Will Windows Phone continue to avoid to make a File Manager?

[phing77]

It would be nice if we did have one. I understand it is not for everyone. I wish for the advanced users or users who need it, it was available.

OP, no need to defend yourself. There is a reason you want it. I believe the reason there is no file system is more than security. I think it is that they want windows phone to be simple and easy to use while providing a full mobile experience.

Microsoft is kinds in a tough position. They used to market a mobile OS called windows mobile that had a file system along with a whole lot more. People thought it was either too cumbersome or did not need the features. Now Microsoft has studied the market l, industry, and people and believe that this is a better approach.

Android devices currently allow you to do what you desire. Android, though the number one os, is divided with people who either wants and knows the services and the others who could care less and think it is a little cumbersome to manage files.

Maybe we will get a file manager, bur I think it will be a while. Shoot, I am just happy we can transfer files over USB like the old days... A solutuon will come in time.

maybe last few years Microsoft didn't add most feature because they're busy with the new kernel and now new kernel is complete so they can focus on adding new feature. if this true i can sleep better :smile:

 

[Kevin Rush]

My phone is the last thing I want them hackers to access so anything for the sake of security.
Security > Features.

this is why I'm on WP8 because Android is a hack machine and iOS can be jail break for piracy.

Wow! I'm not, and I don't think anyone is, proposing anything, anything at all, that would risk my security, or anyone's. I vote that we all agree to that principle and stop mentioning it as the excuse for opposing things that some people just are unable to understand. That's okay, we don't want to put anyone at risk, we just want to have a file explorer to view and move our files. This is not an impossible idea.

 

[tgp]

So we need to spend our time to make Windows Phone be like android?

That makes sense. Lose the tiles guys! Lets get rows and columns of icons!

We are very much int he race. Thank you very much.

I think it's a stretch to say 3% market share is "very much in the race." But to be fair it is growing.

Oh so lets copy everything from android and iOS, the result - Teribble fragmented OS with boring icons, outdated design and freedom*.

And >90% market share between the 2 of them. It's amazing what "Teribble fragmented OS with boring icons, outdated design and freedom" will do for you!

 

[EauRouge]

I agree with the OP. You need a file occasionally. To see where something is being saved etc. I like having one, and I wish WP had one

 

[Napocensis]

On the other hand, those saying they require a "file manager" are confusing a solution with a requirement. Nobody requires a "file manager". What people do require is a way of solving the aforementioned issue (and many others that can be traced back to similar root causes). The fact that so many people commonly confuse requirements with solutions is why threads like this are a dime a dozen and never reach any worthwhile conclusion. Neither here at WPC nor anywhere else.

Valid point indeed, it?s just that expecting people to be politically correct in these type of forums is a bit too much It?s not like a business analyst is starting to map the issues on a white board right off this forum. Until better terms are coined, the term file manager is the easiest way to express the need for a function currently provided by Windows Explorer.

I am not familiar with kernels and software architecture, structure and such. So let me present you this scenario and ask why this would be so difficult to implement:

- I can add any type of file to the phone, via USB, including .exe.

- The email lets me download any kind of attachments, including zip files containing .exe files. I have no idea where they get downloaded, but they do get downloaded to the phone.

Question: Since all these files are already on the phone, why can?t something be done (e.g File Manager) to see where they are and attach them to emails or download them elsewhere via USB. At least the ones that came via email, let them leave via email. What's the difference?
Microsoft could prevent them from being run, and have them just in View mode. OR, something similar to a DMZ on a network (may not be the correct term), you have it right there but yet is completely separated from the rest of your stuff. Just my thoughts.

P.S. Please send me the link where you described possible workarounds. I will gladly give it a try, anything is better than nothing. Cheers.

 

[jaimeastin]

Downloading and attach random files would be awesome!

Yeah, I can share a file from SkyDrive, by I usually get an email response they they had some issue or did not see the attachment... Which I usually want to respond, "Did you read the email?!".

Even downloading randome files from the net, even if they are not for the phone. There have been times where I needed a file and my only internet connection was my phone. I need a file lets say a network adaptor for a client's computer. I would like to download the file to my phone, then connect my phone to the computer to transfer it locally.

Simple example, but that case has happened in the past...

 

[Napocensis]

I don't see why the file manager is needed even in this case. You can use your PC to sync/copy the files over to the phone since you are not downloading it.

LAMIDEOYE post makes total sense: he may send and receive files once in a while, but if he can?t save them to the phone and needs to go to Skydrive, he doubles the traffic with one extra upload and one extra download.
If he is using the PC to sync/copy files over to the phone, he will only have access to media and Office files. Worse with Skydrive, which only allows you to save few type of files. Anything beyond that is not visible even if loaded on the phone via USB, thus the need for a file manager.

