Early adoption

Status
Not open for further replies.

cp2_4eva

New member
Mar 19, 2012
755
0
0
Visit site
I see it like this. MS can take as much time as they want maturing. It's their prerogative. But if they want to succeed they will have to do better than what they are doing now as far as features and progression of their system. Us folks here on these forums know what the phones are capable of, but when you ask the average joe to buy your phone and it can't do X, Y, and Z, but there are other phones that can do that, then what is their argument then. As a person that is in the know like most of you on this forum, I know what to expect from Microsoft more or less. Those other guys and gals don't care about a new kernel. They care about what is this phone going to do for me now in comparison to what else is out there. right now, the competition has us beat in many categories EXCEPT cameras and Microsoft office integration. In other areas, not so much and I believe could be debate worthy. The "ME" thing is slightly broken, but is still a good change from what the competition has to offer.
 

iamtim

New member
Nov 12, 2012
1,577
0
0
Visit site
when you ask the average joe to buy your phone and it can't do X, Y, and Z, but there are other phones that can do that

But you're ALWAYS going to have that. Yes, Windows Phone 8 has a bug or two, but I'll say that at least 66% of the "bugs", "major issues", or "platform killers" I read about here are either situational or preferential with a serious case of over-reaction.

I can say that there is NOTHING I did on my Samsung Captivate and iPhone 4 that I can't do on my Lumia 820. NOTHING. I'm not the only one, either.

EDIT: there is one thing I can't do: connect to my VPN at work. Hopefully that will be part of the rumored Apollo+ update we're hearing about.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Visit site
Also, I think I am quite impressed by the OS itself, but the first party apps like music is where the phone sucks.

There are so many things cannot be blamed on *new*. If I recall correctly, iPhone came with a great music player (maybe better than music app we have on WP today) and iTunes video never got so messed up.

That's what YOU think. I really like the interfaces of Xbox Music and Nokia Music. I think that iTunes is incredibly unappealing and ugly, while Zune was a much better aesthetic brand, in terms of software AND hardware (hated the iPod scroll wheel, and I prefer sharp corners to rounded ones). The only thing I don't like about the music applications on Windows Phone is that they behave somewhat independently. I'd rather they baked Nokia Music's functions into Xbox Music, so I don't have to use each program for separate functions.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Visit site
Us folks here on these forums know what the phones are capable of, but when you ask the average joe to buy your phone and it can't do X, Y, and Z, but there are other phones that can do that, then what is their argument then. As a person that is in the know like most of you on this forum, I know what to expect from Microsoft more or less. Those other guys and gals don't care about a new kernel. They care about what is this phone going to do for me now in comparison to what else is out there. right now, the competition has us beat in many categories EXCEPT cameras and Microsoft office integration.

That is specifically what early adopters and those who follow these things are for. When someone asked which phone I got recently, I explained all of the great things about Windows Phone. You say that there is only the camera and Microsoft Office, but that really isn't the case. I'll point out a few others:

