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  1. cp2_4eva's Avatar
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    You and I have seen our fair share of new WP user complaints and the fact they they are unhappy about some of WP8 shortcomings. WP8 was, at least in my eyes, supposed to be the game changer from the release point on forward. I assume that the new WP users thought so as well hence the reason they changed platforms. With the amount of people we see complaining on here about it, who know how many new users outside are also complaining about some of the very same things and possibly reverted back to their previous OS. Although true WP people know what internals have been changed and the potential of the future update features, MS didn't release some things that some people feel is important to have on a smartphone this day in age. I believe there is a chunk of people that MS has failed to grab early on especially during this holiday season. What do you think? MS bomb? Or MS success of a release?
  2. shinygerbil's Avatar
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    #2  
    We already have half a dozen "did MS drop the ball" threads! But that in itself is your answer. :P
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  3. StevesBalls's Avatar
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    #3  
    WP8 was supposed to be a big leap forward for the Windows Phone platform. The users expected this and the platform itself needed that. None of that happened so far. The worrisome part is that there are too many little things MS should have changed or fixed and they just didn't. Unfortunately it shows that MS does not listen to user feedback and they are simply too slow in moving the platform forward which results in the user experience and complaints that we can now see in the forums, both from new and longtime users.
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  4. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #4  
    While I really love WP and have no regrets in coming back to the platform (I went from a Focus to trying Android for a few months, back to WP with a 820), I do feel like WP8 seemed like it was either rushed or even started last minute.

    In some respects, this whole rollout felt like that science project that is due on Wednesday, but you scrambled around on Tuesday to get it started and done. But I guess that's what updates are for. To refine those little things, though it shouldn't have to come with waiting for updates.
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  5. gsquared's Avatar
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    #5  
    The Android folks are the ones having most of the issues with the OS. Unless MS totally opens up the OS there not going to please a lot of that crowd. That same crowd also does not like IOS and BB for the same reason.

    Google and its OEM's are also having a lot of legal problems due to the openness of the OS. They have a very large and loyal following but they also opened a Pandora's Box to acheive that following.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
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  6. ReverendDC's Avatar
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    #6  
    I agree wholeheartedly with you, TonyDedrick. It is so smooth in some ways, yet so herky jerky or tacked on in others. I love the speed an simplicity, but why nit more integration with Windows 8? Why is SmartGlass not functional with Windows 8? What about XBox video purchases (FOR REALS?!?!). How about Skype integration the same way there is WLM integration? Third party keyboards?

    To be fair, MS added in a lot of things that most people aren't going to notice. APIs show up in apps, but don't necessarily show up on your wish list until someone actually makes use of it. The voice command APIs for example.

    I love my Nokia 920, just as I loved my Samsung Focus until recently. I would never go back to an iPhone or Android (or Blackberry for that matter). I'm investing nearly 4 years into the platform all told. But, MS....COME ON, MAN!
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  7. E Lizzle's Avatar
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    #7  
    The number of new WP user complaints that you see on here should be an indication of success, not failure. So there's 100 complaints out of how many units sold? It's like 3 or 4 decimal places out from 1% of sales.

    -E
  8. StevesBalls's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by E Lizzle View Post
    The number of new WP user complaints that you see on here should be an indication of success, not failure. So there's 100 complaints out of how many units sold? It's like 3 or 4 decimal places out from 1% of sales.

    -E
    You'd need some magic Apple sauce to spin that into a positive.

    An indication of success would be if you announced that you sold 5 million phones in the first weekend. When you don't have that then you come up with vague statements about 100% increased app sales revenue and sales of phones four times higher than the last year.
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  9. inteller's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared View Post
    The Android folks are the ones having most of the issues with the OS. Unless MS totally opens up the OS there not going to please a lot of that crowd. That same crowd also does not like IOS and BB for the same reason.

