reality check. wp is in big trouble

[jack6191]

The problem is MS is getting like "jack of all trades and master of none"
First they targeted apple now they target amazon.com to compete in their business..why don't focus on their work and achieve "THE BEST"


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[rakesh1995]

What you don't get is that Nokia is not going after 920 users with 925/928. Most of the people don't update their phone after 9 months. Nokia is going after new customers, which is a logical
business decision.

But its to late to launch 925 0r 928 . smartphone market has progress a lot in this 6 months. they would be a massive fail as 925/928 have to fight with HTC one / iphone 5 / s4 etc. where a lumia 920 fought with HTC one x/ iphone 4s/ s3. Just upgrading to aluminum and putting a xenon flash will not bring the fight to what 920 fought. that should have release EOS by not.
and they should give Windows phone 8.1 before this October skipping this GDR. as this GDR will become absolute and worthless with coming of windows phone 8.1.

 

[rakesh1995]

P.S APPLE launches only a single model yet it just kills..I don't think the whole population buying millions of iPhones and androids as well would be dumb fools..it's their ease of use and better experience that keeps them attracted..not everyone is a tech lover and loves to experiment with different devices.

Yep when i get to know that my ipod with 200mb ram can play temple run and all high end game i was like

 

[boxa72]

Sorry dude, I must say you are being blind fan here by saying that WP is most feature rich, more than iOS and Android.
Some of the features in WP are courtesy Nokia. Don't forget that.

Also, we don't want ten teams doing ten different updates. What is feasible is that MS pull more staff in the WP team to speed up the updates. The timeline you mentioned below is the problem,
as I said. GDR2 is not a significant update. GDR3 - I don't know what is rumored for it. The only significant update I have heard of is 8.1 which is due for holidays/early 2014 and that is too late.
PERIOD.

When iOS7 comes out and if there is no 8.1, people are going to compare it with WP8 and WP8 is going to loose out everytime. It will affect mind share of people. MS/Nokia's only chance of making a big impact in 2013 is to have their iOS7 and Android's next major update's WP competitor in the market at-least before them or at the same time. Anything after that means they are losing a big opportunity.

Exactly! If MS don't get their act together it won't matter that Nokia are doing their best coz they'll just be forgotten. I'm sick of sticking up for WP8 n MS doing nothing to back that up! Their are still 400 million ppl using Symbian but the majority of them won't move over to WP coz for e.g. the N8 is probably more feature rich!

 

[boxa72]

What you don't get is that Nokia is not going after 920 users with 925/928. Most of the people don't update their phone after 9 months. Nokia is going after new customers, which is a logical
business decision.

I do GET it but unlike you, I'm sick of sticking up for WP! The majority of those ppl ur talking about DON'T even know WP exists!!!

 

[jack6191]

There are still 400 million ppl using Symbian but the majority of them won't move over to WP coz for e.g. the N8 is probably more feature rich!

I see this happening..N8 users are happier and satisfied


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[inteller]

Listen folks, what this boils down to is the M&A profiteering vultures are not getting what they want out of Blackberry so they are going to the next weakest they see and stirring up ****. That's all end of story.
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[boxa72]

I see this happening..N8 users are happier and satisfied


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lol ur probly right I love Nokia but I'm getting sick of MS and their design and software limitations. How are Nokia supposed to truly innovate with one hand tied behind their back?? All MS seem to be doing is the absolute bare minimum I don't wanna go to the dark side but I'm fast running out of both patience n options. Take PDF Reader for e.g. I have 2 options, delete or share, WTF is that!!! Sharing MY files to SkyDrive just so I can share a file to a friend is ridiculous, I should be able to send it any way I want!

 

[Dave Blake]

Sorry dude, I must say you are being blind fan here by saying that WP is most feature rich, more than iOS and Android.
Some of the features in WP are courtesy Nokia. Don't forget that.

Also, we don't want ten teams doing ten different updates. What is feasible is that MS pull more staff in the WP team to speed up the updates. The timeline you mentioned below is the problem,
as I said. GDR2 is not a significant update. GDR3 - I don't know what is rumored for it. The only significant update I have heard of is 8.1 which is due for holidays/early 2014 and that is too late.
PERIOD.

When iOS7 comes out and if there is no 8.1, people are going to compare it with WP8 and WP8 is going to loose out everytime. It will affect mind share of people. MS/Nokia's only chance of making a big impact in 2013 is to have their iOS7 and Android's next major update's WP competitor in the market at-least before them or at the same time. Anything after that means they are losing a big opportunity.

