- 03-20-2013, 04:58 AM #1
I think the quality of the Qualcomm dual core SOC is crap. There is a huge number of Windows Phone 8 devices suffering from reboots because of faulty RAM in those SOCs. They should have selected a variant of the Nvidia3 with a 2 plus 1 core layout. Now the damage is done... Also to tie down WP8 to one SOC is a huge mistake.
Last edited by rockstarzzz; 03-20-2013 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Mod edit - keeping titles civil.
- 03-20-2013, 05:17 AM #2
I had a feeling that some WP8 phones with the rebooting problem had faulty RAM but my 920 doesn't reboot so the RAM, and by extension, the whole chipset is fine on mine. In fact I'm very happy with it's performance compared to my ever so laggy SGS 3 with its quad core chip.
03-20-2013, 07:34 AM #5
- 2,777 Posts
- 03-20-2013, 11:16 AM #6
I will chime in to say that the Adreno 225 GPU in the S4 is crap. It's way behind the curve, and for "next-gen" Windows Phone 8 devices to release using it disappoints me because they're "highly regarded" because they're cheap (compared to the other SOCs).
When I say Adreno 225 is crap, I'm speaking to the fact that we have basically received a chipset that is already outdated (by mobile standards of today)...
03-20-2013, 12:35 PM #7
- 434 Posts
I can only disagree to the statement that it is a big mistake to only allow one SOC. With this given, WP8 only has to be coded for one processor, the same that we can also see on apple devices - software designed for hardware, resulting in higher speeds. In contrast, android is pretty slow for its Killer hardware - it's always fun to see a Galaxy S2 lag when an old 3GS has no problems at all (dualcore 1.2Ghz vs 600Mhz Singlecore). imo, this step was very important, since the performance in combination to the hardware on windows phone is really high.
- 03-20-2013, 01:50 PM #9
Over 90% of the reboots were resolved with portico, the remaining 10% might have to do with some faulty SIM trays. RAM is independent from the processor. Nothing whatsoever to do with the S4.
The SoCs in our WP8 devices are not anymore outdated than what's in the SGS3. They all use the same chip.
- 03-20-2013, 02:15 PM #10
I've got an asus transformer prime (with tegra 3 - 4 + 1 cpu(1.4 GHz)- 12 core gpu) that lags, reboots and apps/games keep crashing
and I've got a lumia 920 (dual core - 1.5GHZ) that doesn't lag, reboot and app/games don't crash
what should I prefer?
- 03-20-2013, 02:24 PM #11
- 03-20-2013, 02:32 PM #12
Well if we have reboots, the RAM coming from whoever, then the S4 SOC is the common component on all WP8 devices. So, either it is a firmware issue or a hardware issue. So... Maybe it is a firmware issue... But how many people will flash their phones? Maybe it is a hardware issue... which again leads to the S4... Something is wrong here! Too many WP8 devices having issues and just giving up the ghost. I am not saying the S4 is a bad SOC, but that those used in WP8, might have passed QC too easily.
03-20-2013, 02:44 PM #14
- 434 Posts
- 03-21-2013, 07:43 AM #16
In case you haven't noticed, we are entering a period where the quality of ram is absolutely crap. I don't think I have ever had so many problems with ram in the last 20 years as I have had in the last 8 months. It is across the board, desktop Memory, USB Sticks, SD Card etc. I suspect there was a process / size change on memory chips and it has not gone smoothly.
03-21-2013, 08:35 AM #18
- 1,107 Posts
People need to be wowed and we are paying the same price for Lumia 920 as we are paying for GS3 and incoming GS4 here in Europe.
- 03-21-2013, 09:28 AM #19
Not to mention that Chinese Lumia 920's have the Adreno 320 GPU.....just saying it seems like they rushed just to get devices out the door, which I understand, but they didn't make them future proof in the slightest...
03-21-2013, 03:38 PM #20
- 49 Posts
So all I read here is "My phone reboots so it's the hardware's fault"
I mean REALLY? This is like blaming your desktop Windows crashing on a common fault with all Intel Core i7s. The S4 is not just used in WP8 handsets, it is used in many other models with no issues whatsoever.
Also I find the criticism of the Adreno 225 to be absolute nonsense, comparing WP8s performance in games is pretty meaningless without a well established cross platform graphics engine or benchmark. Simply listing hardware feature sets and clock speeds is absolutely meaningless if the OS API doesn't allow developers to take advantage of them, or the developer simply rushes ports between platforms and doesn't bother optimising. All to often I see devs whine that a platform is "too limited" or "lacking essential features", which are there, they just refuse to learn how to use them properly.
As far as I'm concerned DirectX on a phone is an amazing thing, even if it is some mutant variety (9_3 FL but with no Direct2D? arrrrgghhh!).
03-21-2013, 07:31 PM #22
- 61 Posts
- 03-21-2013, 08:01 PM #23
You are completely clueless. With so little understanding, you shouldn't be trying to invent your own opinion.
In regard to the Adreno 225: I completely appreciate your approach, and in general would agree, but in this particular case I think those criticizing the GPU are correct. It's easier to benchmark a GPU than a CPU, because it's purpose is very narrowly defined. Anandtech has quite a few benchmarks that show the 225 is far behind its contemporary competitors, particularly the iP5. The MSM8960T comes with an Adreno 320, which is what should have shipped in every WP8 device, but arrived two months late. IMHO this destroyed WP8's chance of ever pulling ahead of the pack in mobile gaming, because all WP8 games will now be restricted to running on whatever a 225 can handle at 1280x868... in other words, gaming on WP8 will never be more than 'me too' efforts. That could and should have been different.
The GPU is my only beef with the MSM8960 and MSM8227, which are otherwise still some of the best SoCs available.
For others reading along... The term Qualcomm S4 refers to a whole family of SoCs (system on chip). Using the term S4 by itself means almost nothing. For any real discussion, one really must refer to the actual SoC (see Wikipedia).
- 03-21-2013, 08:30 PM #24
For WP, only MS can make those adaptations, which is surely under way right now.
For smartphones, the OS always needs explicit adaptation to the underlying core hardware! Always! This is not at all like in the PC space. It is also the reason Android updates will always require manufacturer intervention, because on Android, such adaptations are the manufacturers business, whereas on WP it is Microsoft's.
- 03-21-2013, 11:37 PM #25
I'm almost 90% sure the rebooting had to do with the antenna and signal strength. my first 8X had 20+ reboots per day for 3 weeks I tested/though multiple problems BUT I then noticed the reboots were not so random, certain parts of my city, reboot pattern when traveling to and from work and while I was at work.
- whenever my signal dipped to 1 bar.
- certain known dead zones in my city.
- 4 exact spots driving on the highway to work everyday switching from tower to tower (I worked for rogers so I have mapping for all the canadian cell towers.. well as of last year)
- very very weak signal at my work because I work in a casino surveillance room that's reinforced concert and steel.
may not be the source of all the reboots BUT I'm almost positive it had to do with network connectivity.
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