- 12-26-2012, 12:35 PM #151
My point is simply that the trend in design is moving strongly away from this form factor, it adds more moving parts, points of failure, weight and bulk to a phone and the truth is that most people under 30 are accustomed to using a touchscreen keyboard. As the primarily older population who like thumb keyboards continue to age and move out of the workforce, there is going to be less and less demand for them.
Personally, I'm still a bit more accurate on a thumb keyboard than a touch keyboard, but the gap is narrowing with every new phone and it's not about what I like. I also don't like gigantic screens on phones like the Galaxy Note, but I recognize that is where things are headed.
Some people here have a hard time separating what THEY want and THEY like from what the majority prefers and what's actually best for most/most popular.
12-26-2012, 02:18 PM #152
- 299 Posts
I also like hardware keyboards, but the reality is there is just too much compromise (for me anyway). The slide-out means that you either have to turn the phone landscape to type or it flips out at the bottom, adds bulk and is not nearly as like as the BB-style keyboard. The problem with the BB-style keyboard is that it takes up half the screen, and to me is not even close to an acceptable compromise.
- 12-26-2012, 02:28 PM #154
Just trying to see it from their perspective. I don't see it as a bunch of people trying to stick to dated tech, but rather, an option that is better for some people.
- 12-26-2012, 02:40 PM #155
- 12-26-2012, 06:36 PM #159
The thing that amuses me about the Google guys is, despite the supposed "irrelevance" of WP, they end up here all the time, spitting with rage at the critiques of that dreadful, dreadful OS. I'm not going over there to Androidland and sharing my viewpoint (which would probably be drowned out by threads titled "Another Android Virus Again -- How Do I Fix?" and "Malware Lifted My Bank Information And Now My Account Is Overdrawn -- What Should I Do?" or "Phone Bricked For The Seventh Time This Month -- Replace Again?") ;)
- 12-26-2012, 06:40 PM #160
People will argue for it's practicality and its irreplaceability, just as I'm sure they did with the horse and buggy, but time marches on and it will be gone.
Frankly, there are lots of baloney memes out there that tech people accept uncritically. One is that "phones with keyboards are gone forever and nobody will buy them." Wrong. About 30 million will buy them from RIM this year alone.
The second is that "we're in a post-PC era, and smartphones and iPads will completely replace desktop and laptop PCs." Which is, frankly, about as laughable as the "keyboards are dead" meme.
- 12-26-2012, 09:36 PM #163
Nokia naysayers are quick to point out that its dividend, which currently stands at a whopping 6.6% yield, is at risk, and has been for some time. The problem, they say, is that Nokia's bleeding cash in every quarter as it ramps up Lumia smartphone sales, putting its industry-leading dividend yield on the chopping block. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nokia's Q3 ready cash is down from the prior quarter, true; but with over $12 billion still in reserve, the death of Nokia's dividend has been greatly exaggerated.
On the growth side of the Nokia opportunity, there's still its 10,000 patents, estimated to be worth a cool $6 billion, and currently generating $650 million a year in revenue. And Nokia's patent revenue is likely to go up, thanks to the recent lawsuit claiming that RIM infringed on its WLAN (WiFi) technologies. Add in a profitable Siemens division (now a bit leaner after the sale of the fiber optics unit), world class mobile maps, and the fact that the company is netting $222 million with the recent sale/leaseback of its Finland headquarters, and Elop is quickly transforming Nokia into a lean, smartphone-making machine.
As many a fool has commented in prior articles, the sum of Nokia's parts is greater than the whole -- the whole, in this instance, being its current share price. Now, throw in a 6.6% dividend yield on top of what remains an outstanding growth opportunity. That's the recipe for one of the best growth and income additions you can make to your portfolio -- and heading into 2013, that's exactly what Nokia is.
Nokia is going nowhere and is now trending upward from Q4 perceived sales. I expect to see that Nokia sold around 7 million phones in Q4 when nokia announces the numbers on January 24, 2013.