Microsoft is not on your time line here. We have all the time in the world there is no need to panic. Microsoft has to integrate 3 OS's here not just one. Google and IO's are simple phone operating systems with ZERO integration issues. What we have with WP integrated with our XBOX, Outlook, Office, and Skydrive is something that Google will never have and iPhone wants but pails in comparison. Its time to stop with the whole it has to happen now talk. Nothing has to happen now what we will have soon enough will be better than anything Google or IOS can compare to. Let us not forget just because you want it now you and I are the minority here the biggest part of the smartphone user group couldn't care less about upgrades or when they come. You like the OP of this thread are an alarmist. Stop the panic WP is here to stay if you like what WP does now just what till you see what it will be able to do a year from now.

Number of updates don't really matter..
And yes iPhones don't really need huge processors
retina displays are really great!!
Now just compare the lumias..
-the 520 is the cheapest lumia or cheaper than lumia 620 yet 520 got supersensitive touch and 620 doesn't have it!
-lumia 720 is costlier than lumia 620 yet 620 got here drive+ and 720 doesn't!
-lumia 820 and 920 are the high end devices yet only 720 and 920 got gorilla glass protection!!
Why is everything so disorganised??
Now my brother is to go abroad and he was to buy a smartphone( now using android)..he chose lumia 720 but when he came to know that it doesn't have here drive+..he got off the mood of getting it!
Where they out of minds while designing the phones or were they drunk or something???
Now androids give everything a user wants at affordable prices too!
Even the cheap manufactures give high RAM and processors...so Is that so that the suppliers of these units charge more to Nokia? Or is that Nokia can't afford? Or is that to keep 920 a higher end device they can't provide a bigger ram to others?
When I buy a device I won't think like "WINDOWS IS REALLY A POTENTIAL PLATFORM AND NOKIA IS THE PIONEER OF SMARTPHONES..THEY NEED ME, THEY NEED US TO BUY THEIR DEVICES TO CARRY FORWARD. THOUGH NOT NOW THEY WILL SURELY BRING GOOD FEATURES ONE DAY!!"
I am not a windows hater..rather I love NOKIA..but does it make sense if I don't get what I want?
If you think iPhones don't have big screens and the like..then let me say..no apple user is going to switch to windows and he/she will only if its only UI which is most important to them..there is a lot much in the iPhones than the lumias..
AND YES IF I AM A PHOTOGRAPHY LOVER I WOULD RATHER GET A DSLR FROM NIKON..I mean to say its not that photography is the only thing users want!
I don't say this because I am an apple user..I already tried lumia but it just couldn't satisfy me!
MS needs to innovate the way people want them too not that people would adapt as per they develop..there are really lots of choices.
And comparing WINDOWS to APPLE is really foolish..apple is already a king of smartphones as well as a pioneer too..if you want to beat the competition you need to be different and extraordinary..
If this continues the same way..only fanboys can save windows!



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P.S APPLE launches only a single model yet it just kills..I don't think the whole population buying millions of iPhones and androids as well would be dumb fools..it's their ease of use and better experience that keeps them attracted..not everyone is a tech lover and loves to experiment with different devices.
And you know what..my friends(not much into tech) they comment that even a simple game like temple run has not yet made up to the store (for 512 mb devices)..and apples and androids got temple run 2 and oz too..there is not a decent video player to play good videos(.mkv format, high mp4) then why should we compromise?? That's the way people think..
And yeah I remember Stephen elop gave a statement..that we don't really need quad cores to drain the batteries faster and to burn a hole in your pocket..and now they are working on quad cores..the reality is they are slow against the competition nothing else and the statement he gave was an excuse...

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More on Here Drive + in this article:
Why don't Lumia 720, Lumia 520 Windows Phones support HERE Drive+? Nokia explains. | Windows Phone Central

Now that the app is out of Beta have you looked for the upgrade?

Nothing is disorganized here devices are designed to hit price points. Consumers are supposed to research their devices before buying them and know what they are getting right? you should know that you are getting your device for less money in exchange for that you are getting and or loosing certain features of the hardware and the SOFTWARE.

Windows Phone doesn't need to compete with Android here is way. Android is always laggy and issue added. I have had many Android devices including most recently a Note 2. One issue with Android is every app in Google play is not compatible with every device running Android. If you download the wrong app you WILL have to hard reset your Android device to get rid of it. Why should I have to install a custom ROM to get my device to work. Its simple here Windows Phone is a better more stable OS that rocks over Android. IOS is tired has great apps but who needs to have to open an app just to get an update. Windows Phone is the most productive OS when comparing the big three. (Windows Phone, Android, IOS)

Nothing Android and IOS can do is worth giving up what Windows Phone does better. <That's a period right there!

