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  1. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #26  
    Google's aim to gain and maintain plurality or majority share in the US market, where most mobile innovation is happening these days.

    The reason that Apple gets "the cool apps" first isn't because of global share, it's because of US share. Since 80% of successful mobile developers are US-based, plurality share for iOS in the USA ensures that the "cool apps" get released for iOS first. Google is aiming to take big losses on hardware sales to flip that dynamic to its advantage.

    Unfortunately for Google, Android really, really sucks and delivers an awful user experience (even in "pure JB" form). They're betting that a focus on deep discount pricing plus hardware specs will make up for that, but I'm not yet convinced it will.
  2. xFalk's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by truthsforme View Post
    Paul makes a lot of good points but this is one that I have to disagree with. Although windows phone is doing better, I think we can all agree it CAN do better if Microsoft focuses more. WP getting the top 47/50 apps from other platforms can be celebrated but why not get ALL 50? For that, I blame Microsoft. The entire WP platforms lacks some appeal because of a very few apps that general consumers look for - mainly instagram. On Nokia's end, I think they failed to execute on 2 fronts, one of which I don't think I can blame them for. The first is the name of their phones causes some confusion to general consumers. This reminds me of the galaxy s II story. That phone had so many different version with so many different names. What happened when the gsIII released? They kept the same name for the same phone throughout. Nokia should've taken a page out of samsungs book in this regard with the start of WP8. The second thing, which I don't blame them much for, is the distribution. The Lumia 920 was a hot item for like the entire month of November, but whenever you walked in the store they were sold out. I'm sure many ppl lost patience and just said to themselves "f**k it, it's just a phone, and it doesn't even have instagram" then went on to buy an iPhone or android phone. Not entirely sure if nokias to blame for this.

    There's a few other things that bothered me that wasn't nokias fault, but I'm sured it stole some thunder from their phones. When you walked to an att store to play with the Lumia, if you wanted to test the camera, it was virtually impossible. Att puts their security thing right in front of the camera....that has to be one of the stupid ways for you to display a hot item. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
    Somebody has an obvious thing for Instagram. And if you want to try the camera out so bad all you would do is ask and they'll unhook the phone for you. Can't balme everything on MS and Nokia.
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  3. rmichael75's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Alan Goff View Post
    Because "making an Android phone" has made HTC bundles of money, right?

    :|
    Frankly, a ton of pple have talked about this.. I would say that If Nokia releases Andriod phone, they will compete with Samsung and not HTC.. HTC is a ok Group. Same as LG.. But Nokia is hardware king. Well once the Lumia line is established, i think Nokia will look into Andriod.. I think MS is not serious or fast enough for taking on Android. WP8 and all its bugs..
  4. gibbyhome's Avatar
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    #29  
    the multitasking with Runtastic is their fault, the app is not built with the true multitasking with windows phone 8
  5. gibbyhome's Avatar
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    #30  
    I would disagree with Paul, Nokia is not circling the drain, and if they were, MS should Step up and stop it right away. Because if it wasn't for Nokia, they would have no buddy pushing windows phones. They have done and excellent job at it .. I even think with the 920 and China, now I can see HTC trying to copy some of nokia with the different color phones, and It looks like Samsung will try something with windows phones soon. seeing android reaching as high as they can go at this point, something new like windows phone would be a good start thanks to NOKIA..
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  6. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmichael75 View Post
    I would say that If Nokia releases Andriod phone, they will compete with Samsung and not HTC.. HTC is a ok Group. Same as LG.. But Nokia is hardware king.
    Sorry, but HTC makes by far the best Android phone on the market.

    And Nokia's current hardware form factor ala the 920, as an Android device, would sell poorly -- especially if Nokia made it a "carrier exclusive handset."

    Nokia's Android volume would be closer to Sony's than to HTC's, let alone Samsung's.
  7. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gibbyhome View Post
    I would disagree with Paul, Nokia is not circling the drain, and if they were, MS should Step up and stop it right away.
    The stock market would utterly destroy Microsoft if it stepped in to bail out a failed Nokia. Look at how the market is hammering Google for Motorola's poor financial performance. It would be the end of the Ballmer CEOship.