--Pricing: At least on AT&T, the devices are cheaper. You can get the Lumia 920 for $100 (a flagship for half the price of a flagship), and the Lumia 820 for $50. You then have the $100 8X there, so those who don't NEED 16 GB can choose that, rather than being forced onto the $200 16GB model.
--Interface: This is an aesthetic preference, yes. However, when we're talking about this, if the person likes it and is willing to learn it, then it's not an issue. I like this UI more than the grids and pages of Android and iOS, and having the customizable lock screens and tile colors (which I seems to change every few days) is better than changing a wallpaper that's covered by your apps anyway.
--Xbox LIVE integration: Being able to use an account you already have (if you already have a Microsoft/Xbox LIVE account) is better than having to create another account you don't need otherwise (such as Apple's GameCenter; I also don't use Google but HAD to make a Google account for Android). Xbox LIVE allows for cross-platform integration (PC, Xbox, Windows Phone) to play games with friends, which is a great convenience to have for the numerous amounts of teens and young adults who are already playing on Xbox LIVE.
--Xbox Music/Nokia Music: Really, with the applications you get from Nokia, I think getting a Lumia is CLEARLY better than going HTC. One of those applications is Nokia Music, which allows for streaming. The streaming is free. The streaming is ad-free. The only constraint is that you only get 6 skips per hour. That is countered by the ability to download 4 online streaming playlists to your phone and use them offline, which prevents unnecessary data consumption.
--Games: This (like the interface) is a preferential matter. It also ties into the Xbox LIVE integration. However, in the nearly 2 years I spent on Android, I never found a game I like more than the Windows (8 and Phone)-exclusive Wordament. It's a great game, and playing it with my sister or her fianc? when we're together is great (partially because I'm better than them, haha).
--Storage: You know what you get with an iPhone: 16 GB for $200, 32 GB for $300 (and I think 64 GB for $400). With Android, you're probably getting 16 GB with an SD slot for $200. With the Nexus 4 (which seems to be the #2 to the Galaxy S III), you get 8 GB for $300 or 16 GB for $350, both off-contract and without micro-SD. With Windows Phone, you can get the $100 Lumia 920 with 32 GB of non-expandable storage (realistically enough for most users, though that can be said about 16 GB as well). You can also get the $50 Lumia 820 or $100 Lumia 822 (after $50 rebate) with 16 GB and microSD support. Basically, you get more storage per-dollar than with Android or iOS, which is great for media lovers (I personally have used up 20+ GB for videos, photos, and music on my Lumia 920).
--Support: This is really compared to Android, not iOS. With an Android device, you pretty much hope that you'll get 1 full year of support on a 2-year contract, which is sad. With my Windows Phone, I am EXPECTING updates for the full duration of my contract. Windows Phone 7 is supported more than 2 years after its release, and they are working on the second major update now. My HTC Droid Incredible got one update in the 2 years I had it, which is borderline unacceptable. I shouldn't have to learn to root a phone just to make it decent.
--Carrier apps: With Android, you have a lot of carrier apps that you have to root the device to remove. With Windows Phone, they can be deleted like any downloaded application, which is a great thing to have. I'm not sure what you get on that front with iOS, but when my stupid Android device was pre-loaded with Twitter, Facebook, Skype, Slacker radio, and other garbage, it sucked. It was both clutter in my app drawer, and the apps also had a tendency to open themselves at random, which meant going in to force close them every day, almost.

I can go on, but SO much of a phone choice is just what you prefer. At the end of the day, if you don't like Windows Phone's tiles, you're not going to get one of these devices. I feel like Android offers the most flexibility, but it comes at the cost of needing to have somewhat in-depth knowledge of phones to root them. Without that feature, you're limited to wallpapers and little else. iOS is extremely rigid in its customization (aesthetically speaking), and don't get me started on their crap with chargers. Windows Phone allows for a decent amount of freedom (live tiles, tile sizes, tile colors, tile arrangement, and lock screen choices), without requiring a week or two of learning the ins and outs of rooting a device to get that.

Really, though, it's all a pointless argument. You get what looks good, and that's it. After getting my Lumia 920, I'd rather keep this phone for 4 years than upgrade to a brand-new Android device (I'll never buy from Apple) in 2014.
 

fardream

New member
Jul 20, 2012
458
0
0
Visit site
That's what YOU think. I really like the interfaces of Xbox Music and Nokia Music. I think that iTunes is incredibly unappealing and ugly, while Zune was a much better aesthetic brand, in terms of software AND hardware (hated the iPod scroll wheel, and I prefer sharp corners to rounded ones). The only thing I don't like about the music applications on Windows Phone is that they behave somewhat independently. I'd rather they baked Nokia Music's functions into Xbox Music, so I don't have to use each program for separate functions.
MY opinion aside, iTunes syncs with iPhone from day one, video included. Whatever it looks, it works. And Zune is killed already, by the way.
 

iamtim

New member
Nov 12, 2012
1,577
0
0
Visit site
Try syncing Zune pass music downloaded by Zune?

Don't have that. My point is that when I had my iPhone and I wanted to sync music, I'd plug the iPhone in, fire up iTunes, and sync my music. Now with my 820 when I want to sync music I plug the phone in, fire up the Windows Phone app, and sync my music. That's straight up apples-to-apples.

Does "Zune pass music" download to your PC? Or is it cloud-based music? Is it DRMed?
 

fardream

New member
Jul 20, 2012
458
0
0
Visit site
Don't have that. My point is that when I had my iPhone and I wanted to sync music, I'd plug the iPhone in, fire up iTunes, and sync my music. Now with my 820 when I want to sync music I plug the phone in, fire up the Windows Phone app, and sync my music. That's straight up apples-to-apples.

Does "Zune pass music" download to your PC? Or is it cloud-based music? Is it DRMed?
yes, Zune music pass music are downloaded to your PC, and syncable to your phone. And it's quite easy to make playlist on Zune software...
 

iamtim

New member
Nov 12, 2012
1,577
0
0
Visit site
yes, Zune music pass music are downloaded to your PC, and syncable to your phone.

