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  1. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #1  
    iOS and Android aren't serious operating systems for users, since they lack key apps including:

    Internet Explorer (the most popular web browser)
    Microsoft Word Mobile
    Microsoft Excel Mobile
    Microsoft PowerPoint Mobile
    Integrated Skydrive
    Microsoft Outlook Mobile
    Microsoft XBox Music
    Microsoft XBox Movies

    It's difficult to see how those two operating systems can succeed as serious computing platforms when they're missing these basic apps.

    Now, I know, lacking official apps like these results in "wannabe" apps of poor quality, like Safari or Chrome or OpenOffice, but let's face it... users want the real thing. Without these apps, it's hard to take iOS or Android seriously.

    Discuss. :D
  2. thegoodnotes's Avatar
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    #2  
    While you make an interesting point, iOS and Android have purposely built in the ability to view Office format documents because they know so many people use those formats. It's also why the iWork suite supports those formats. :)

    For Internet Explorer, until webpages (the "experience" when it comes to using a browser) start breaking for other browsers, it doesn't really matter how many people use IE. In fact, you could say the MASSIVE drop in IE usage over the past few years is because web pages would rather support other browsers than IE. Generally though, your browser choice doesn't affect your ACCESS to the experience (webpages).

    Xbox Music / Video marketplaces do a lot less volume than iTunes / Google Play. If anything, WP8 should be supporting iTunes accounts and purchases! :)
  3. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodnotes View Post
    While you make an interesting point, iOS and Android have purposely built in the ability to view Office format documents because they know so many people use those formats. It's also why the iWork suite supports those formats. :)
    Sure, but again, viewing isn't editing (and doesn't always work). And iWork is a great example of one of those poor-quality semi-compatible "substitute" apps that isn't "the real thing" (as we constantly hear about the Dropbox and Pinterest clients for WP8, for instance).

    For Internet Explorer, until webpages (the "experience" when it comes to using a browser) start breaking for other browsers, it doesn't really matter how many people use IE.
    No, it is very important. The most popular apps determine what platform someone should run, according to the Google and Apple folks. Anybody using an app that isn't the most important and popular risks being orphaned.

    And in browsers, there's precedence for this. If you ran Safari on Windows, you were orphaned, whereas Internet Explorer is the safe choice.

    Based on the criteria of "most popular and what most people use," any browser other than Internet Explorer is a dangerous, unsafe choice that could be discontinued at any moment. ;)

    Xbox Music / Video marketplaces do a lot less volume than iTunes / Google Play. If anything, WP8 should be supporting iTunes accounts and purchases! :)
    Incorrect. XBox Music and Video are the only comprehensive, cross-device media services that work consistently on the TV, PC, tablet and phone. Neither iTunes nor Google Play can offer those features. And XBox Music/Video are exclusive to Windows Phone.

    iTunes and Play are great examples of "crutch" apps, because Android and iOS cannot have "the real thing" -- XBox Music. :D
  4. jaqueh's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    iOS and Android aren't serious operating systems for users, since they lack key apps including:

    Internet Explorer (the most popular web browser)
    Microsoft Word Mobile
    Microsoft Excel Mobile
    Microsoft PowerPoint Mobile
    Integrated Skydrive
    Microsoft Outlook Mobile
    Microsoft XBox Music
    Microsoft XBox Movies

    It's difficult to see how those two operating systems can succeed as serious computing platforms when they're missing these basic apps.

    Now, I know, lacking official apps like these results in "wannabe" apps of poor quality, like Safari or Chrome or OpenOffice, but let's face it... users want the real thing. Without these apps, it's hard to take iOS or Android seriously.

    Discuss. :D
    I cannot agree with any of this, but I applaud the effort. Kind of reality distortion field though don't you think?
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  5. thegoodnotes's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Sure, but again, viewing isn't editing (and doesn't always work). And iWork is a great example of one of those poor-quality semi-compatible "substitute" apps that isn't "the real thing" (as we constantly hear about the Dropbox and Pinterest clients for WP8, for instance).
    I would agree with you :) Off-brand apps are a poor substitute.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    No, it is very important. The most popular apps determine what platform someone should run, according to the Google and Apple folks. Anybody using an app that isn't the most important and popular risks being orphaned.

    And in browsers, there's precedence for this. If you ran Safari on Windows, you were orphaned, whereas Internet Explorer is the safe choice.

    Based on the criteria of "most popular and what most people use," any browser other than Internet Explorer is a dangerous, unsafe choice that could be discontinued at any moment. ;)
    On mobile devices, IE is the lowest used browser though :) So, it is probably not a safe choice to support IE, because it isn't particularly popular. And actually, overall, IE is no longer the most popular browser (Browser Statistics & Usage share of web browsers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). That's why on the web, many web sites actually work and look better in Chrome / FF browsers. If anything, WP8 needs a Chrome / FF app.

