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  1. HeyCori's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by AccentAE86 View Post
    Ok, so I have had the Lumia 920 and the 810 for a while now. After spending some good time with both doing everything from reading eBooks, web browsing, browsing photo galleries, playing games, watching both streamed videos and locally stored HD videos, writing emails, and browsing maps, I've come to the conclusion that such high PPI screens are overrated. Can I tell the difference?
    I completely agree with you and a5cent. Before purchasing my 920 I was at AT&T comparing the sample pictures on the 920 and the 820 sitting next to it. I expected it to be a no-contest comparison between the two. After all, people have been saying for years that high rez screens are amazing.

    Did the 920 look better? Of course! High rez screens are amazing! But did the 820 look bad, was the low resolution distracting, was it an unpleasant viewing experience? Absolutely not. The 820 looked gorgeous, especially with ClearBlack OLED technology powering it.

    I've seen other phones rocking 800x480, with subpar pentile LCDs screens that looked absolutely atrocious. It's not just about the resolution. There's also the technology behind it, black levels, type of font used, and even how the UI works with the given resolution. All things Windows Phone and the 820/822/900 (etc) really takes advantage of.

    The whole debate reminds me a lot of this screen comparison between the One X, 4S, and 900.

    a5cent likes this.
  2. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #52  
    As you said, 800x480 is adequate, but HD is certainly nicer.

    It's not about what's necessary though. If we only used what we needed, we'd all have Nokia brick phones with 2" black and white LCD's.

    Personally I enjoy the HD. It makes no difference with tiles, but the difference on webpages is dramatic. I have good eyesight and I can read many webpages without zooming in that I could never have read on my 900. That to me is a great benefit. I can view the full webpage at once and still read the content. Movies and photos also look much better.

    I don't really get the need for more than 720p though. 1080 seems unnecessary unless the phone is going to be 5.5 -6". As silly as that is though, it seems to be where things are headed. Personally I can't imagine myself ever using a phone that big. The Lumia 920 is pretty much at the size limit that I'm comfortable with. 4.5-4.7" or so is it. If anything, I'd prefer a slightly smaller phone with a 4.2-4.3" screen but with the HD resolution.
    a5cent likes this.
  3. #53  
    Imo the iPhone 5 screen is perfect. And I mean perfect! It is my favorite screen size exactly and the perfect resolution. No less, and no more is needed! That is the one and only thing I absolutely love about the iPhone 5.
    Phones: Nokia Lumia Icon, Nokia Lumia 928, HTC Windows Phone 8x, HTC Trophy
    PMP: Zune HD 32, Zune 80, Zune 4, Zune 30
    Tablet: Surface 2, Surface for Windows RT
  4. th0mas96's Avatar
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    #54  
    Well, I had the choice between the 820 and the 920, and I chose the 820, I even liked the display more! it may be a bit unfair, I just like OLEDs way more, but the viewing angle of the 920 just sucks. And I also used an iPhone 4S for almost a year, I can't say that I miss the resolution at all.
  5. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by th0mas96 View Post
    Well, I had the choice between the 820 and the 920, and I chose the 820, I even liked the display more! it may be a bit unfair, I just like OLEDs way more, but the viewing angle of the 920 just sucks. And I also used an iPhone 4S for almost a year, I can't say that I miss the resolution at all.
    The viewing angle sucks does it? What are you trying to do, view it from the side while holding the phone flat in your hand?

    This is such a strange argument to me. IT'S A PHONE. You hold it in front of your face. It's not a 56" plasma TV with 15 people trying to watch the superbowl.

    I can turn my 920 any angle a normal person would look at it and anyone can look at it from over my shoulder and see it just fine. So please...

    That said, I do miss the oversaturated color from the AMOLED screen, it may not have been photorealistic, but it looks awesome. The blacks aren't as dark on the 920, but given all of it's other massive advantages it's more than forgivable.
  6. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    what I'm trying to say is that many people do care [about big numbers on spec sheets], and that Microsoft can't just ignore that.
    We certainly agree on that one!