    Google and its OEM's are also having a lot of legal problems due to the openness of the OS. They have a very large and loyal following but they also opened a Pandora's Box to acheive that following.
    the android tweaker crowd is actually pretty small. Most android devices are sold to clueless people who just want a smartphone to get facebook on it. (that and they are pushed on them by greedy phone sales reps). Microsoft has to refocus on new smartphone users (there are still lots out there). Just watch how windows phone plays out in developing markets like China. The US market is already lost to old stale operating systems and defunct carrier subsidy models.
  10. inteller's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by StevesBalls View Post
    You'd need some magic Apple sauce to spin that into a positive.

    An indication of success would be if you announced that you sold 5 million phones in the first weekend. When you don't have that then you come up with vague statements about 100% increased app sales revenue and sales of phones four times higher than the last year.
    They couldn't release real solid numbers because the OEMs were unable to make enough phones/anticipate demand.
  11. StevesBalls's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by inteller View Post
    They couldn't release real solid numbers because the OEMs were unable to make enough phones/anticipate demand.
    And whose problem is that?
  12. inteller's Avatar
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    #12  
    the OEMs. Just like the crapware laptop vendors who are "surprised" at how popular touch screen Windows 8 PCs are.
  13. Coffee's Avatar
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    #13  
    Microsoft sold 40m Windows 8 licenses in the first 4 weeks and it was declared a failure, they could've announced 5m in phone sales, same thing would've happened.

    A lot of people think there's "nothing new" in WP8, that the integration with Windows 8 sucks, that Microsoft doesn't listen to users - complaints mostly based on "what I wanted them to do". When you're a big company, you don't generally take every suggestion made and implement it, you have to take the user base as a whole and address those needs. Sometimes things that make sense for you are detrimental to the group as a whole.

    Consumer desires from WP7 like phone backups, smaller tiles, digital wallet, NFC, higher screen resolutions, OTA updates, sending videos via text, Skype, improved Office experience, Bluetooth file sharing, improved calendaring, easier ringtone creation, browsing the phone file system, backing up messages, subscribing to podcasts on phone, etc - all this stuff was delivered (in varying quality, of course). But that was all ignored because they didn't do some other thing you wanted, or it's not as much as you wanted, or you wanted to do something on Windows 8 that would magically be exactly the same on WP8.

    Yeah, there's a ton of work to be done. There are bugs to be fixed (god help us XBox Music) and the normal improvements to the existing functionality. But it's a month after the release of WP8 and Windows 8, and all I see on here are people abandoning the platform due to various squibbles. We all know that if you want minute and exacting control of every aspect of your phone, you go Android. If you want every app ever made, go iPhone. If you want a new, integrated, cool but definitely less mature Windows experience, stick around. I think you'll be glad you did.
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  14. inteller's Avatar
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    #14  
    horse ****. It was "delivered" but not to the existing users who were clamoring for it. Instead they were left out in the cold and told just to buy a new phone, of which many of the -important- existing apps won't work on, so you are trading one broke *** situation for another.
  15. StevesBalls's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Microsoft sold 40m Windows 8 licenses in the first 4 weeks and it was declared a failure, they could've announced 5m in phone sales, same thing would've happened.

    A lot of people think there's "nothing new" in WP8, that the integration with Windows 8 sucks, that Microsoft doesn't listen to users - complaints mostly based on "what I wanted them to do". When you're a big company, you don't generally take every suggestion made and implement it, you have to take the user base as a whole and address those needs. Sometimes things that make sense for you are detrimental to the group as a whole.

    Consumer desires from WP7 like phone backups, smaller tiles, digital wallet, NFC, higher screen resolutions, OTA updates, sending videos via text, Skype, improved Office experience, Bluetooth file sharing, improved calendaring, easier ringtone creation, browsing the phone file system, backing up messages, subscribing to podcasts on phone, etc - all this stuff was delivered (in varying quality, of course). But that was all ignored because they didn't do some other thing you wanted, or it's not as much as you wanted, or you wanted to do something on Windows 8 that would magically be exactly the same on WP8.

    Yeah, there's a ton of work to be done. There are bugs to be fixed (god help us XBox Music) and the normal improvements to the existing functionality. But it's a month after the release of WP8 and Windows 8, and all I see on here are people abandoning the platform due to various squibbles. We all know that if you want minute and exacting control of every aspect of your phone, you go Android. If you want every app ever made, go iPhone. If you want a new, integrated, cool but definitely less mature Windows experience, stick around. I think you'll be glad you did.
    Spoken like a true fanboy.
  16. Coffee's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by StevesBalls View Post
    Spoken like a true fanboy.
    Don't address any of the points, improvements made, etc. Just call fanboy on people. Typical troll.
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  17. aubreyq's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Consumer desires from WP7 like OTA updates...Skype...improved calendaring...easier ringtone creation...browsing the phone file system...subscribing to podcasts on phone, etc - all this stuff was delivered (in varying quality, of course).

    ...There's a ton of work to be done...
    Clever that you included "in varying quality", but the stuff I bolded wasn't exactly delivered per se. For example, subcribing to podcasts on phone was available in WP7. Improved calendaring? Are you serious? Daniel Rubino chuckled when he did the WP8 OS video demo, stating no changes to the calendar. Also, can you actually browse the phone file system? All you have access to is multimedia folders and not much else (fine by me, btw). OTA updates hasn't received a "real world" test yet. Skype wasn't ready for prime time at launch. How did making ringtones get easier with WP8? I know Nokia has a new ringtone creation app, but that's not an OS feature. BTW, saying "there's a ton of work to be done" doesn't speak favorably of the platform.

    Full disclosure: I love WP and will be moving to WP8. My point is that WP8 wasn't ready when it launched. I think too much weight was put on launching W8 and WP8 at the same time at the expense of the end users. But that is the Microsoft we all know and love. Just launch and patch. Launch and patch.
    StevesBalls likes this.
  18. thekonger's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by StevesBalls View Post
    WP8 was supposed to be a big leap forward for the Windows Phone platform. The users expected this and the platform itself needed that. None of that happened so far. The worrisome part is that there are too many little things MS should have changed or fixed and they just didn't. Unfortunately it shows that MS does not listen to user feedback and they are simply too slow in moving the platform forward which results in the user experience and complaints that we can now see in the forums, both from new and longtime users.
    I bought a Windows Phone 7 when it first came out on Sprint two years ago (it was an HTC but don't recall the model) and prior to that I had an iPhone. Back then there really were no WP apps and the OS had a ton of shortcomings. I tried my daughters HTC Evo and swapped my WP7 to an HTC Evo Shift right away because Android could do things I knew I would not be able to do on the WP7 for the next year.

    When WP8 hit I bought a 920 and let me tell you, for someone who has not really used a WP phone lately (or at all), it is a total and complete game changer. The OS rocks, I can manage my contacts better, the Outlook syncing is much better than my droid, camera is top notch, rooms and groups are awesome, and there plenty of apps. Yes, there are not 100,000 fart apps like iOS, but aside from one or two apps (Zynga, port Chess with Friends please) you can find almost everything you want.

    WP8 is definitely a game changer. If you were on the latest version of WP then it may not seem like much of a leap, but to those that weren't, it's a big one.

    As for many of the other complaints I read on this forum, I find it amusing. Ultimately, if you don't like WP8, just get another phone that suits you better. But don't act like launch issues are the sole realm of MS. Last two new iPhone releases included: bad call reception, poor call quality, build issues, lock ups, freezes, scratch issues, and application bugs. And as for not listening to user feedback, well, I have never had MS tell me I was holding my phone wrong when I couldn't make a call.
  19. StevesBalls's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Don't address any of the points, improvements made, etc. Just call fanboy on people. Typical troll.
    Okay, let's go through your list:

    Phone backups - The implemented solution is half-assed and pales in comparison to the iOS backup.
    Smaller tiles - Yes, they delivered this. Well, at least for WP8. How about those loyal WP7 users?
    Digital wallet - Again, like backups this is a great idea in theory, but in reality dosn't work as it should.
    NFC - Eh, who desired that?
    Higher screen resolutions - This was long overdue.
    OTA updates - Same, plus we still don't know how it will work out in reality. Remember we were promised WP7 updates without carrier intervention too. And we all know how that worked out.
    Sending videos via text - Again, this should have been there a long time ago. And there are better ways how to share videos today.
    Skype - Yeah, we got that. But in what state?
    Improved Office experience - Okay, this one really is important, I'll give you that.
    Bluetooth file sharing - Want me to list all the Bluetooth related issues in WP8? And again, what's the excuse for this not being there a loong time ago anyway?
    Improved calendaring - Not, it still sucks
    Easier ringtone creation - This still sucks too.
    Browsing the phone file system - Long overdue and most people (regular people, not tech geeks) don't really care about this anyway.
    Backing up messages - We've already had this one
    Subscribing to podcasts on phone - Oh yeah, podcast. How's that working out for everybody?

    So most of your points were either long overdue or are over-hyped. I'd trade all of those for a notification center, for example. Or a Wi-Fi connection that doesn't go to sleep (how fraking difficult can that be??). Or the gazillion other things that are missing or broken in WP.

    Edit: aubreyq already addressed some of those, so kudos to him.
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  20. Coffee's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreyq View Post
    Clever that you included "in varying quality", but the stuff I bolded wasn't exactly delivered per se. For example, subcribing to podcasts on phone was available in WP7. Improved calendaring? Are you serious? Daniel Rubino chuckled when he did the WP8 OS video demo, stating no changes to the calendar. Also, can you actually browse the phone file system? All you have access to is multimedia folders, not the file system. OTA updates hasn't received a "real world" test yet. Skype wasn't ready for prime time at launch. How did making ringtones get easier with WP8? I know Nokia has a new ringtone creation app, but that's not an OS feature.
    Thanks for the reasonable discussion. Wasn't trying to be clever or hedge, some of the improvements are great, some are barely usable.

    But this was my exact point in the previous post - nothing was delivered exactly how you wanted it, even if it was delivered.

    In wp7 you couldn't see the phone file structure at all, now you can drag and drop music, videos, etc. You give the common user access to the entire file structure, they start deleting necessary files to 'make room'.

    Easier ringtone creation - drag and drop an mp3 into the ringtone folder. It doesn't allow you to mark in/out for the ringtone. Should we have an actual ringtone creator built in? Sure.

    Calendar - sharing calendars via rooms is my main reason, it's excellent for both family and work, as it works cross-platform. I've found the calendar works better with Exchange at work, also.

    OTA updates - Of course they haven't had a test yet, but it was an added feature that people asked for, again my point about consumer demands from WP7.

    Skype is questionable, it works but kills battery on my phone. It was delivered, but not to my or anyone else's satisfaction. I open it only when I make a call. But it does work.

    On podcasts, I meant OTA podcast downloads. I think there was an app for WP7 that did it, but OS didn't.
    Last edited by Coffee; 12-06-2012 at 01:44 PM. Reason: spacing
  21. Coffee's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by StevesBalls View Post
    Okay, let's go through your list:

    Phone backups - The implemented solution is half-assed and pales in comparison to the iOS backup.
    Smaller tiles - Yes, they delivered this. Well, at least for WP8. How about those loyal WP7 users?
    Digital wallet - Again, like backups this is a great idea in theory, but in reality dosn't work as it should.
    NFC - Eh, who desired that?
    Higher screen resolutions - This was long overdue.
    OTA updates - Same, plus we still don't know how it will work out in reality. Remember we were promised WP7 updates without carrier intervention too. And we all know how that worked out.
    Sending videos via text - Again, this should have been there a long time ago. And there are better ways how to share videos today.
    Skype - Yeah, we got that. But in what state?
    Improved Office experience - Okay, this one really is important, I'll give you that.
    Bluetooth file sharing - Want me to list all the Bluetooth related issues in WP8? And again, what's the excuse for this not being there a loong time ago anyway?
    Improved calendaring - The calendar still sucks
    Easier ringtone creation - This still sucks too.
    Browsing the phone file system - Long overdue and most people (regular people, not tech geeks) don't really care about this anyway.
    Backing up messages - We've already had this one
    Subscribing to podcasts on phone - Oh yeah, podcast. How's that working out for everybody?

    So most of your points were either long overdue or are over-hyped. I'd trade all of those for a notification center, for example. Or a Wi-Fi connection that doesn't go to sleep (how fraking difficult can that be??). Or the gazillion other things that are missing or broken in WP.

    Edit: aubreyq already addressed some of those, so kudos to him.
    All exactly as I stated before, they were delivered but not to your specification. I know things are broken and don't work as well as they should, I doubt anyone is a fanboy enough to ignore the issues.
  22. stmav's Avatar
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    #22  
    So go to another platform if you are that unhappy.
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  23. thekonger's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreyq View Post
    Clever that you included "in varying quality", but the stuff I bolded wasn't exactly delivered per se. For example, subcribing to podcasts on phone was available in WP7. Improved calendaring? Are you serious? Daniel Rubino chuckled when he did the WP8 OS video demo, stating no changes to the calendar. Also, can you actually browse the phone file system? All you have access to is multimedia folders and not much else (fine by me, btw). OTA updates hasn't received a "real world" test yet. Skype wasn't ready for prime time at launch. How did making ringtones get easier with WP8? I know Nokia has a new ringtone creation app, but that's not an OS feature. BTW, saying "there's a ton of work to be done" doesn't speak favorably of the platform.

    Full disclosure: I love WP and will be moving to WP8. My point is that WP8 wasn't ready when it launched. I think too much weight was put on launching W8 and WP8 at the same time at the expense of the end users. But that is the Microsoft we all know and love. Just launch and patch. Launch and patch.
    That's pretty much what happens with all phones. Android and Apple are constantly releasing updates.
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  24. thekonger's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by StevesBalls View Post
    Okay, let's go through your list:

    Phone backups - The implemented solution is half-assed and pales in comparison to the iOS backup.
    Smaller tiles - Yes, they delivered this. Well, at least for WP8. How about those loyal WP7 users?
    Digital wallet - Again, like backups this is a great idea in theory, but in reality dosn't work as it should.
    NFC - Eh, who desired that?
    Higher screen resolutions - This was long overdue.
    OTA updates - Same, plus we still don't know how it will work out in reality. Remember we were promised WP7 updates without carrier intervention too. And we all know how that worked out.
    Sending videos via text - Again, this should have been there a long time ago. And there are better ways how to share videos today.
    Skype - Yeah, we got that. But in what state?
    Improved Office experience - Okay, this one really is important, I'll give you that.
    Bluetooth file sharing - Want me to list all the Bluetooth related issues in WP8? And again, what's the excuse for this not being there a loong time ago anyway?
    Improved calendaring - Not, it still sucks
    Easier ringtone creation - This still sucks too.
    Browsing the phone file system - Long overdue and most people (regular people, not tech geeks) don't really care about this anyway.
    Backing up messages - We've already had this one
    Subscribing to podcasts on phone - Oh yeah, podcast. How's that working out for everybody?

    So most of your points were either long overdue or are over-hyped. I'd trade all of those for a notification center, for example. Or a Wi-Fi connection that doesn't go to sleep (how fraking difficult can that be??). Or the gazillion other things that are missing or broken in WP.

    Edit: aubreyq already addressed some of those, so kudos to him.
    Simple decision for you then, just go to your OS of choice. No need to come here and whine about what you think are WP short comings. Each phone platform has issues. I left iOS and Android because I didn't like them, but you don't see me posting in their forums about why I thought their phones sucked. Because if I did, I would be a whiny little troll.
  25. StevesBalls's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by thekonger View Post
    Simple decision for you then, just go to your OS of choice. No need to come here and whine about what you think are WP short comings. Each phone platform has issues. I left iOS and Android because I didn't like them, but you don't see me posting in their forums about why I thought their phones sucked. Because if I did, I would be a whiny little troll.
    I have the same right to come here and whine as you do to come here and be in denial about its shortcomings. No need to send anybody anywhere. It's cool that you are happy with WP but that does not mean I have to be too.

    And you know, I'm not whining, I'm trying to actually USE the phone. It's just that in some areas it won't let me.
    aubreyq and diego3336 like this.
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