 

[a5cent]

My phone is the last thing I want them hackers to access so anything for the sake of security.
Security > Features.

this is why I'm on WP8 because Android is a hack machine and iOS can be jail break for piracy.

man! we just want to manage our stuffs we don't want system-level file manager

Wow! I'm not, and I don't think anyone is, proposing anything, anything at all, that would risk my security, or anyone's. I vote that we all agree to that principle and stop mentioning it as the excuse for opposing things that some people just are unable to understand. That's okay, we don't want to put anyone at risk, we just want to have a file explorer to view and move our files. This is not an impossible idea.

Actually, James8561 is absolutely correct.

Neither of you understand the myriad ways in which the ability to access files can be misused, but that doesn't mean they do not exist.

Many suggest that hiding WP system level files and/or restricting access to them solves the problem, but that barely scratches the surface of what WP's security model attempts to address. The popularity of that suggestion is likely due to Windows having familiarized people with that approach. However, Window's hasn't taken that route because it's a good solution, but because there is no better option available to Windows at this point... at least none that won't wreak havoc on compatibility.

The Windows team includes some of the most experienced IT security specialists in the world. During this last decade the Windows teams learned their lessons, and WP was engineered with all those lessons in mind. That is why the security models of both OS' are so different. They are so different in fact, that calling both by the same name (Windows) is slightly ridiculous.

So, Kevin, proposing a "file manager" is exactly what you think it isn't... that is a proposal that will vastly increase the threat potential a WP owner faces, by adding possibilities for your (or anyone else's) WP data to be more easily stolen, spied on, corrupted or otherwise misused.

That is precisely the reason why talking about the vague concept of a "file manager" is useless in this context.

 

[Dazzi]

i don't know you guys live in some fancy country. not all of us come from US man! and why i talk about music? DUH? i want to download music from other source(my country has it own online store to sell music) ! that's why! just don't make me look like a troll ok?

I don't live in the US, or a fancy country for that matter -- so lets not jump to conclusions mate.

Furthermore, I'm not trying to make out you are troll, so stop that 'keyboard warrior' stuff with me -- it's not nice mate. End of the day it's not Microsoft fault you can't do what you want to with your phone.

However, if it's that bad I can't see why you would get a WP, that's why we have so much choice in terms of phones and OS -- you get what works for you, that's why I got a WP8.

 

[ohgood]

it almost sounds like the same theory the tsa uses at airports.

zero idea about who is actually flying, so everyone has to pour out their bottled water.

 

[foxbat121]

but people tent to computer-free... that's what OTA update for

you quoted me completely out of context. My reply was to a person who claimed he does not have unlimited wireless data connection. So, he need copy files locally. Please read and think before you post,

 

[Giddora]

I see no use for file-management on the phone at all actually... I had an Android-phone for two years, and I only needed it when I was messing around with stuff... I never really _NEEDED_ it.

 

[ag1986]

Actually, James8561 is absolutely correct.

Neither of you understand the myriad ways in which the ability to access files can be misused, but that doesn't mean they do not exist.

Many suggest that hiding WP system level files and/or restricting access to them solves the problem, but that barely scratches the surface of what WP's security model attempts to address. The popularity of that suggestion is likely due to Windows having familiarized people with that approach. However, Window's hasn't taken that route because it's a good solution, but because there is no better option available to Windows at this point... at least none that won't wreak havoc on compatibility.

The Windows team includes some of the most experienced IT security specialists in the world. During this last decade the Windows teams learned their lessons, and WP was engineered with all those lessons in mind. That is why the security models of both OS' are so different. They are so different in fact, that calling both by the same name (Windows) is slightly ridiculous.

So, Kevin, proposing a "file manager" is exactly what you think it isn't... that is a proposal that will vastly increase the threat potential a WP owner faces, by adding possibilities for your or anyone elses WP data to be more easily stolen, spied on, corrupted or otherwise misused.

That is precisely the reason why talking about the vague concept of a "file manager" is useless in this context.

Please come down here off your high horse of vagueness and explain to us just how having a file manager (with access to specific storage areas and not allowed to access things like contacts, email, texts, GPS etc) would be such a big threat. Please also provide 2-5 specific examples of the 'myriad ways' you speak of (as in "myriad ways in which the ability to access files can be misused, but that doesn't mean they do not exist").

As any fule kno, the primary rule of information security is 'No system is safe'. Just like with Mac OSX a few years ago, nobody has bothered with exploits for WP since nobody uses it (statistically speaking).

 

[a5cent]

Valid point indeed, it?s just that expecting people to be politically correct in these type of forums is a bit too much It?s not like a business analyst is starting to map the issues on a white board right off this forum. Until better terms are coined, the term file manager is the easiest way to express the need for a function currently provided by Windows Explorer.

I couldn't care less about political correctness. My statements are made in the interest of technical correctness only.

I know you are right. Expecting a technical analysis is a bit too much. Nevertheless, that doesn't make it any less essential. IMHO discussing this topic is rather pointless without one.