So... you have a collection of music downloaded to your computer. In what format is the music stored? Is it DRMed? What happens when you plug your phone in and use the Windows Phone app (on Windows 8) or Windows Explorer (on Windows 7) to sync the music to your phone?
 

rockstarzzz

New member
Apr 3, 2012
4,887
1
0
Visit site
I agree that I'm not the "average person." But MS is marketing WP as the phone for everyone, not just for techies or people who just like to try new things.

And I'm aware of the implications of a kernel rewrite, but it's not really a good explanation for me. Look at Windows 8. To my knowledge that was also a kernel rewrite, but they managed to bring new and compelling things to the OS at the same time.

Maybe I'm getting off topic here, but I guess I'm just disappointed by the rate of development of WP. I got my Trophy at launch, back in the NoDo days (Verizon didn't have any phones pre-Nodo). The OS was really raw back then but I think most users were in it because they saw great potential from WP. Then Mango came out and it was a huge step forward. There were still plenty of holes in the OS afterward, but Mango added so many things, it made it easy to be encouraged by MS's progress. It was exciting to be an early adopter when I could see the OS growing like that.

Then over the next year I waited with excitement for WP8. But then WP8 finally came along and aside from the start screen, didn't bring much to the table for those of us who already had a WP7. So many little issues that were there since day one are still there, and probably will be for at least another year when the next big update comes. It really dampened my excitement for the future of WP. It's just a disappointment and I think that's at least part of the reason why people are posting complaints.

Sorry this got a little long. I just felt that this was as good a place as any to post my feelings about being an early adopter.

Ditto.
 

MojoHand69

New member
Nov 11, 2012
75
0
0
Visit site
So... you have a collection of music downloaded to your computer. In what format is the music stored? Is it DRMed? What happens when you plug your phone in and use the Windows Phone app (on Windows 8) or Windows Explorer (on Windows 7) to sync the music to your phone?

Is it possible to make a playlist with music you have stored natively on your WP8 phone w/o syncing with WP App or WPM?
 

tk-093

New member
Aug 30, 2010
1,465
1
0
Visit site
I'm as big of a Microsoft ****** as they come, but I can still call it like I see it. It sounds like syncing of music is a pretty big fail from what I've read. (I admit I have not really tried it yet because I'm still flipping between the 822 and my GS3 because I can't get corp email yet on the 822, I'll probably try it tonight so I can stop speaking out of my butt. :) ). I have hundreds of songs I've downloaded using my monthly Zune Pass (not XBOX Music or whatever they call it.) Sounds like that won't sync over? (They are DRM'd) Is that true?

The Zune app is a beautiful piece of software, you could sync wirelessly with WP7 and with Zune devices. All that appears to be gone. A new kernal has zero to do with it syncing with Zune or not. Microsoft, for whatever reason, decided just not to support it anymore. Probably a different silo in the company...

Personally it seems like as big a fail as the apple maps debacle, but the marketshare is so tiny that only a tiny number of us will actually complain. Microsoft probably cares more about it syncing with iTunes, and that actually probably makes sense since that's what 90% of people have anyway.

I will miss the Zune client... she was sexy. :)
 

shinygerbil

New member
Aug 21, 2012
208
0
0
Visit site
So... you have a collection of music downloaded to your computer. In what format is the music stored? Is it DRMed? What happens when you plug your phone in and use the Windows Phone app (on Windows 8) or Windows Explorer (on Windows 7) to sync the music to your phone?

This has been covered extensively elsewhere, but for the sake of answering your passive aggressive questioning:

The music is DRMed WMA. As the phone and the desktop software use the same service and the same account credentials, the music should play on the phone. This was always the case in WP7.

There are two scenarios:

1) using the windows 8 app, the content will sync as normal. When you try to play the content on the phone, it will come up with an error message stating that it cannot be played. Some have reported success with repeatedly trying to play the track until it "unlocks" but I haven't been able to get this to work.

2) using Explorer, you simply receive an error message stating that the content you are trying to sync has DRM and may not work with your device. It will then refuse to sync.

In short, due to the change from Zune to Xbox branding, longtime Zune users are feeling a bit shafted. I have basically had to redownload my music collection onto my phone. 😢
 

iamtim

New member
Nov 12, 2012
1,577
0
0
Visit site
your passive aggressive questioning

Keep your assumptions to yourself, I'm asking because I actually want to know. I've not paid attention to the Zune issues elsewhere because they didn't apply to me.