- 12-27-2012, 12:04 AM #166
Not to be Donnie Downer again, but Commodore was consistently announcing "sell-outs" of inventory in 1993 and 1994 too. Turned out that they didn't have enough cash left (due to mismanagement) to buy parts and build product in sufficient quantities to generate cash flow and pay debt. As a result, they imploded.
I'm not saying that will happen in this case, just urging you to take "sold-out products" with a huge grain of salt. There are only two numbers that matter -- quantity and margin per sale. Everything else is less-than-conclusive.
- 12-27-2012, 04:43 AM #167
- 12-27-2012, 06:14 AM #168
- 12-27-2012, 06:56 AM #169
- 12-27-2012, 10:17 AM #170
Last edited by tebugg; 12-27-2012 at 03:23 PM.
- 12-27-2012, 11:15 AM #171
Nokia is holding 80percent of marketshare when it was only WP7 I think with WP8 they're holding about 85percent. Suface phone can be like LG nexus 4 - not flagship that everyone buys, but it would be something, cause the main competitor is still Lumia 920 and I don't think that Nokia gonna give it's all technology to Microsoft.
- 12-27-2012, 04:16 PM #173
Whenever any tech company (including Microsoft and Nokia) starts blowing smoke up my derriere with word games like "four times better sales than a year ago" or "we've totally sold out" while refusing to provide actual sales numbers, it takes me back to my high school days watching Commodore melt-down (which culminated in being there during an internship in my freshman year in college in 1994, when the company actually shut down).
A company that is performing well doesn't need to say "we're selling at 16 times the rate of 25% of the sales rate of four quarters ago." They say "we shipped 7 million devices, sales are strong."
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm steeling myself for the worst, so I don't get caught off guard the way all the Amiga people did when Commodore posted huge losses. "What happened, the Amiga 1200 was selling out, they had such strong demand they couldn't meet it, how could the company lose $177 million in one quarter?!?"
- 12-27-2012, 04:27 PM #174
if you care so much about the progress of shrinking phone thickness, go rip into HTC while you're at it. On Windows Phone, only Samsung has "succeeded" to meet 2012 "standards" with the Ativ S.
As for Samsung being the only WP vendor to release a fully-thin-and-light phone, that's a problem, too. Windows Phones need to be competitive.
Oh, the literal interpretations. The 920 is not so thick that it is a hindrance. Can you still hold it comfortably?
Your hand was also able to hold the 11mm thick iPhone 3GS
Sure, and my Atari STacy luggable that I bought refurbed in 1994 was usable as a portable PC in college as well, but I wouldn't want that form factor today.
Can you put it in your pocket without a problem? Yes, your wallet is probably twice as thick as it.
Again, you're listing an entire set of excuses as to why "the user is wrong." While everyone else is rushing to provide the user with what he wants.
The same thing was done with large-screen phones. "Oh, you don't need that. It's too big. You'll look stupid. Blah blah blah." And Samsung ran away with the Galaxy Note series. They've sold more Galaxy Note and Note II devices this year than Nokia will sell Windows Phones (of all varieties).
It will not impact you in any big way
There is no mainstream demand for physical keyboards on smartphones
RIM's future with BB10 debuts on an all-touch device!
You see, lots of us use our phones for real work... especially e-mail. And I absolutely loathe those typo-riddled e-mails I get from colleagues with Android and iOS devices that have incorrect words in them due to autocorrect failures, with a signature that says "don't blame me for the typos, sent this from my cell phone." I want accuracy.
And while the WP onscreen keyboard is much better than the Android or iOS ones, it's still a compromise. A poor experience.
Remember -- user experience is king. For those of us who use our phone as a tool for work, we want accuracy, always.
how are keyboard smartphones selling relative to slab smartphones?
- 12-27-2012, 05:33 PM #175
Last edited by tebugg; 12-27-2012 at 06:02 PM.
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