My point is not that we are misusing the term "file manager" to express the need for a certain set of features. My points are these:

1. A "file manager" (in the traditional sense) won't actually solve the problems people imagine it will, at least not without throwing WP's current security model entirely overboard. Although not impossible, MS is very unlikely to support that course of action, as it would essentially amount to another OS reboot.
2. Anyone claiming to need a "file manager" is confusing requirements with solutions. Going straight to an imagined solution bypasses the discussion of what the issues actually are, which would be much more interesting than the millionth "need file manager" vs. "don't need file manager" thread. It would also allow for discussions of solutions that are far more likely to materialize instead of restricting the discussion to a fantasy "file manager" solution.

.Question: Since all these files are already on the phone, why can?t something be done (e.g File Manager) to see where they are and attach them to emails or download them elsewhere via USB. At least the ones that came via email, let them leave via email. What's the difference?
Microsoft could prevent them from being run, and have them just in View mode. OR, something similar to a DMZ on a network (may not be the correct term), you have it right there but yet is completely separated from the rest of your stuff. Just my thoughts.

Many people can agree on needing a "file manager" because a "file manager" can be many different things to different people. I, for one, wouldn't consider your suggestion even remotely worthy of being called a "file manager". Nevertheless, I think your suggestion is a good start. I suspect that will be part of a future solution, but it doesn't come close to solving all the problems people have with random file access. For example, such a DMZ wouldn't allow me to attach any PDF stored on my phone (or any file type that is managed/owned by another app on my device), because such files are within the MZ! As such, your suggestion doesn't solve the "attach any PDF to e-mail" requirement. That is one of the most common requests and any solution should address that need.

I can also refer you to this older post, where I briefly explained what the problems actually are and one way they might be solved without relying on a "file manager" (unfortunately, my "opponent" in that discussion and all his posts vanished into thin air by the end of the thread, but you should be able to follow along since I quoted him most of the time).

Please come down here off your high horse of vagueness...

Ironic, considering this thread is nothing but a sea of vagueness.

... and explain to us just how having a file manager (with access to specific storage areas and not allowed to access things like contacts, email, texts, GPS etc) would be such a big threat. Please also provide 2-5 specific examples of the 'myriad ways' you speak of (as in "myriad ways in which the ability to access files can be misused, but that doesn't mean they do not exist").

No. I wish it were so simple, that I could just spit out a list of bullet points. If it was, I obviously already would have done so in my first post. I'm not willing to write a 50 page introductory whitepaper on the subject, but you can do your own research on the internet.

What I can do is refer you to this older thread, where I briefly explained some of the problems involved in opening up some file access capabilities on a API level, which would be required for any "file manager" based approach to work. That was just a single example and it was already more than lengthy enough.

As any fule kno, the primary rule of information security is 'No system is safe'. Just like with Mac OSX a few years ago, nobody has bothered with exploits for WP since nobody uses it (statistically speaking).

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Yes. No system is entirely safe. So? No modern computer system is entirely secure or entirely insecure. A very large spectrum lies between those two extremes, and WP lies much further on the secure side than any other mobile OS. IMHO, for a phone, that is a good thing.

Finally, just because WP isn't popular enough to become a target for malware, doesn't mean Microsoft should just forget about security entirely, does it?

 

[mase123987]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread should have died quite some time ago?

 

[link68759]

This forum is very much filled with people who just need to be heard, even if they have nothing new to add to the discussion.
Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express

 

[phing77]

I don't live in the US, or a fancy country for that matter -- so lets not jump to conclusions mate.

Furthermore, I'm not trying to make out you are troll, so stop that 'keyboard warrior' stuff with me -- it's not nice mate. End of the day it's not Microsoft fault you can't do what you want to with your phone.

However, if it's that bad I can't see why you would get a WP, that's why we have so much choice in terms of phones and OS -- you get what works for you, that's why I got a WP8.

you're right on this one. too bad i love WP8

 

[phing77]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread should have died quite some time ago?

 

[anon(5335877)]

a5cent, I'm so glad we have people like you here to explain all of this to us.

I'm also glad that certain people on this forum aren't in charge of Windows Phone development because if they were, it'd turn into Android basically.

 

[vish2801]

MS should permit a file manager on Windows Phone. Sure, most users may not need it, but I don't think there's a need to shut off your potential power-users and send them to Android.

Most users don't need it ?? I'm from India and WP is in good position due to Nokia but people won't be buying Lumias if such basic features won't be added. File Manager with file association is a must here, If you can't manage your file on your smart phone then how can you call it smart ?? The security excuse is laughable, you can't even set any song as a ringtone, you can't watch or send video,audio on whatsapp. If individual apps use individual storage than MS must allow user to let them associate their files if more apps can run the same file. And this cam be achieved only by File Manager with file association.

Somebody jailbreak this fking limited OS so I can fully access my 520. I won't buy any WP in future unless MS addresses such basic problems. WinRT and permission allowed in it should be there in WP. Hope blue brings some charms otherwise 520 would be my last phone and I have to say good bye to Nokia forever due to such kind of limitations.