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Incorrect. XBox Music and Video are the only comprehensive, cross-device media services that work consistently on the TV, PC, tablet and phone. Neither iTunes nor Google Play can offer those features. And XBox Music/Video are exclusive to Windows Phone.

    iTunes and Play are great examples of "crutch" apps, because Android and iOS cannot have "the real thing" -- XBox Music. :D
    You can't call Xbox Music / Video comprehensive and cross-device when 1) the size of their content library is less than iTunes and 2) WP8 has a pretty poor music experience compared to other Xbox-enabled devices (ex. playlist functionality).

    Also, with iCloud, you can sync your purchased media content from iTunes across all devices, so not sure what you meant there.
  6. Bspain's Avatar
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    #6  
    No different to people saying WP7/8 does not have good enough apps. its all what you are used to and if you have certain apps on one platform that you use all the time but move to another platform that doesnt have these apps then you are going to find that platform lacking.

    I find IE and outlook and skydrive work really well but I barely use word/excel/powerpoint. Media players are better than android but probably not better iPhones imho.
  7. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodnotes View Post
    On mobile devices, IE is the lowest used browser though
    Not so. When you add up all mobile devices -- smartphones, tablets, netbooks, laptops, ultrabooks and convertibles, IE 10 is the largest browser in total share.

    You can't call Xbox Music / Video comprehensive and cross-device when 1) the size of their content library is less than iTunes and 2) WP8 has a pretty poor music experience compared to other Xbox-enabled devices (ex. playlist functionality).
    WP8 supports full playlist functionality, its library is one of the largest available, it is cross-device, and unlike iTunes, it supports full streaming (and is thus cost-effective rather than cost-prohibitive).

    with iCloud, you can sync your purchased media content from iTunes across all devices, so not sure what you meant there.
    "Syncing" is an obsolete, non-mobile solution. So are media "purchases."

    Streaming is the future. Streaming is the present. The subscription model is the best approach, and iTunes doesn't support any of it. It's a B&W 8mm camera in a Netflix world.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Not so. When you add up all mobile devices -- smartphones, tablets, netbooks, laptops, ultrabooks and convertibles, IE 10 is the largest browser in total share.
    IE10 only runs on Windows 7/8 desktop, Windows RT and Windows Phone 8. Most consumers and businesses still running Windows 7 are also still running IE9. XP users are limited to IE8 or older.

    Prior to installing Windows 8 Pro, I did not use IE in over 6 months. I've only used it lately to play with IE10 and try it out. I still prefer Firefox.

    Re: mobile browsers, why is there no Opera Mini/Opera Mobile for Windows Phone? Android, iOS, BlackBerry and even Windows Mobile can get Opera.



    I would venture to guess that IE is popular just because enterprises only allow use of IE, and non tech-savvy consumers just use IE because it's preinstalled in Windows if they live in the US and it's what they use at work.
  9. thegoodnotes's Avatar
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    #9  
    Would be interested in seeing where you got your mobile browser usage stats from. Everything I've seen is the complete opposite (and FYI, laptops aren't included in mobile usage generally - they're included in desktop stats).

    How do I create a playlist on WP8 and then add more songs to it? I don't see that functionality. While Xbox Music does have a large library, iTunes still is a few million ahead (I know this for a fact for reasons I won't go into).

    Yes, streaming is the future as is subscription. Totally agree. But, iOS allows for STREAMING from the cloud. Just FYI.

    Still, I hope customers are as optimistic as you are :) Would love to see WP8's market share increase by a significant amount.
  10. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #10  
    Ah, so now the Android/Apple bridgade are trying to redefine "mobile device" to remain relevant and cover up their serious deficit of quality and indisputably important apps! :D
  11. thegoodnotes's Avatar
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    #11  
    Interesting way to avoid the question, but whatever floats your boat. And if you look at my profile, I own an 8x - not an iPhone (had a 4 until I switched), not an Android. I'm more in MSFT's camp than you'll ever know...
  12. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #12  
    Actually, I am being totally ironic by lampooning BS arguments about apps. If you read the responses to my initial argument, they're actually slipperier than the responses that WP users have for "there's no Instagram client!" :)
  13. iamtim's Avatar
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    #13  
    (@brmiller1976... dude, I totally get where you're going with this thread, but daaaaaaamn you're one **** of a troll. :D )
  14. Guitarpik's Avatar
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    #14  
    Seriously? I love my 920 but IE10 SUCKS. Worst browser I've ever used on a smartphone.
  15. MaulerX's Avatar
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    #15  
    I approve of this thread. I recognized the sarcasm from the get go.

    The thing is, you hear fans of both iOS and Android across forums constantly attempt to dismiss WP because it lacks "XYZ". Yet, WP has some very important features and synergy across a greater spectrum (Can't get bigger than PC and Xbox) of popular devices that those other competing platforms don't have.

    When people talk about ecosystems how quickly they forget that Microsoft has the biggest ecosystems of all. Personally (after being heavily invested in PC & Xbox) WP is the final piece of an other wise finely crafted puzzle.
    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
  16. philxor's Avatar
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    #16  
    I was always told not to feed the trolls but here goes.