    Microsoft wants to sell services and devices. If Nokia cannot sell enough Windows Phones to make it, Microsoft will let it fail, and either sell its own Surface phone, or support the other WP OEMs for as long as there's profit in licenses.

    They're also working to make Office for Android and iOS, as well as a host of other services. Windows "dominating" matters less today than it did in the past. Sad to say, but it's true.
  8. Jazmac's Avatar
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    #33  
    What Microsoft isn't doing is dictating the terms of the debate as it relates to mobile. Of all the things they do right, and they have done a lot in a very short period of time. But what they have not done or is not doing is steer the mobile community on a course they will want to be on. Not us, but those on the fence on other platforms. I for one cannot believe that with as much clout in the industry as they have could be dictated to by the likes of google. In my opinion, the jury is still out on Windows Phone; IE, there is time. Lots of fits and starts but it is pushing into the mobile space and I'm pleased. However, once there, they will need to focus on creating an "enjoyable" mobile environment. The kind of environment that invites development rather that critics.

    The WP software has got to become more powerful doing basic things that those already using mobile are accustomed to. Like setting ringtones, message tones and notification. My pet peeve, finding a decent eBook reader for my Surface & Kindle, Freda a name a couple, are just wrong for the RT. You don't read an eBook like the way they present it. The design language of the RT isn't for everything. Period. Page turns or single pages only. But I digress.

    How do you convince an android user to give up on those basic mobile staples to step backward?

    I don't care a lot for Thurott's opinion as some of you already know but it Microsoft does have time to right the mobile ship but it has to leave the desktop mindset to those focused on the desktop.
    Desktop is not mobile. I don't care how much Balmer is convinced it is or can be.
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  9. crystal_planet's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    The stock market would utterly destroy Microsoft if it stepped in to bail out a failed Nokia. Look at how the market is hammering Google for Motorola's poor financial performance. It would be the end of the Ballmer CEOship.

    Microsoft wants to sell services and devices. If Nokia cannot sell enough Windows Phones to make it, Microsoft will let it fail, and either sell its own Surface phone, or support the other WP OEMs for as long as there's profit in licenses.

    They're also working to make Office for Android and iOS, as well as a host of other services. Windows "dominating" matters less today than it did in the past. Sad to say, but it's true.
    Well, Nokia is doing rather well for a company that was on life support previously. When Windows Phone is mentioned outside of this forum, it is always with the same breath as Nokia. People that know Windows Phone barely exists, talk more about the 920. Not the 8X. Not the Ativ. Like it or not , to the general public, Nokia is Windows Phone 8.

    Oh, and before you label me a Nokia shill, I'll have you know my HTC 8S is on order.
    My next phone...
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    gibbyhome and Klevis like this.
  10. X0LARIUM's Avatar
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    #35  
    All this makes me wonder, if Microsoft's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. Is the boon turning out to be a curse? The very fact that, in spite of all critics agreeing to the fact that WP is far more stable and robust than any other OS out there(wait, there are just two right....) still something is holding WP back. What is that? Is it the security? What keeps a dev away from WP development and makes the same dev make a beeline for iOS and Android.
    Sometimes I even wonder if MS(Nokia in particular) should go the Damsung way...mad marketing strategies that company has. (Quick example: I went to McDonald's and there I see a Samsung counter selling, or at least booking a Note II. I mean seriously? In McDonald's? Really?)

    As for Nokia circling the drain, it is anybody's guess. They cut so many jobs, they sold their HQ, they over-priced their devices for a platform that has barely taken off. IMHO, all this may just be an indication that it IS true...IMHO.

    Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.
  11. rmichael75's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    The stock market would utterly destroy Microsoft if it stepped in to bail out a failed Nokia. Look at how the market is hammering Google for Motorola's poor financial performance. It would be the end of the Ballmer CEOship.

    Microsoft wants to sell services and devices. If Nokia cannot sell enough Windows Phones to make it, Microsoft will let it fail, and either sell its own Surface phone, or support the other WP OEMs for as long as there's profit in licenses.