    I'm guessing we differ only in how we think Microsoft should react to that situation. I'm guessing you believe Microsoft has no other option but to prepare WP for a specs war with Android. Basically, that WP should adopt the same hardware focused strategy of continually and incrementally improving the spec sheet. I would disagree.

    I think Microsoft has two fundamental choices. They can either (a) let everyone else decide how WP8 devices should be judged and stacked up against the competition, likely resulting in a specs war as Google is the market leader, or (b) they can attempt to define that themselves.

    A large part of current smartphone culture stems from Google deliberately choosing to delegate that marketing task to hardware manufacturers. Being hardware manufacturers, it isn't surprising that they decided to compete on specs. That is what such companies have always done, actual benefit to the consumer be damned. Apple has shown an incredible talent for defining this themselves and working market perception to their benefit. As far as I can tell, Microsoft hasn't chosen to do anything at all. They seem complicit in allowing everyone else to choose their own terms by which to judge WP... it's a PR ship without a rudder.

    Stated differently, Microsoft hasn't given the WP community a single thing to hold up against Apple or Android or even BB. Consequentially, against Android, WP must compete based on specs. Against iOS, WP must compete against Apple's image and their reputation for robustness and simplicity. Against BB, WP must compete on security and "enterprise readiness". Everyone else has setup the battlefield on which they intend to fight, except Microsoft. How great is it, that WP must fight every battle on everyone else's home turf? Microsoft is doomed to loose all those fights if they can't offer a compelling narrative of their own.

    I'm not saying WP is inferior across the board. I wouldn't be here if that were true. WP's current advantages just aren't easily reduced to simple and marketable concepts.

    Since Microsoft has so far failed to introduce any narrative whatsoever, many naturally look to the largest battlefield were a specs war is being fought (1080p, 8-core CPU's, 4GB RAM, etc), which really amounts to nothing more than playing into Androids oily metal hands. WP just isn't setup to do that. There is no happy ending at the end of that path.

    To sum up, I agree that Microsoft can't ignore the people who think that specs are the proper way to judge a smartphone. But that doesn't mean WP must fight by Androids rules. Microsoft just needs to provide us with a better narrative. Microsoft needs to make a more compelling argument who WP is for. That doesn't need to be the same market segment that glorifies hardware specs (which is actually quite small).
  7. Chregu's Avatar
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    #57  
    You're right, but in this case I see mixed signals coming from Microsoft.

    For example, if they announce WP8 could support an incredible high number of CPU cores, is this just a fun fact?

    In regards of screen resolution: If for 5 inch screens 1080p becomes the new standard (and it is), why shouldn't Microsoft support that? As far as I've gotten to know Microsoft in regards to Windows Phone, they will just add the new resolution in a future update, when everybody thinks "too little, too late". There were already news (rumors) that companies won't produce a 5 inch WP because of this limitation.

    I always feel like Microsoft is a little late to the game and hesitating.

    But just to remind you, I'm really happy with my 8X.
  8. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    For example, if they announce WP8 could support an incredible high number of CPU cores, is this just a fun fact?
    That is a great example of people repeating what they wanted to hear instead of what they actually did hear. All Microsoft said, is that the NT kernel they ported to WP8 can support up to 64 cores. WP is made up of much more than just a kernel however, most of which is tailored and optimized to run on exactly one SoC, which is a dual core S4 plus. If most everything else is targeted at a specific hardware platform, it really doesn't matter how many cores the kernel supports on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    In regards of screen resolution: If for 5 inch screens 1080p becomes the new standard <snipped>, why shouldn't Microsoft support that?
    I never said they shouldn't. Go back and take a look at post #29.