    As far as mobile browser share Safari has about 60% market share with IE having less than 1%.

    I will be honest SmartOffice on iOS has way more features and functionality than the MS apps on WP8 which are as basic as it gets. The PowerPoint portion of it is downright laughable compared to SmartOffice. I can also save documents as PDF, and even print them.

    Skydrive is nice but still has less features than Dropbox.

    You can't sync and play a video purchased via Xbox in WP8 due to DRM issues and MS has no idea when they might add it even though it was advertised as a main feature.

    I am a new WP user and I love portions of the OS but I don't see Google or Apple being very concerned.
    Last edited by philxor; 11-20-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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  17. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #17  
    I'm a big fan of Windows Phone, but I can't go along with this line of bull, sorry.

    The truth is IE on the phone is not compliant with the standards most mobile websites are built to and in general you get better results with Safari or Chrome or the browsers on just about any other phone.

    The Office apps are nice, but still not as full featured as many of us would like, I don't think they are all that much more capable than the office-like suites on the other platforms.

    xBox music and movies I can't really comment on because I haven't used them, but I've heard mostly complaints about it here and very little praise.

    Overall, I'm with Windows Phone because I love the UI. That's it. I love it so much that I am willing to forgive the shortcomings of the OS and to "keep the faith" that Microsoft will keep working diligently to fill in the gaps. I suspect that many, if not most of us feel about the same way. We have a special affection for this OS that keeps us coming back. The charming little tiles and ebb and flow of moving through the OS is so pleasing that most of us are willing to wait patiently for the things we don't like to be resolved, but we aren't going to deny they exist.

    I'm not blindly loyal to Windows Phone though. I find Android repellent for a number of reasons though and iOS is just unimaginative and dull. So I'm in for the long haul I think and I look forward to (more) great things for Windows Phone as I think we all do.
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  18. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I would venture to guess that IE is popular just because enterprises only allow use of IE, and non tech-savvy consumers just use IE because it's preinstalled in Windows if they live in the US and it's what they use at work.
    I'd kill to have Opera on Windows Phone. A non-IE based browser is in my top 5 wishes for this platform. I don't know if it's just not being developed, or if Microsoft is standing in the way, but I want to see it happen. Let me have a non-IE browser and let me remap that damn search key to Google if you can't make Bing not suck so much.

    No, I'm not going to pitch a fit and threaten to get an iPhone over it... but damn it Microsoft PLEASE...
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    I'm a big fan of Windows Phone, but I can't go along with this line of bull, sorry.

    The truth is IE on the phone is not compliant with the standards most mobile websites are built to and in general you get better results with Safari or Chrome or the browsers on just about any other phone.

    The Office apps are nice, but still not as full featured as many of us would like, I don't think they are all that much more capable than the office-like suites on the other platforms.

    xBox music and movies I can't really comment on because I haven't used them, but I've heard mostly complaints about it here and very little praise.

    Overall, I'm with Windows Phone because I love the UI. That's it. I love it so much that I am willing to forgive the shortcomings of the OS and to "keep the faith" that Microsoft will keep working diligently to fill in the gaps. I suspect that many, if not most of us feel about the same way. We have a special affection for this OS that keeps us coming back. The charming little tiles and ebb and flow of moving through the OS is so pleasing that most of us are willing to wait patiently for the things we don't like to be resolved, but we aren't going to deny they exist.

    I'm not blindly loyal to Windows Phone though. I find Android repellent for a number of reasons though and iOS is just unimaginative and dull. So I'm in for the long haul I think and I look forward to (more) great things for Windows Phone as I think we all do.
    Exactly how I feel. Yeah I complain, but I will go down with the ship if need be.
  20. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #20  
    Those of you complaining that this thread is trolling, or vehemently disagreeing with my premises about how the apps that I care about are the only ones that matter...

    WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF THE WP USER. :P

    Every time I hear that my need for a reliable Exchange-compatible phone with REAL integration with Exchange is less interesting than "essential apps" like "Paris Hilton News," "iFart" and "Instagram," I want to smack them. And the condescending tone with which it's delivered is exactly the same as the tone I used in my first few posts here, including the complete dismissal of any criticism of the WP apps or features (which mirrors all discounting of criticism of Android or iOS shortcomings).
  21. AngryNil's Avatar
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    #21  
    Nice premise, but brings up what I consider to be a rather large problem - Microsoft isn't creating killer experiences with the key apps they have.

    The Office Mobile suite is a joke for any creating or editing. It seems like it is there only to read existing documents and make little notes to change them later. Word and PowerPoint in particular are terribly barebones. I'd like to see some basic formatting controls comparable to OWA.

    And SkyDrive... why can't we have the full-blown client integrated? Why does it have to be a separate, sandboxed app?
  22. blehblehbleh's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryNil View Post
    And SkyDrive... why can't we have the full-blown client integrated? Why does it have to be a separate, sandboxed app?
    You mean integrated as one whole unit and not in smaller pieces like you find with the Office Hub, Photos Hub, Contacts, etc?

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