    They're also working to make Office for Android and iOS, as well as a host of other services. Windows "dominating" matters less today than it did in the past. Sad to say, but it's true.
    You guys keep saying as if , if MS releases a phone everybody will buy it.. We all know it is not going to happen.. It will be worse than what Nokia is able to do.. If Nokia fails, you can close shop for Windows phone.
    gibbyhome likes this.
  12. IainWhite's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Sorry to be Donald Downer here, but RIM is doing rather well, both compared to Nokia and compared to expectations. It just announced a quarterly profit on the continued strength of BlackBerry 7 device sales this past quarter, and expects to post a small loss this quarter due to ramp-up costs.

    It generated almost a billion dollars in cash in the quarter, and has no debt.

    If BlackBerry 10 is even a modest success, that will be enough to catapult RIM back to sustained profitability AND maintain third place in the global market. Plus, technically, BB 10 looks amazing. And, unlike WP8, it will be supported by every major carrier in the US and worldwide.

    I wouldn't count RIM out.
    Well Donald, if you read between the lines,things are not quite so good at RIM.
    They did make a small profit last Q (9MM I think), but that was largely because of a tax settlement of $160MM...so really they lost a lot of money.
    They also lost subscribers for the first time...maybe a one-off but by most is interpreted as the beginning of a trend.
    And...they did indeed improve their cash position, however that was just by reducing their inventory levels.....definately not by making money anywhere.
    Finally...possibly the worst news (if you are an investor) is they are expecting most BB10 users not to use a BES solution, which means revenue per customer is expected to drop in the future.

    I'm not anti-RIM at all...but to say they are generating cash and making a profit is accountant talk - not reality.
    Laura Knotek and X0LARIUM like this.
  13. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmichael75 View Post
    Frankly, a ton of pple have talked about this.. I would say that If Nokia releases Andriod phone, they will compete with Samsung and not HTC.. HTC is a ok Group. Same as LG.. But Nokia is hardware king. Well once the Lumia line is established, i think Nokia will look into Andriod.. I think MS is not serious or fast enough for taking on Android. WP8 and all its bugs..
    "WP8 and all it's bugs" as opposed to Android and its bugs?

    But I think you missed my point. Making an Android phone doesn't automatically mean you're going to make a mountain of cash. Almost every other phone maker that isn't Samsung are doing "okay" in the market. And Samsung is doing so well because they're Samsung. They make almost every single piece of their phones. Also, it helps that they make a whole lot of phones. I don't just mean numbers, but types as well.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
  14. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by IainWhite View Post
    Well Donald, if you read between the lines,things are not quite so good at RIM.
    They did make a small profit last Q (9MM I think), but that was largely because of a tax settlement of $160MM...so really they lost a lot of money.
    They also lost subscribers for the first time...maybe a one-off but by most is interpreted as the beginning of a trend.
    And...they did indeed improve their cash position, however that was just by reducing their inventory levels.....definately not by making money anywhere.
    Finally...possibly the worst news (if you are an investor) is they are expecting most BB10 users not to use a BES solution, which means revenue per customer is expected to drop in the future.

    I'm not anti-RIM at all...but to say they are generating cash and making a profit is accountant talk - not reality.
    That is correct wrt the tax write-off, the decline in subscribers, and the change in the service fees. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/te...nted=all&_r=1&
  15. MaulerX's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by tibere86 View Post
    I hate to say this...but I don't think Nokia can survive without making an Android phone.


    You gotta be kidding, right?

    Ask every Android OEM besides Samsung how they're doing.
  16. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by MaulerX View Post
    You gotta be kidding, right?