But its to late to launch 925 0r 928 . smartphone market has progress a lot in this 6 months. they would be a massive fail as 925/928 have to fight with HTC one / iphone 5 / s4 etc. where a lumia 920 fought with HTC one x/ iphone 4s/ s3. Just upgrading to aluminum and putting a xenon flash will not bring the fight to what 920 fought. that should have release EOS by not.
and they should give Windows phone 8.1 before this October skipping this GDR. as this GDR will become absolute and worthless with coming of windows phone 8.1.

We will have to see when we get real numbers. What I am understanding now is that the L928 is selling well on Verizon. I want to know do you really think that the EOS wont sell? News and media outlets wont be able to pass on a phone with a DSLR built in. Nokia makes great devices and Microsoft provides a smooth stable feature rich OS I can see why Android fans would be worried about the future.

None of this has anything to do with the thread topic. I think we were talking about weather or not Nokia breaking up would cause issues for the future of WP. It is interesting to me how Android OS users like to jump in WP threads and try to convince others that Android is better. I think the main reason that people use android is not because Android is a superior OS but because of Google. People just love Google and are willing to put up with laggy Android just to have the services that Google provides.

Again none of this has anything to do with the thread topic now that we have all pushed our opinions how's about we get this thread back on topic.

 

[jack6191]

lol ur probly right I love Nokia but I'm getting sick of MS and their design and software limitations. How are Nokia supposed to truly innovate with one hand tied behind their back?? All MS seem to be doing is the absolute bare minimum I don't wanna go to the dark side but I'm fast running out of both patience n options. Take PDF Reader for e.g. I have 2 options, delete or share, WTF is that!!! Sharing MY files to SkyDrive just so I can share a file to a friend is ridiculous, I should be able to send it any God damn way I want!

You are very correct..I mean MS is not keeping pace..like the lumias did have FM radio..but MS will make it live now..they have to do things faster that's all


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[Dave Blake]

lol ur probly right I love Nokia but I'm getting sick of MS and their design and software limitations. How are Nokia supposed to truly innovate with one hand tied behind their back?? All MS seem to be doing is the absolute bare minimum I don't wanna go to the dark side but I'm fast running out of both patience n options. Take PDF Reader for e.g. I have 2 options, delete or share, WTF is that!!! Sharing MY files to SkyDrive just so I can share a file to a friend is ridiculous, I should be able to send it any way I want!

I will tell you this I have used a I5 and a GN2 in the last month I hated both equally. I had the I5 for 2 days I just felt out of touch with the world having to open an app every time I wanted to get an update from Facebook or email. That's not to mention how plastic and cheep the hardware of the I5 was. I traded it for a GN2 after 2 days. I had the GN2 for 2 weeks but grew tired of having to reset the radio sometimes just to make a call. Then there were the Bluetooth issues is it connected is it not I don't know anymore. OOPS! time to pull the battery again.

Good luck to you if you decide to change. I hope you are happy with your decision I just don't see how anyone who has ever used a WP could go to Android or IOS and be happy.

 

[jack6191]

I had the I5 for 2 days I just felt out of touch with the world having to open an app every time I wanted to get an update from Facebook or email.

I agree and no real time multitasking is also a
Big pain in the iOS..for social networking WPs are the best



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[boxa72]

I'm not panicking, I came to WP coz of Nokia n the experience I've had with them pretty much since day dot and its not more cores or anything like that $@it that concerns me. Its the little things that are driving me nuts, not that having to hard reset my phone every 2 mths is a little thing but like I said about PDF files, I should be able to send them any way I feel like natively!! If its bothering me, n I'm not a big tech head, its gotta be driving alot of other peepz nuts as well

And the fact we are STILL getting threads about "other" memory is ridiculous! Word of mouth is the best form of marketing and I've converted quite a few peepz over to WP but I'm starting to get disenchanted bout the little stuff (yeah I know I shouldn't sweat but I do)

Anyway I'm off to party

 

[poddie]

Speaking to David Blake, the reason the features are "inconsistent" from one model to next are different intentions and different times of release. If Nokia released the 520, 620, 720, 820, and 920 all at one the "step up" in features would have been much more consistent. But as time moves on, different features are emphasized or expected as standard. As for the 620, it seems pretty clear to me that Nokia designed it as an almost premium small phone. NFC, ffc, relatively nice screen, full drive plus... this has way better features that most budget phones. Whereas the 520 is truly a budget phone.

