be Microsoft fault..just like WEBos (palme pre days) that failed..great OS system but no backing

 

[Nataku4ca]

Hey folks - "long-time" reader, first time poster. I must say I really enjoy all the info and opinions offered on wpcentral!

Awsome! great to see fresh blood on board , if/when you get your 920 and you have any questions we will be here

 

[chevans920]

Awsome! great to see fresh blood on board , if/when you get your 920 and you have any questions we will be here

Thanks! I definitely will be looking to you guys during my transition from ios to WP8!

 

[freestaterocker]

Here in the US most people don't want to pay $400-$600 for a phone. I though most of you Europeans knew this.

I don't mind being on contract-I get an upgrade every 18 months with ATT.

As far as being out of contract and buying whatever device you want you still have to pay a monthly bill don't you? What are you really saving? Your bill is not cheaper here because you bought your own phone.The only thing about that is you can cancel you service and switch without paying ETF anytime.

In Europe your plan can be significantly cheaper with an unsubsidized device. It's not like here.

 

[chevans920]

I think most carriers wouldn't know what to do if we went in to buy a full priced unlocked phone! :straight: