12-15-2012, 08:08 PM #26You get it the day of release, around the world.
- 557 Posts
Iamtim: its not about "whining", its about making a fuzz about an issue so much that MS has to recognize it. If enough people voice their concerns and outrage on a thing like this, its more likely to be noticed and taken as a serious thing. Just staying silent and hopeing MS gets competitive with update rollouts is hardly effective.
12-15-2012, 08:29 PM #27
- 305 Posts
- 12-15-2012, 08:29 PM #28
- 12-15-2012, 11:46 PM #29
A week is a long time in this market segment, especially when customers are expected to make a decision to keep or return their phones within a two-week window.
I'm with brmiller here - back when WP8 was first unveiled, Microsoft indicated that updates would be sent out by Microsoft independent of the carriers. The ZDNet article quotes above seems to refute that early claim. That's pretty disappointing but regardless of which side is dictating terms and holding up this update, Microsoft should not have made a promise it couldn't keep.
- 12-15-2012, 11:48 PM #30
And for cryin' out loud, Microsoft has had Windows Phone for two YEARS in the marketplace now. It should be doing the basics, like OS updates, easily. Apple manages it. Even Google manages it on most of its Nexus line.
At a certain point, the bush league antics have to stop and Windows Phone has to act like a grown-up, ready for prime time OS. Now is a good time to start, and the market isn't going to give Microsoft another three or six months to prove that "it's really, REALLY ready for sure 100% this time, trust us."
12-16-2012, 01:02 AM #31
- 1,038 Posts
Alright, so... first of all, at no point in time has Microsoft EVER suggested that Windows Phone updates of any kind would be in any way independent of carriers. They didn't promise faster. They didn't promise more frequent. What they DID promise was to have updates be made available to ALL devices for 18 months. They also promised that there would be a voluntary enthusiast program (that they haven't launched yet). You can't call it lying, because they never said when it was taking place. You CAN be upset that it hasn't happened yet, but at least be honest and admit that it's impatience and not a matter of lying.
So what does this mean to us?
Well, it means OEMs and carriers are STILL in the process flow of release. Odds are this means carriers can still stall and delay release. I imagine this is why the enthusiast program will exist as a way of letting people bypass those factors... at our own risk.
In my opinion, I think a bigger release of Portico will come before Christmas. I think there's strong incentive to push it out. But it's also obvious that with random reboots and battery issues that there's also a strong desire to "get it right" since clearly WP8 was definitely rushed (my earlier belief to the contrary was wrong).
I'm definitely anxious to get this update. While I don't have any battery issues, I have had random reboots a few times, and I desperately want the constant Wi-Fi connection. I do want it now, and I'd download and manually push the cab right this minute if I could, but I'm also OK with waiting, because well, I don't have a choice. I'm only going to be angry if AT&T stalls the update while everyone else gets it.
PS-- F*** Apple. They own the devices AND the software. F*** Google too. They're a mess of hodge-podge updates. I don't care what they do or don't do with their updates, and you can't really compare the methods fairly. Microsoft's approach is conceptually right... work with carriers and OEMs. In practice, it needs work, because I don't want them to hold the process hostage, but I don't want them doing their own thing either. With Windows Updates, you get a bad hotfix... you uninstall and move on. With a bad firmware, you brick the device.
- 12-16-2012, 04:09 PM #32
Actually, Microsoft stated that updates on WP8 would be carrier independent.
But the rest of the details honestly don't matter. There are two choices: great user experience, or lousy user experience.
In a great user experience, updates go out to everyone in a timely manner. When bugs that cause problems occur, an update is released worldwide and users can go to their phones and download it.
In a crappy user experience, updates are unreliable. You're stuck with a bug on your phone for weeks or months, while others get an update sooner. You have no idea when or even if you'll get the update. You suffer from a well known bug with no timeline for a fix and grow increasingly frustrated.
And come upgrade time, you may consider a platform with a good user experience.
For this update, Microsoft has embraced crappy user experience. And key competitors are doing a much better job -- something Microsoft cannot afford as an underdog.
WP should be providing a consistently best in class experience, not a crappy update experience riddled with excuses.
- 12-16-2012, 05:19 PM #34
No, I am pointing out that crap user experience is crap user experience.
And far too many people are willing to apologize for crap user experience. The responses in this thread remind me of the early Apple users' defense of Apple Maps.
"It will get better. Apple has their reasons for doing this. If you don't like it, just buy an Android."
Microsoft says it wants to compete in mobile. Well, then, it should make sure that its user experience is competitive.
- 12-16-2012, 05:33 PM #35
brmiller is right, especially with the average person. IF these things don't work out of the box then the average consumer is not going to stand for it. They're going to see the iphone or something else that is working properly. They are not like us. They don't see potential, they only want results now. The average consumer DOES NOT HAVE patience.
- 12-16-2012, 07:04 PM #37
Sounds like BR is your average customer.
I'm fine. I know the battery is going to be fixed in Portico (this is my only concern w/WP8 at the moment). I appreciate Microsoft giving the update to select groups for testing, and then deploying a finished product. Shows great initiative to have things done correctly.
I was in beta testing for iOS and I'll tell you that stuff was naaaaasty. This is why I've switched eco-systems...
In the end, you can rant/rave in here, and people will answer because we're all bored at work without anything better to do - but you'll get the update just as soon as I do, bud ;)
- 12-16-2012, 07:35 PM #41
But let's pretend you're right -- even if they didn't, it doesn't matter. Their decision not to release the update is crap user experience.
All the claims that software updates for devices are just so very very hard are also laughable.
Microsoft, on weekly patch days, releases FAR more complex patches for a FAR wider range of devices, worldwide.
Imagine if a serious security vulnerability was discovered in Windows 8, and Microsoft took six months to distribute the fix.
"If you're on Comcast and using a Dell, you'll get the patch now, but if you're using an HP on Comcast, we're still testing with them. If your internet provider is AT&T, we hope to have the update in the coming months. If you're on NTL in the UK, you received it if you have a Fujitsu-Siemens or Samsung PC, but not any other brand, and we have no plans to update other brands for NTL users. Time Warner Cable users will not be receiving an update. If you have internet access through a smaller ISP, we have already pushed the update to you."
How long would you use Windows 7 or 8 in such a scenario?
Exactly. And this is NO different.
- 12-16-2012, 07:46 PM #43
While claiming the "delay" of an update makes WP a "crap experience," you're entitled to your opinion. My phone is working fine, no crap experience for me. I sympathize with those who have had issues and are hoping the update fixes them, but to make a blanket statement as if we're all in the same boat is just a wee bit presumptive.
- 12-16-2012, 07:54 PM #44
Nope, it's just the truth. Inconsistent experience and poor update availability isn't "best in class."
I'm glad your phone is working great. My PCs have always worked great too, but if I needed a security update and Microsoft was taking months to push it to my PC with no ETA, I'd be just as annoyed.
We live in a real-time world. If Microsoft isn't prepared to engage with the real-time world via WP, it's not going to succeed.
12-16-2012, 08:14 PM #46
- 476 Posts
Ever think Microsoft may be having issues with the update? Maybe they want to fine tune things to get it just right so consumers don't belly ache that Microsoft rushed the update out too fast?
Windows Phone 8 has been out just over a month and we are already seeing a pending update. Can't say I've ever seen that from Apple. Windows Phone 7 was out for two years and received three updates.
Mr. Miller won't agree with me but I think Microsoft's track record in updating Windows Phone has been really good. Could it be better, sure. But what out there is free from the need for improvement?
- 12-16-2012, 09:57 PM #48
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