 

[Dave Blake]

Speaking to David Blake, the reason the features are "inconsistent" from one model to next are different intentions and different times of release. If Nokia released the 520, 620, 720, 820, and 920 all at one the "step up" in features would have been much more consistent. But as time moves on, different features are emphasized or expected as standard. As for the 620, it seems pretty clear to me that Nokia designed it as an almost premium small phone. NFC, ffc, relatively nice screen, full drive plus... this has way better features that most budget phones. Whereas the 520 is truly a budget phone.

Each device is provided at a price point. My post point was to explain that Software is included in that price point. In this case the 720 was sold without Here drive + to reduce its cost. Yes included software like here maps+ which includes access to maps all over the world increases the cost of the device. Here maps gives access to only maps in the area the devices was sold in where by reducing the cost of the device. I think you got that but I just wanted to make it more clear. Rich explains it pretty well in the article I linked.

 

[Mike Gibson]

Here's my two cents:

1. Some excuse Microsoft for the W8/WP8 fiasco by saying that not all 90+K employees work on it. That's not a valid excuse. W8/WP8 are *flagship* products for a $200+B company with $70+B in cash. Whatever those product groups need (devs, support, marketing resources, etc.) should be made available instantly. If MSFT loses Windows then the company is history (they'll continue on in a far diminished role for two decades but the game will be over).

2. A flagship product like WP8 needs flagship, cutting edge hardware. Aspirational devices, not necessarily moneymakers. Not everyone will be able to afford them but they would generate interest in the whole product family. It probably should be a Microsoft-produced device, a Surface phone, with a 5+" screen. MSFT should also help fund the development of an Alienware gamer phone from Dell. Assuming the rumors are true, the Nokia EOS is a step in the right direction ... but I would want a leader in each category (photos, games, screen size). The goal is for phone reviews to list the aspirational WP8 device as "the best" in the category but also say "if you can't afford the Nokia EOS, the Nokia 925 is perfectly acceptable".

Microsoft doesn't appear to understand that this is a grave situation for them. They lose the W8/WP8 battle they are finished. They blew off, what was it, $6B on a freaking internet advertising scam company a few years ago, the least they could do now is invest an equivalent amount in their core business.

 

[rakesh1995]

EOS need to have even better specs just in name sake give it hexa core. heck even if such thing dosent exist make 4 fake cores and add it to it. much like samsung says 8 core. also give it 3 gb ram. even if 1 gb get to waste. give it 720p display and market it as 1080 no one is going to measur so small pixels. ms/nokia need marketing.
they should higher more designer to built better looking device. my 920 feels biger than note 2.

 

[Dave Blake]

Here's my two cents:

1. Some excuse Microsoft for the W8/WP8 fiasco by saying that not all 90+K employees work on it. That's not a valid excuse. W8/WP8 are *flagship* products for a $200+B company with $70+B in cash. Whatever those product groups need (devs, support, marketing resources, etc.) should be made available instantly. If MSFT loses Windows then the company is history (they'll continue on in a far diminished role for two decades but the game will be over).

2. A flagship product like WP8 needs flagship, cutting edge hardware. Aspirational devices, not necessarily moneymakers. Not everyone will be able to afford them but they would generate interest in the whole product family. It probably should be a Microsoft-produced device, a Surface phone, with a 5+" screen. MSFT should also help fund the development of an Alienware gamer phone from Dell. Assuming the rumors are true, the Nokia EOS is a step in the right direction ... but I would want a leader in each category (photos, games, screen size). The goal is for phone reviews to list the aspirational WP8 device as "the best" in the category but also say "if you can't afford the Nokia EOS, the Nokia 925 is perfectly acceptable".

Microsoft doesn't appear to understand that this is a grave situation for them. They lose the W8/WP8 battle they are finished. They blew off, what was it, $6B on a freaking internet advertising scam company a few years ago, the least they could do now is invest an equivalent amount in their core business.

Here is this alarmist attitude again.

1) What fiasco are you referring to? How is WP8/W8 a fiasco? You will need to explain this point to make your argument valid. I can't debate your opinion if you don't explain how you are coming to this conclusion.
2) Less than 5% of the people buying smartphones care about hardware. The main interest of all smartphone buyers is price. Better hardware would be nice for the tech savvy but is not a pushing point for the majority of smartphone buyers.

Microsoft is not loosing anything there is no grave situation here. This is an alarmist attitude you are in a panic over nothing. Windows Phone and Windows 8 is growing in popularity look around read the news. The news is good. There in no time line here slow growth is still growth.