    I'm only saying it shouldn't be supported in WP8. Why? Many reasons actually, not the least being that it makes many types of apps far more expensive to develop. That is the opposite of what WP needs right now. The easier and cheaper it is to develop apps the better. I already mentioned quite a few other drawbacks to higher resolution displays in a previous post. Go back and take a look. The point is, high PPI displays have drawbacks as well as benefits. Both must be weighed against each other. Android OEM's don't do that. If it looks better on a spec sheet it is a done deal. WP8 supporting three resolutions is enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    There were already news (rumors) that companies won't produce a 5 inch WP because of this limitation.
    Yes, and for the reasons I stated above and in previous posts, it is good that MS didn't cave to such pressures.

    IMHO WP8 should stay as is, while WP9 should adopt 1280x720 and one additional high-end alternative, possibly 1920x1080. I think 1600x900 may also be an interesting alternative, as it would maintain an excellent PPI of 367 at 5", while taxing the GPU a lot less. That would instantly give games on WP an edge over their 1080p based Android cousins, as the WP GPU would need to push 40% fewer pixels enabling either higher frame rates or better graphics. Considering nobody would notice a difference in sharpness anyway, that sounds like a good idea to me.
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-01-2013 at 03:43 AM. Reason: Spelling
  9. kevinn206's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by tk-093 View Post
    My gigantor LCD TV only has 1080p, and it looks awesome. Why do I need that in a little 4 - 5" screen? :)
    The differnce of course is that you are not sitting 12 inches away from your tv.
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  10. Chregu's Avatar
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    #60  
    @a5cent I see your points and I agree. I only would like to say, that I didn't question what you are writing, but tried to bring in the general consumers view.

    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    That is a great example of people repeating what they wanted to hear instead of what they actually did hear. All Microsoft said, is that the NT kernel they ported to WP8 can support up to 64 cores. WP is made up of much more than just a kernel however, most of which is tailored and optimized to run on exactly one SoC, which is a dual core S4 plus. If most everything else is targeted at a specific hardware platform, it really doesn't matter how many cores the kernel supports on its own.
    Still, and I just have to write that, blame my rebellious side, why would they say this with the 64 cores (and I'm pretty sure they did it in a WP8 presentation!), if they don't want to imply they'll use it? Of course, it was showing off (they really didn't have much to say else, to be honest), but if you do that, there will be consequences. And if it is only one guy (me) in a forum, asking what this was all about ;-)

    I just remembered something: Intel was able to train people, that not the tact rate is telling something about the power of a CPU. And this after pushing the tact rate for years just to get bigger numbers. Also many people understand nowadays, that in cameras the pixels aren't the only thing that counts. So maybe there will something similar with PPI and smartphone displays.
    a5cent likes this.
  11. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    @a5cent I see your points and I agree. I only would like to say, that I didn't question what you are writing, but tried to bring in the general consumers view.
    Hey, no problem. We all live in countries that support free speech ;-)

    BTW: tact rate = clock frequency ;-) Very good English otherwise!!

    Agree with your other points as well, including the part about Microsoft showing off. That Intel could retrain people to think of cores as the main indicator of performance instead of clock frequency is also true, but it is just as false. All just marketing.
    Chregu likes this.
  12. travisel's Avatar
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    #62  
    5" 1080p Smartphone standard for 2013.

    - Samsung Super AMOLED 1080p 5" 441 PPI
    - LG AH-IPS 1080p 5" 440 PPI
    - Sharp LCD 5" 1080p 443 PPI
    - Sony Bravia 5" 1080p 442 PPI

    - HTC has a Super LCD 3 1080p 5" 440 PPI

    Don't be surprised to see new top end Smartphone's all using 5" display's in 2013!

    - Nokia Lumia 940
    - Samsung ATIV S2
    - iPhone 5S
    - Galaxy S4
    - HTC has 3 in the making.

    Should see 2500 mAh battery's to power them?
    Marketing or not there coming.
    😎
    ATIV S is LIFE
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