Is there a way I can test this for myself? Or is it too late because it's all Xbox now? Is it possible to burn your DRMed music to CD and import it as un-DRMed MP3s (which is what I'm having to do with my iTunes DRMed music)?
 

shinygerbil

New member
Aug 21, 2012
208
0
0
Visit site
Hah, sorry, I did just assume from the rapid-fire questions, and the fact the info is elsewhere, but if you've not used it before, you weren't to know. 😖

AFAIK it is possible to burn Zune Pass music to a CD and rip it. That always seemed a bit of a hassle to me though - that and I don't have any CDRs to hand! There are apparently programs out there to strip the DRM but I haven't looked into that and don't really want to. I wonder if it's possible to "burn" the music onto an ISO disc image and then "rip" it in an automated fashion.

You might be able to test it actually; if you have the "old" Zune application for Windows (which still works great in W8, and still works with my Zune Pass, but won't play music downloaded through the W8 Xbox Music app) then I would imagine any music you download through that would still be on the "old" Zune DRM system which gives WP8 such issues.
 

iamtim

New member
Nov 12, 2012
1,577
0
0
Visit site
I don't have it, but I'm sure I can find a copy somewhere. I'm going to give it a shot and see if I can replicate the problem.
 

thegoodnotes

New member
Nov 20, 2012
8
0
0
Visit site
I too made the jump from an iPhone 4 - was initially excited to be an early adopter. However, after just over a week, I had to return the 8X and get a Galaxy S3. I think the WP8 does some things INCREDIBLY well - much better than iOS and Android IMO - email management (multiple consolidated inboxes), lock screen notifications, People hub, SkyDrive syncing, etc. I absolutely love the UI as well. Really nicely done. And compared to the pain it has been to set up the S3, WP8 is very user friendly, but still much more flexible than iOS. Lot of great things going for it. So why did I jump ship?

1) Lack of apps. I knew going in this was going to be the case, but once I got the device, it really magnified this issue. Although I found some substitutes, others weren't replaceable and frankly, I don't want to find substitutes for my services. I want to use the ones I already have.

2) Poor battery life on the 8X. My S3 destroys the 8X in this respect. Yes, the S3 has a larger battery, but it isn't even close.

3) Functionality shortcomings. For example, Tell Me. As a consumer, I'll say "Oh cool, WP8 has Siri", but it is extremely limited. For example, I wasn't able to do things like "Schedule a calendar appointment for tomorrow" etc. Really basic stuff if you're including a Voice Assistant. And when compared to Android (and even iOS), WP8 is still falling short in terms of the feature set. And - the OS X sync program doesn't work at all (crashed 100% of the time for me).

Now, I'm 100% confident that Microsoft will be able to address ALL of these concerns. They are very much early adopter frustrations. If you're an early adopter, you've sort of agreed to put up with them to a certain extent. I thought I was fine with that, but when I got into it, it felt that WP8 was still 6-12 months away from achieving parity with options that were already available to me. So, for that period, I'm choosing another option with the hope that I'll be able to switch back to WP8 sooner rather than later. I really hope WP8 can gain some traction despite these issues, but Microsoft really needs to put the pedal to the metal. You can't expect to win consumers with a lossy copy of existing options.
 

iamtim

New member
Nov 12, 2012
1,577
0
0
Visit site
Ok, so, I'm running Windows 8 Professional on a Toshiba laptop. I downloaded and installed Zune software 4.8, bought 400 points, and downloaded a song. I then closed the Zune software (and the Desktop), plugged in my Lumia 820, fired up the Windows Phone app, and synced the song I'd just purchased. I unplugged my phone, started Nokia Music, and played the song I'd just purchased.

Just to be sure, I backed out of Nokia Music and started the stock WP8 Music & Videos app and played the song I'd just purchased through that app as well.

The only odd thing I can see is that doing so somehow changed my avatar here on wpcentral. That's... odd.

I will say that yeah, the Zune software is a damned fine app. I don't know why they changed it either. But... it seems to work for me.
 

shinygerbil

New member
Aug 21, 2012
208
0
0
Visit site
The issue is not with songs which have been bought outright -- they are DRM-free if I recall.

The issue is with songs which are downloaded through the monthly Xbox Music (formerly Zune Pass) subscription; these songs are essentially rented and have DRM. You don't buy them with MS points; you can download as much as you like for free, and they will be playable as long as you keep subscribing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
322,914
Messages
2,242,888
Members
428,004
Latest member
hetb