EOS need to have even better specs just in name sake give it hexa core. heck even if such thing dosent exist make 4 fake cores and add it to it. much like samsung says 8 core. also give it 3 gb ram. even if 1 gb get to waste. give it 720p display and market it as 1080 no one is going to measur so small pixels. ms/nokia need marketing.
they should higher more designer to built better looking device. my 920 feels biger than note 2.

That's just silly talk. You make hardware and software to fit the need not show off. The price of a device like you are talking about would be the same price as a laptop. Its a nice concept but is unrealistic for a device you will carry in your pocket.

"my 920 feels biger than note 2." Come on now your just talking to hear yourself speak... Nobody accept you believes that.

 

[Mike Gibson]

1) What fiasco are you referring to? How is WP8/W8 a fiasco? You will need to explain this point to make your argument valid. I can't debate your opinion if you don't explain how you are coming to this conclusion.

If you think that Windows 8 has been well-received ... then we have nothing to discuss. It did nothing to slow down the decline in PC sales and is generally considered a failure. If you have statistics otherwise (e.g. WinRT app sales figures), I'd like to see them. Android alone will surpass Windows laptop shipments this year.

2) Less than 5% of the people buying smartphones care about hardware. The main interest of all smartphone buyers is price. Better hardware would be nice for the tech savvy but is not a pushing point for the majority of smartphone buyers.

The aspirational devices I referred to above are *not* for the average consumer. They're marketing things to create a "buzz" around a product family in the higher-end crowd, which translates to higher sales and interest in the bread-and-butter lower end products of the family. There is no "buzz" around WP8 right now.

Microsoft is not loosing anything there is no grave situation here. This is an alarmist attitude you are in a panic over nothing. Windows Phone and Windows 8 is growing in popularity look around read the news. The news is good. There in no time line here slow growth is still growth.

All the figures I've seen show WP8 holding below 5% market share (of course, I'm sure that WP8 has a huge share in important places like Madagascar and Estonia). If you don't think Android alone surpassing Windows this year is grave enough, AAPL's iDevice ecosystem exceeds MSFT's *entire* sales yearly and they have accumulated over $120B in cash or equivalents.

That's just silly talk. You make hardware and software to fit the need not show off. The price of a device like you are talking about would be the same price as a laptop. Its a nice concept but is unrealistic for a device you will carry in your pocket.

Smartphones *are* as expensive as a cheap laptop. The cost is hidden in the contracts. And for consumer markets you definitely need to make a product people like to "show off". You don't think that when you're in an airport or a restaurant and all you see are iDevices, that has no effect on the purchasing decisions of others??? The herd instinct is strong. In the past all you saw were Windows computers. When the average consumer wanted to buy a computer it was a no-brainer, you got a Windows machine.

"my 920 feels biger than note 2." Come on now your just talking to hear yourself speak... Nobody accept you believes that.

I didn't make the original comment you're replying to but I somewhat agree. My wife has a 920 and my daughter has a GN2. I haven't compared the actual specs but the GN2 "feels" lighter than the 920. I'm sure it isn't but I've always thought the 920 felt "dense". My guess is that this is mostly a perception issue, we expect the larger GN2 to be significantly heavier but it isn't, so we think it is lighter. I have an HTC 8X, which feels as light as a feather and is an excellent machine. Everyone who holds it goes "wow".

You can PM for information on why I'm not just another internet "alarmist".

 

[fatclue_98]

Here is this alarmist attitude again.

1) What fiasco are you referring to? How is WP8/W8 a fiasco? You will need to explain this point to make your argument valid. I can't debate your opinion if you don't explain how you are coming to this conclusion.
2) Less than 5% of the people buying smartphones care about hardware. The main interest of all smartphone buyers is price. Better hardware would be nice for the tech savvy but is not a pushing point for the majority of smartphone buyers.

Microsoft is not loosing anything there is no grave situation here. This is an alarmist attitude you are in a panic over nothing. Windows Phone and Windows 8 is growing in popularity look around read the news. The news is good. There in no time line here slow growth is still growth.



That's just silly talk. You make hardware and software to fit the need not show off. The price of a device like you are talking about would be the same price as a laptop. Its a nice concept but is unrealistic for a device you will carry in your pocket.

"my 920 feels biger than note 2." Come on now your just talking to hear yourself speak... Nobody accept you believes that.

Dave my brutha, you are the only voice of reason on this thread and I can sense your blood pressure rising with each typo and grammar mistake. Let them vent, put on anything from the Prophet Marley and come back tomorrow.