    Ask every Android OEM besides Samsung how they're doing.
    You are correct. How can Android vendors compete with Samsung? | Android Central
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    #42  
    A thing to keep in mind is that Thurrot's schtik is to be negative.
    Last edited by Winning Guy; 12-24-2012 at 12:26 AM.
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    #43  
    I'm soooooo tired of this Paul **** guy putting down Windows phone. You don't like it, we get it. Shut up and move on. Don't buy one. Go play with your revolutionary iPhone.
  19. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlynnm350z View Post
    I'm soooooo tired of this Paul **** guy putting down Windows phone. You don't like it, we get it. Shut up and move on. Don't buy one. Go play with your revolutionary iPhone.
    His primary phone is the HTC 8X. He used a Nokia Lumia 900 previously. He doesn't hate Windows Phone. He just is of the opinion that Nokia lacks the necessary capacity to take Windows Phone to the next level.
  20. rmichael75's Avatar
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    #45  
    He along with MS are against Nokia for some reason and are 100% being HTC. I would love to know why that happened.
  21. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmichael75 View Post
    He along with MS are against Nokia for some reason and are 100% being HTC. I would love to know why that happened.
    That's a good question. It certainly has nothing to do with stock performance.

  22. erzhik's Avatar
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    #47  
    Sorry, but one manufacturer can't take the entire OS to the next level overnight or over a year. Right now, majority of people are invested in apps and if Microsoft doesn't offer same apps on their platform, nobody will buy it. Another reason is that Microsoft themselves fail to advertise WP. When was the last time this guy went into a microsoft store? I go into a Microsoft store every week, and all I see is Surface all over the place. The phones are hidden somewhere in the corner where nobody can see them. Microsoft needs to pull their weight, and so far they haven't. The OS lacks simple things like orientation lock and different levels of brightness instead of 3 and many other features.
    In 2 years, Nokia already increased marketshare of WP and in fact they were responsible for many new apps coming to WP that were already available on iOS and Android.

    Unless Surface phone brings something absolutely insane to the table, it won't have a chance just like Surface itself. The reason why Surface Phone won't stand a chance without something truly unique is because the OS itself is the same on all phones. How will they differentiate? Camera? Not a chance. Design? Most likely not. Price? With 920 at $100, I don't think so.

    In order for WP to take off, Microsoft needs to get more top devs onto platform and so far they haven't done it.

    Let's do a simple test to see if Nokia changed anything. Who here joined WP for the first time because of Nokia?
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  23. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by erzhik View Post

    Let's do a simple test to see if Nokia changed anything. Who here joined WP for the first time because of Nokia?
    I had been a BlackBerry user and decided last year that I wasn't going to stay with BlackBerry.

    CES 2012 was the deciding factor for me in choosing the particular Windows Phone I got.

    I had been a Symbian user prior to BlackBerry, and I always felt that Nokia had excellent hardware.

    Both the Nokia Lumia 900 and the HTC Titan 2 were featured at CES 2012. I chose the Nokia, rather than the HTC, due to my past experience with Nokia build quality and unfavorable impressions of HTC build quality based upon what I knew from people who had issues with HTC Android devices.
  24. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
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    #49  
    This is just typical Paul.

    I remember when the Zune HD came out he was all excited about it, and couldn't say enough good things about it. A few weeks later the love affair was over. All these tech bloggers, even Apple leaning ones, try to be somewhat negative about things to leave an opening so they can save face. If Windows Phone dies Paul can say I knew this was coming etc. A Surface phone or anything branded MS won't help, Microsoft does not equal cool to anyone under 30 IMO.

    90% of the problems with Windows Phone are caused by MS not any of the partners. The move from 7 to 8 was a reset, probably due to some internal infighting at MS, and it sure didn't instill confidence in the platform. The stupid non swapable external SD cards in the Samsung Focus, & the laughable screen tapping turn by turn directions in Bing maps in WP7 is all on MS. I think Nokia is the one who made the wrong bet & should have done Android & their own platform side by side. Look at it from Nokia's point of view they come out with their first Windows phones & shortly afterwards MS says WP 8 will be based on a different architecture, & current phones won't be upgradable. Then to really let Nokia know they've been screwed MS doesn't deny that they may come out with a Surface phone LOL.

    I have a Lumia 920 & wouldn't get any other WP because the added Nokia stuff fills in a lot of gaps left by MS in WP8
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    #50  
    His opinion matters not to me.
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